[www.physorg.com]

this is REALLY interesting, I remember hearing something about it quite awhile ago, but just stumbled across this article on it earlier, im really interested to hear opinions on this, would one consider a product made in this fashion, from nothing but a small cell sample from an animal to be considered at least "ethically vegan" I mean, the possibilities are endless... people being able to eat a meat, in which no cruelty is involved, and its actually HEALTHY for them, cause its engineared to be so... yes, its weird, yeah its also kinda scary in some ways, but I dunno, I cant help but feel excited when I see stuff from scifi books I read in my adolescence coming to life within my generation... although printing organs for transplant is definitely cooler than this one...

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

It's still meat, buddy. It'll never respire oxygen to make air for us, know what I mean?

When I hear about this, um, Frankenprodukt, I am haunted by memory of Kazuo Ishiguro's book, Never Let Me Go, which is about what ultimately could happen if biotech goes too far.

Not reading it! Too scary first thing in the morning. I never want to imagine most of what I've read in sci-fi actually coming true, oh the horror!

yeah, it is, although I was referring to ethically vegan meat, as a meat product that requires no animal cruelty or imprisonment would be considered "ethical" by vegan standards, plus if it can end up being altered as easily in the future as they say is possible, like exchanging its normal fat content for healthier fats, then it wouldnt have any of the negative effects of meat on the body... we are probably 20 years or closer away from our first completely ethical meat product, "Happy hamburgers" "Freedom frankfurters" "Slaughter free sausage"... still, I definitely wont be eating it till there is some long term studies of its effects on humans, which is something they also state is needed in the article...

Tamukha Wrote:
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> It's still meat, buddy. It'll never respire
> oxygen to make air for us, know what I mean?
>
> When I hear about this, um, Frankenprodukt, I am
> haunted by memory of Kazuo Ishiguro's book, Never
> Let Me Go, which is about what ultimately could
> happen if biotech goes too far.

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Look, we don't need biomanufactured meat--we already have actual meat and it's a horrendous enough problem as it is. And it is presumptuous to think that the global livestock/slaughterhouse complex will willingly and quickly adopt this production method. They have waaaaay too much invested in the traditonal way of raising animals, and waaaaay too much power and control over manufacturing to allow an alternative to become acceptable. The enormousness(and enormity) of what would have to be done to all traditonally raised livestock boggles the mind. Apart from logistics, my problem with this is that it encourages craven parsing: I'm not eating meat. Even though it is biologically meat. But I'm not eating meat. You cannot have it both ways--it's flesh or it isn't. The human is ethically undisciplined enough.

hmmm, I guess it does depend allot on how some one looks at it, to me, if it requires no cruelty to the animal to produce, an it has none of the negative effects on health, then there remains no reason not to eat it, unless one just doesn't want to, doesn't like it, or the idea of it... then that's their choice, I think we DO NEED bio manufactured meat, so those who enjoy eating meat and don't care about the effects on their health, can in the future enjoy a cruelty free, healthy substitute for meat an animal has to be slaughtered for, you dont want to eat it, thats fine, I think it would take allot for them to convince me to try it...

And your right, the current meat industry wouldn't just give up the ghost and hand things over to the lab created meat makers...not without a fight, but im not talking about today, or tomorrow, or next week, or next year, im talking over the next 20-50 years, a product that eventually if they can make it cheap enough, would destroy the conventional producers of meat products, not only erasing the majority of animal cruelty on the planet, but also reducing a huge portion of the negative impact we have on the environment by raising animals for food...

Im not saying you should eat it, or that anyone should, Im just saying that it sure as heck seems like the best potential middle ground between people who wanna eat meat and those who don't I have ever even heard of...

And tell me, what makes it meat? its protein content? its chemical composition? its texture? If its textured like meat, flavored like meat, but has none of the negative health effects and doesn't involve the harming of any animal, what makes it different than eating a handful of peanuts, other than the texture and flavor? or for that matter, a veggie dog...I had these veggie pretzel dogs awhile ago, tasted like meat and had the consistency of meat, but it wasn't meat, right? or veggie pepperoni? tastes like pepperoni, looks like it, but no meat... (still not healthy for ya though...lol) is that considered meat ethically?

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

i could only read a few paragraphs
then i felt like ... yuck

will read the rest later
i think i was born to be vegan

Im not fond of meat either, except fish I have to admit, but yeah, I got the same "yuck" reaction, but its the idea of all the possibilities and changes something like this could bring about if i ts successful and safe in the long run...ya know what I mean?

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Curator,

What I am saying is that I don't believe this will ever become normative. So in the future, we will still have horrendously kept and slaughtered meat livestock and proprietarily formulated, expensive, lab-generated meat. Your confidence that the latter will someday be considered a viable replacement for the former is good. Based on what I know of industry, I don't feel that way, unfortunately.

I agree, it wont be unless a few requirements are met first, if they can make it taste EXACTLY like farm raised meat, or better, textured the same, and then above all else, cheaper than conventional meat, THEN it will work... at the very least it would most likely drive most people who raise meat animals out of business, and those who remain will have to produce a higher quality meat, most likely free range, and with more ethical slaughter practices than are currently being practiced by most, no matter how far it goes, as long as this stuff doesnt end up causing some weird side effects from consumption, I think it will lead to at least a BETTER situation than we are in right now I believe... I do think it would replace conventional meat almost entirely somewhere down the line, maybe not even in our lifetimes, but if its cheaper and tastes the same but is healthier, its only a matter of time...

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Ick. That sounds disgusting. I find less objection with humanely raised organic meats than with the ultra-engineered imitation food product. But, then I'm not vegan.

I agree, with what it is at the moment, Im just excited about the potential, as at the moment it sounds rather disgusting...lol

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?