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Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: banana who ()
Date: January 12, 2012 02:27AM

This is the second baby of theirs to die this way! WTF?!

[main.aol.com]

If parents want their babies nearby, why not have something which attaches to the bed?! Why does the baby have to actually share a bed with Mama and Daddy?

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: January 12, 2012 03:12AM

I slept with both babies, ok I still do lol. But I'm not heavy of body, I didn't go to bed intoxicated, use heavy blankets, put tiny baby between myself and another, etc.
Watch the video, she talks about the parent's breathing etc regulating a baby's system, this can prevent SIDS etc. Co-sleeping has so many benefits, and I'm talking in the bed right there beside you, not in a side sleeper or crib in the room.

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: banana who ()
Date: January 12, 2012 03:23AM

Coco, if you don't mind a semi-personal question: you were ALONE in that bed with the baby, correct? Because a big man and a woman and a tiny little baby sounds like a sandwhich from hell. I get having the baby nearby, but lying there doesn't make sense to me, especially if a man is in bed.

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: banana who ()
Date: January 12, 2012 03:24AM

And plus, if it already happened to them (for whatever reason), I would think the first baby's death would have put a damper in the whole practice. D'oh!

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: January 12, 2012 03:54AM

I agree, they were not being smart. I wouldn't put baby between two bodies of any size, the recommendation is against this. I did sleep with both kids at times but I sleep in the middle even now. Kids in a bed together is a recipe for an elbow in the eye at BEST!

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: rawalice ()
Date: January 12, 2012 01:20PM

As my dad used to always tell me, "We brought you into this world, we can take you out!" That poor woman, having that happen again, then being accused. What was she thinking? Did she fall asleep breast feeding? Oh, regulating their system? Sounds like a control freak who would have created a psychopath anyway. Sorry for your loss.

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: January 12, 2012 01:32PM

Rawalice, did you watch the video? Small babies often fall so deeply asleep that they stop breathing, this is a major cause of SIDS. Being beside mom to whom baby was so closely connected in utero can regulate breathing, the actual sound and action of breath stimulates same in baby. The steady heart beat and breathing of mom sustains the life of the baby after he or she is born. Seriously, where do you get creation of a psychopath from that?

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: rawalice ()
Date: January 12, 2012 01:58PM

Babies need touch, with that I agree, but once they pop out, they are their own person. Individuality is an important trait to develop. Otherwise, we'd all be mindless creatures with no true conscience to guide us. Who knows what causes SIDS? I used one of those triangle side sleepers, though, for both of my children, and they got plenty of touch, in a front carrier during the day. (I didn't watch the whole thing, I went by your assessment. Thank you, by the way.)

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: January 12, 2012 02:13PM

Don't you think those concepts are a bit advanced for a newborn? I agree that the development of autonomy is essential to a healthy human mind but we're talking about a tiny little thing, can't hold it's head up, can't feed itself, has no language, no bowel or urinary control, no teeth, is completely helpless, even forgets how to breathe! There's time enough to think about independence once a child is actually able to control some aspect of their physical being. Until they they might as well be still attached to mom.
Amazingly enough, due to the development of our large brains our young are born about 6 months premature as compared to other primates. Evolution favoured women who survived childbirth by going through it earlier and earlier, those who went full term could never have passed a baby of that size through the birth canal and died. So our young are not even fully formed and developed when they are born, they are completely helpless as no other creature on the face of the earth is. I think they should be in contact with mama constantly until they are able to at least hold up their own heads and sit up unassisted. That's not always possible but it can be done quite a bit, sleep time included.

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: vermontnl ()
Date: January 12, 2012 02:49PM

I had my son sleep on his own mini futon right next to mine and his father's futon. This made it easy to breast feed and for me to sleep indepenedently after feeding.

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: rawalice ()
Date: January 12, 2012 06:29PM

Well, coco, I understand where you're coming from, but at the same time, the term "smothering with love" comes to mind for this particular subject. Plus, daddy needs some attention too! (If he's around.) You know how guys are! I don't know, maybe even babies need some alone time too.

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: banana who ()
Date: January 12, 2012 10:17PM

LOL! "Daddy needs some attention!" Ha ha...That was the other thing I was thinking about. Am I a prude? I just think it's a little icky to do IT with the kid right there. Even in the same room! I know, I know, in the Amazon basin or the Navaho people or whoever does it like that but...

I think Raw Alice brings up a good point about closeness. I sometimes wonder about whether it's a bit excessive to ALWAYS have the child against the mother. I do think baby slings are very good because parents can do things while wearing them and it's better than a buggy facing away from the parent.

Weird timing: the Chicago Trib had a front-page article on co-sleeping TODAY!

[www.chicagotribune.com]

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: January 12, 2012 10:28PM

I think it's a bit weird to put arbitrary limitations on the needs of infants for no good reason though. There is only a relatively small window of time when a tiny one wants to be held all the time, very quickly they desire to explore their environment and want DOWN. That's when all the fun really happens, oh man.
As for s.e.x. that's up to the couple. I personally didn't have the urge for the first year at least, I can't imagine.
The chicagotribune article was so biased, too silly. There are way more infants who die of SIDS than co-sleeping. I'm not saying sleeping in a crib will kill a child and I'm not saying co-sleeping is safe for everyone to do. You shouldn't sleep with a baby with your arms around them as the dad in that article did, nor should you sleep with an infant if you aren't used to it, are such a deep sleeper that you don't wake easily, and/or are unusually exhausted (that was the state of that father). It's very sad but a little common sense goes a long way. If you're restless or the baby is, if you're not a light sleeper or if you're too much of a light sleeper, etc etc etc, a side bed may be a better option. Honestly, it's not that difficult to figure something out and it's not like sleeping arrangements don't change either, babies get older and more independent, learn to self-soothe, can get comfortable with a night-time routine. People are making too much of this, over analyzing and making decisions that aren't based in their own experiences. There isn't any one right way, it's worth it not to cross ideas right off the list without really thinking about them with an open mind and weighing the options.

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: rawalice ()
Date: January 13, 2012 07:48PM

I didn't actually mean sex, just some together time without baby in the way. Men can get so jealous.

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: brome ()
Date: January 14, 2012 09:21PM

Coco is right. It wasn't until modern times that mother father and children slept separately.

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Differences in attitude toward sleep in general were equally clear between the two cultures. American parents used lullabies, stories, special clothing, bathing, and toys to ritualize the sleep experience, whereas Mayan parents simply let their babies fall asleep when they did, with no folderol. When the researcher explained to the Mayan mother how babies were put to bed in the US, they were shocked and highly disapproving, and expressed pity for the American babies who had to sleep alone. They saw their own sleep arrangements as part of a larger commitment to their children, a commitment in which practical consideration plays no part. It did not matter to them if there was no privacy, or if the baby squirmed at night - closeness at night between mother and baby was seen as part of what all parents do for their children.

[libaware.economads.com]

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: rawalice ()
Date: January 14, 2012 09:47PM

Modern times.

[www.newadvent.org]

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: brome ()
Date: January 14, 2012 10:42PM

Eight in a bed:

In Bud Cheff's book Indian Trails and Grizzly Tales he tells of living under the poverty of the great depression in the 1930's. They only had one room, one bed, and no spare blankets. So when friends came to stay overnite they all piled into their one small double bed, 2 men, 2 women, 2 small babies, and 2 older babies; the adults on the bottom layer and the babies layered on top.

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Re: Court Upholds Charges Against Co-Sleeping Parents
Posted by: brome ()
Date: January 14, 2012 11:57PM

Here's more from the link I posted above:

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As anthropologist Susan Abbott points out, "[Cosleeping] is not some kind of quaint hold-over from an archaic past, nor is it pathological in its constitution or outcome for the majority of those who experience it. It is a current, well-situated pattern of child rearing that is withstanding the onslaught of advice by contemporary childcare experts."

The point is to make a tightly knit family and keep children close. Seventy-five-year-old Verna Mae Sloane writes of motherhood in Appalachia: "How can you expect to hold on to them in life if you begin by pushing them away?"

Why is cosleeping important? Science is just now learning the answer to that question. No one yet knows why animals sleep, but we do have a pretty good idea how sleep occurs. Like most physical states, sleep involves a number of biological or physiological mechanisms. Sleep is controlled by the primitive brain stem, which sends messages to and from the heart, the lungs, muscles around the diaphragm and ribs, and hormone- producing organs - all systems that monitor and regulate the choreography of sleep. In sleep, just as during times of wakefulness, adult humans shift through periods of controlled neocortical-driven breaths and automatic brainstem-initiated breaths. Adults are able to manage the shift between these types, but infants do it less easily. Infants are born with neurologically unfinished brains. They don't develop the ability to easily navigate types of breathing until they are at least three to four months old, and the sleep patterns of newborns reflect this. As mentioned earlier, they are unable to consolidate periods of sleep and don't distinguish between day and night; they also spend more time in REM sleep than adults do.

When sleeping with her mother, a baby reacts to her movements and goes through any number of changes in sleep stages, far more than when the infant sleeps alone, practicing the transitions from one kind of breathing to another. Left alone, babies must steer through night sleep with little training, and no external environmental stimuli or cues. Most babies eventually develop the skill to shift between types of breathing as their brains develop. But for some infants, such shifts may be harder; they could benefit from the external metronome of parental breathing. Cosleeping, with all its entwined movements through various levels of sleep, and its physical checkpoints, may be exactly what nature intended to ensure babies survive through the night as well as learn how to sleep and breathe on their own.

Most parents in Western culture, by opting not to cosleep, have thus altered the physical parent-baby interaction during sleep hours. But it is important for parents who have done so to realize that they have opted for this arrangement because of cultural reasons, not out of biological appropriateness. What these well-meaning parents do not realize is that they might also be putting their babies unnecessarily at risk.

Infant needs and parental responses to those needs do, after all, constitute a dynamic, co-evolving system, a system that was, and is even now, being shaped by natural selection to maximize infant survival and improve parental reproductive success. Culture may change, and society might progress, but biology is modified at a much slower rate. Babies are still stuck with their Pleistocene biology despite our modern age, and no amount of technological devices or bedtime routines will change that. What babies need from parents is to be part of that interactive parent-baby system that evolved for good evolutionary reasons, and which is a biological necessity even today.

[libaware.economads.com]

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