Jonathan and I were talking about a friend of mine who seems bent on self-destruction. This friend has diabetes, advanced heart disease, glaucoma, and a host of other afflictions, and I sent him the video about Gabriel Cousens' 30 day diabetes challenge. For a couple of weeks he was all fired up about it, and was ready to buy Cousens' book and go the distance with raw food. So I invited him over for dinner last week, and gave him a transitional raw meal. He rejected the juice outright as 'too tart.' He ate most of the salad and asked for a very small helping of the vegetables. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure he must have eaten before coming over, because this guy loves to eat and is quite heavy. He then started to tell us about how we were saying 'everything is bad for you,' and he said that rather than do raw food he's doing soy protein in skim milk, and he will never give up his favorite sugary and fatty foods, including lots of meat. And he seemed almost proud of the fact that he takes 10 medications (he's only 55!), including powerful psychotropics to deal with depression. The saddest part was when he said he doesn't need to really stop eating sugar, because his diabetes medication controls his blood sugar count.

We both really feel bad about this; he's a friend I've known for years, and I feel like he's got a very strong death wish. In the past 20 years he's done a tremendous amount of good work as an activist, but now he's losing the drive and slowing down considerably. You just can't help some people. We realize that, and won't try to convince him anymore.

Anyway, later Jonathan came up with an analogy for this type of mentality: 'The Poison Arrow.' Imagine a person who gets shot by a poison arrow. Instead of pulling the poison arrow out of their arm, they leave it in and take powerful antidotes to the poison for the rest of their life. Their quality of life is severely compromised by the poison arrow, and they no longer thrive, but they survive and can continue living..

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

I want to give him a big hug and say I have been there myself!

I have seen my own blood work and medical tests give dire news,and yet I still went on a ate whatever.

Does he have ANY belief in a higher power at all?

My opinions are my own of course,but when there is a situation like this going on it really has come to reaching out to a higher power to instill even the smallest change of heart to want to do the right thing.

Thats how it happened for me.

The sad fact is that there are people who, no matter if they are at deaths door,will not believe food has anything to do with it.They are driven by taste into their grave.

I have no idea who this is but I am sending out loving thoughts to let him know it can all be different.

God bless

Vinny

Poison arrow - well said...

They are driven by taste into their grave. - well said...

I have family members that pout like a small child if you suggest that they try making some healthy lifestyle choices. Most are ruled by their taste buds, & the food that is so addictive when you put flame to it.


I hear the same things, kwan; Given a juice, they complain - too tart/too sweet/too bitter - whatever.

I will make then a delicious smoothie - it is too sweet/too bitter/too thick/too pulpy...

I give up. After enduring years of ridicule from friends & family about my "wacky" food choices, I have relegated them to their own choices..."pass the meat & potatoes, oh yeah, & the coumadin..."

How very sad, but very true...

"Poison Arrow Mentality"....Jonathan may
have coined a phrase.
Remember those old Tarzan movies where the Pygmies
were always shooting poison darts?....WY
I just Googled it and there were no results, so it is
a unique phrase.

Quote

Does he have ANY belief in a higher power at all?

My opinions are my own of course,but when there is a situation like this going on it really has come to reaching out to a higher power to instill even the smallest change of heart to want to do the right thing.

Thats how it happened for me.

For me it's the opposite, knowing that if anything is going to change it's up to me is what keeps me motivated & focused. Miracles do not exist & there is no one to rescue me but myself (and those I enlist support from). Things happen rationally therefore if I do wrong things will go wrong & if I act intelligently & adaptively there is a higher likelihood of my health & happiness.

Most likely, this life is all there is & mine is already 1/3 or so over so I better damn well take care of the rest of it.

This just goes to show though, different strokes for different folks, you (or I) don't know what will work with others, it's not necessarily what worked with us. Good luck with your friend Kwan!

Eaglefly-- I thought about it later, and felt I had not been entirely fair to my friend. I really care about him, and he's a wonderful person who struggles with the effects of a very abusive upbringing that severely traumatized him. He's worked on himself vailiantly, but still struggles with intense anxiety and stuttering, and if anyone deserves love, compassion and consideration, it's him. I don't know what happened to him, but he's so afraid of his parents that he hasn't contacted them in over 30 years, and when a relative tried to contact him online a couple years ago, he was terrified, and pretended he wasn't the person they were looking for.

Yes, he does believe in a higher power; he's very religious. He's very moral and conscientious about other people and has spent years as a social worker for the homeless as well as a dedicated activist for peace and justice for others; he just doesn't know how to care for himself.

I won't give up on him, and I certainly won't stop being his friend. I will continue to send him occasonal articles or helpful videos, but let him make the next move on his own.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

hi kwan

i think everyone has a poison arrow in their lives
i don't think he is any different
what differentiates you from most
is your willingness to give him tools to empower himself
but as it is said
one can show a person a path
but cannot walk it for him/her

wishing him the best
wishing you protection

Nice post, kwan...

Everyone should be fortunate enough to have a friend like you...

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eaglefly-- I thought about it later, and felt I
> had not been entirely fair to my friend. I really
> care about him, and he's a wonderful person who
> struggles with the effects of a very abusive
> upbringing that severely traumatized him. He's
> worked on himself vailiantly, but still struggles
> with intense anxiety and stuttering, and if anyone
> deserves love, compassion and consideration, it's
> him. I don't know what happened to him, but he's
> so afraid of his parents that he hasn't contacted
> them in over 30 years, and when a relative tried
> to contact him online a couple years ago, he was
> terrified, and pretended he wasn't the person they
> were looking for.
>
> Yes, he does believe in a higher power; he's very
> religious. He's very moral and conscientious about
> other people and has spent years as a social
> worker for the homeless as well as a dedicated
> activist for peace and justice for others; he just
> doesn't know how to care for himself.
>
> I won't give up on him, and I certainly won't stop
> being his friend. I will continue to send him
> occasonal articles or helpful videos, but let him
> make the next move on his own.

I commend you kwan,

Is he in counseling of any sort?

Vinny



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2009 11:49PM by eaglefly.

LaV--
>wishing him the best
wishing you protection<

Thank you! It's cool; Jonathan and I have a way of loving people and caring for them without getting drawn into their lives or having our energy drained. I'm come across as a bit of a bleeding heart, but I also screen my phone calls and know how to say 'no'. ;-p I think Jonathan taught me more about this skill than anyone I've ever known. As a blind person, he's acutely aware of energies, and is quite skilled at protecting himself without walling himself off from others.

Vinny--I don't think he's in counseling at the moment, but hopefully he got counseling in the past when he started taking the anti-depressants. I haven't delved into that with him at all, because he only mentioned his depression the other night when he had dinner with us.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

WY--
I reframed it slightly: 'Poison Arrow Syndrome.' What do you think? I think that definnes it a little better.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

This whole thread made me smile .
I smile with empathy in regards to these ( sigh ) self destructive people. I smile at your compassion Kwan. I smile at the mutually shared isolation that those with a level of health awareness can all relate to. I smile at Eagles inspiration for change. I smile at CB's somewhat dry but equally endearing rectitude.

And I smile because of the general care and consideration of everyone on this board.
It's a breath of fresh air to read it all everyone. Thanks for being there

This might sound like a weird question but is this guy happy? He just very well might be,left to his own devices.
I ask this out of a feeling to release a person like this into their own destiny.
Look at people who have smoked and drank and lived to be 100.And loved every minute of it.

This approach came to me and thought I'd share.

Really do want this man to be ok.

In my own healing,I was willing to align myself with my higher power and all of its good qualities and let go of the things that were not the truth of this being.
The lies.The false thoughts about me and others.
One by one the destructive things left me.

I realize this is all my own path,but I also embrace we are all in this together.We have to be.Its how we survive.

Vinny



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2009 06:36AM by eaglefly.

hi eaglefly

u asked if that guy was happy

a novel idea to consider and well worth considering however...

I COULD be WRONG

but if I had diabetes, advanced heart disease, glaucoma and was on a zillion medications including anti depressants, I think i would be just a tad bit
unhappy

i also wonder how spiritual one can be when one it not in balance
i'll be the first to admit that when one area of my life is out of balance, it pretty much affects EVERY area of my life

i wish it weren't true but it is

for me

but just for me

i'm also wondering how happy a person can be who drinks and smokes for 20 years

you can only find out when you try to take away that drink or cigarette from them

THEN see just how happy they truly are

Vinny--
He's very unhappy. He says that he's in a rut and he's upset that he can't stop eating junk. (To his credit, he's trying to take some positive steps to chnage his habits, even though they're probably not the best for him.) He wants to continue playing music, but he's too anxious now to go into the subway and do it anymore -- hasn't played any music in about a year, which really bothers him. And he's having trouble walking, which bothers him a lot and interferes with everything he does. He showed me how his right leg is damaged and he has to take baby steps, walking incredibly slowly. So he can't go to a lot of his activist events. Add to that the fact that the guy is extremely depressed-- he's miserable.

I've noticed a pattern. I have quite a few friends who for one reason or another have opted to take powerful antidepressants. It seems to me that once that decision is made to take them, a corner is turned, the die is cast, and the individual ends up having far less control over their own destiny and autonomy after their mind begins to be altered by the drugs. I consider psychotropic drugs of any kind the bane of humankind and to be avoided at all costs. The physical, mental and spiritual costs are enormous.

Another friend who went through a nervous breakdown a few years ago is on powerful antidepressants, and I hardly know him anymore. When we talk, I feel like he's 'in there somewhere,' way back inside of himself, but I can just barely sense the person I used to know because he's so insulated inside of a drug cocoon. He asked me a few years back what to do about his burgeoning weight and expanding abdomen, and I started to say that it was probably caused by the medication. He went ballistic and made me stop talking, taking it as an insult rather than a simple observation to help him understand his situation. I saw him again recently and he's obviously on another medication protocol, because now he's looking very skinny, pale, and very shrunken, almost as if he's had bone loss.

Wow,kwan
So much of this I can relate to.
I have been there with the meds,and it is by the grace of the Universe I have been able to pull out of that whole system,and find peace.

It is never too late to turn around.
The cells of a body,IMO,all want health and serenity.

You describe a very far gone situation with him,and worst yet it sounds like his spirit has gone dormant,in favor of things that arent helping.

I will surround this mans image in my mind of the healing presence of All that is.
His real self is healed.
It never was sick.

Vinny

Vinny--
I believe your healing consciousness can help him enormously. I will join you. Thank you so much for caring! You are a very special person, and I want you to know I appreciate your kindness.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

yeah
vinny

you are a more compassionate person than me

what's WRONG with me?

LOL

i guess there are areas i need to work on

You are welcome.
I have enormous compassion for people like this man.
I have been helped.
Now its time to help someone else.

I believe by holding thoughts of healing for another person,is at least the very start of a change in something.

La veronique,
come on now, I have read alot of your posts.
You have enlightened ME on a thing or two.


Vinny

LaV, you're one of the most beautiful, spiritually awakened people I know!

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Michael is being held in the perfect image of health,wholeness,and peace.

i'm glad people like vinny and kwan exist in this world

i think that the reason why it is hard to feel genuine compassion
is because i've known people who have hurt themselves due to their lifestyle
and it hurt me deeply too to see them suffer
and there was ultimately nothing i could really do about it

maybe its because when people hurt themselves
it means it is because they are hurt
and it is difficult being around people who are THAT hurt
that they harm themselves
and i feel kind of helpless
in the face of it sometimes

and that is why i kind of distance myself
though at other times it is near impossible to do so

sometimes i don't know who hurts more
the person who harms themselves
or the person who really loves and cares about that person who is witnessing this self harm

i guess it depends on how close that person is to you
loved ones and family members... its especially hard

wouldn't it be grand if everyone lived forever
if you just willed them to?

smile

hey vinny drummerman

sounds like you've come a long way

congratulations on your beautiful transformation

Thanks.
It would be grand if we could will people to health.But I do believe there is an energy,some have called it "ether" ,that we are submersed in and whether a person is in the next room,or the next galaxy,we can send healing thoughts and energy to them.
I have a long way to go.But am alot further along than I was say, a year ago.

Vinny

ethereal realm is where its at

me luvs ether

:-)

I love this thread.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Lets love Michael back to health........

You guys are the white wizards.. or sorceresses as case may be

stay with your love for this person, that's what i would try to do. even sending articles and suggestions is a judgement of sorts (not in a malicious way AT ALL! but it still is on some level a judgement). letting him be with himself and supporting him with listening and unconditional love is a great place to be.
we all know someone like this, someone for whom we can see a clear and definate path to healing that they somehow fumble and lose so easily. in fact, i think we all ARE this person on some level & in some area of our lives and that's why we yearn to help, to facilitate healing for them, to save them from themselves when really the one who needs that guidance from us is ourselves! living a great example of peaceful loving existance with our own self is the very best way to help others i think.
i keep trying to remind myself of this when i use my brain for figuring out what another should do and my mouth for advice instead of using my heart for compassion and my ears for listening.

coco says:

<<i think we all ARE this person on some level & in some area of our lives and that's why we yearn to help>>


yeah. and using that psychology, i think that is why some people avoid helping

its because those who truly tried to help themselves, KNOW how much work it is

and they are only willing to extend that help to others if they see them actually WANTING to help themselves

and they show that by taking ACTion

and if they don't take action

it feels like i am wasting my time

and therefore treating myself disrespectfully

there seems to be a fine line between helping and respecting oneself

it seems that those who show action are easier to help

those who are obstinate

well... why should i help those who don't want to help themselves?

that is disrespectful to BOTH parties