hmmm, well some previous descriptions of some people behavior, sounds exactly like a "troll" such as the MLK is a pedophile thread, that is a classic example of a troll... there are many types of trolls, those are the kind that just like to piss people off, there are also those that try to lure people to porn sites, those who try to sell you stuff, and those who try to get you to a site that loads a virus on your pc so they can steal whatever personal info you enter in on your pc... The trolls who enjoy pissing people off are the most common, kinda makes me sad,lol.

Yeah because there's zero controversy on the main forum, right? It's all benign and peaceful and always has been.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curator,
>
> It wasn't a matter of not understanding others'
> points of view--it was of understanding them well,
> finding them insupportable, and not being able to
> keep the discussion theoretical. This is in
> direct opposition to the tone of the main forum,
> or juicing forum, or recipe forum, or OT forum,
> where we talk about non theoretical things, like
> what we ate today or the music we're listening to.
> With the exception of occasional OT topics,
> there's not much room for controversy when
> practical things and personal lifestyle
> experiences are being discussed. The worst it
> gets is, "IMO, we should be eating more fruit than
> greens." "Well, IMO, we should be eating more
> greens."

LOL

Lois! You're back! Long time no see!

Yes, welcome back!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2014 11:11PM by KidRaw.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> banana and curator, here's how it went down, from
> my perspective: the politics forum was becoming
> overwhelmed with stuff that appeared to be
> deliberately phrased to inflame and/or even
> attract hate speech - for example, a topic IN CAPS
> claiming that Martin Luther King was a pedophile
> (on MLK's birthday), posted by a newcomer who
> apparently had never posted on a raw food issue.
> Several inflammatory accusations were coming in on
> a daily basis - on the topic lines, so that anyone
> who went to the forum would have to see them.
>
> In fact, this website was starting to come up in
> google searches for subjects more often found on
> white supremacy websites.
>
> It would have been tremendously difficult and
> time-consuming for any monitor to determine which
> posts crossed the line between simple theoretical
> discussion and deliberate inflamatory hate speech.
>
>
> And there simply was not enough time in the day
> for other posters to reply to all the inflammatory
> posts. Ignoring those posts just seemed to leave
> the entire forum in the hands of those who shared
> such views.
>
> On some days, nearly the entire page of topics was
> taken up by brand new inflammatory posts.
>
> In my personal view, it left an awkward and
> inaccurate impression of people who chose a raw
> food lifestyle.
>
> Some of us, including me, emailed our concerns to
> the owner of this website. The last straw for me
> was the MLK thread, especially after seeing a film
> on apartheid South Africa the night before. Under
> the circumstances, I think it was a good decision
> to shut the forum down.



Thanks!

Well, you're welcome!

BTW, the type of adoption definitely involved in the Patricia/Paul situation is known as an "adult adoption", available in California & several other states, whereby a person at least 10 years older than the adoptee, subject to approval by the Court, can adopt another adult, thus severing the adoptee's legal relationship to his or her biological parents, whether living or dead.(I worked for a California attorney decades ago who handled such an adoption.)

Although it sounds odd, its main purpose (clearly to me) is/or was to very legally avoid most of the stiff California Inheritance Taxes on any assets bequeathed to a non-close relative/adoptee at the adoptor's death, should that event occur first. However, since California voters voted out the California Inheritance Tax in 1982, I'm guessing that perhaps that strategy is used far less often today than it was pre-1982. Bragg signed his Last Will in 1958 & died in 1976.

Just a bit of useless trivia...

If the moderator agrees with you, you can do whatever you want. If he doesn't, you get banned. That's the only rule that matters on this site and all of its forums.

Wow, that's kind of harsh. But I guess I can see why you might think this. There are lots of people here that I don't agree with, and they have not been banned.

I think we all know that at the very least you're incredibly inconsistent when it comes to monitoring and dealing with forum policy. That inconsistency often appears to be influenced by bias. You have zero problem with certain people screaming profanities and name-calling over and over again. For example, people who share your opinion on Ebola are allowed to be abusive with zero response from you. Nevermind that they totally break with forum policy regarding "compassion, kindness, respect, patience..." or that they create a completely unpeaceful environment. All that matters is that they are on your side. That appears to be the impunity criteria these days. In the past it was necessary to be a member of the inner-circle that included a few highly temperamental and downright mean long-term contributors.

If things go as usual, this is where you suggest that I should be thanking you for everything that you do instead of focusing on the negative. Well, I have thanked you on multiple occasions. The fact remains that you allow abusive people/friends to run rampant in here and you have for years. Should I thank you for that too?

By the way, thanks for installing the editing tools. Now one of your buds can turn up the decibels on his shouting and name-calling to completely insufferable levels.

As I said not long ago, I "cherish" the knowledge that some people provide to this site regarding health and nutrition. Unfortunately, having to wade through the unenlightened policy violations has become tiresome, to say the least.

So, are you going to make this a safe place for people to learn about health and nutrition or are you going to allow it to remain a digital insane asylum replete with bullies who bash anyone who disagrees with them? What about maintaining an atmosphere of healthy dialogue where people can peacefully be themselves without having to worry about repercussions?



Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, that's kind of harsh. But I guess I can see
> why you might think this. There are lots of people
> here that I don't agree with, and they have not
> been banned.

<<<The fact remains that you allow abusive people/friends to run rampant in here and you have for years.>>>

WHAT A JOKE!!!

YOU (HH/Eric) ARE ONE OF THE MOST ABUSIVE PEOPLE ON THIS WEBSITE!!!

I've kept an ongoing list of all of our infractions just so I could understand you better - would you like for me to post them?

I've been tempted many times, but you are obviously in a lot of PAIN and now I'm thinking about throwing your SHADOW in your face for your own good, of course.

Are you ready for a wake up call or do I even have to bother?

First of all, my reactions are just that, reactions. They're not unprovoked. I would gladly urge you to produce your evidence, but I know for a fact that you would present it in a highly biased manner, i.e. you would not show the abusive behavior that I was responding to. That being said, please prove to me where I've ever come here on a daily basis screaming "bull$h!t" at people and referring to them as "fools," "idiots," and "shills." Comparing my deeds to yours is a wild and fantasy-like exaggeration on your part.

Secondly, you will never understand me. Why would you even care to examine me like that?

Prana, isn't the fact that you have a poster on here who keeps files on other posters and then threatens them with those files just a little creepy and abusive? Is that supposed to foster an environment of peace and healing? Isn't this a perfect example of what I'm talking about?


John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <<>>
>
> WHAT A JOKE!!!
>
> YOU (HH/Eric) ARE ONE OF THE MOST ABUSIVE PEOPLE
> ON THIS WEBSITE!!!
>
> I've kept an ongoing list of all of our
> infractions just so I could understand you better
> - would you like for me to post them?
>
> I've been tempted many times, but you are
> obviously in a lot of PAIN and now I'm thinking
> about throwing your SHADOW in your face for your
> own good, of course.
>
> Are you ready for a wake up call or do I even have
> to bother?

HH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First of all, my reactions are just that,
> reactions. They're not unprovoked. I would gladly
> urge you to produce your evidence, but I know for
> a fact that you would present it in a highly
> biased manner, i.e. you would not show the abusive
> behavior that I was responding to. That being
> said, please prove to me where I've ever come here
> on a daily basis screaming "bull$h!t" at people
> and referring to them as "fools," "idiots," and
> "shills." Comparing my deeds to yours is a wild
> and fantasy-like exaggeration on your part.
>
> Secondly, you will never understand me. Why would
> you even care to examine me like that?
>
> Prana, isn't the fact that you have a poster on
> here who keeps files on other posters and then
> threatens them with those files just a little
> creepy and abusive? Is that supposed to foster an
> environment of peace and healing? Isn't this a
> perfect example of what I'm talking about?
>
>
> John Rose Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > <<>>
> >
> > WHAT A JOKE!!!
> >
> > YOU (HH/Eric) ARE ONE OF THE MOST ABUSIVE
> PEOPLE
> > ON THIS WEBSITE!!!
> >
> > I've kept an ongoing list of all of our
> > infractions just so I could understand you
> better
> > - would you like for me to post them?
> >
> > I've been tempted many times, but you are
> > obviously in a lot of PAIN and now I'm thinking
> > about throwing your SHADOW in your face for
> your
> > own good, of course.
> >
> > Are you ready for a wake up call or do I even
> have
> > to bother?

Re: I gotta give John Rose props
Posted by: HH ()
Date: October 07, 2014 11:08PM

Okay now you're onto something. You're not as dumb as you look. smiling smiley I everyone is quarantined, who's going to do all the work?

That was YOU a month ago to me. Unprovoked rudeness that Prana didn't axe. And yet here you are whining as some victim when you are doing this left and right. I sure hope you are not this abusive with your partner because she has to live with you. Seriously dude, you cannot get away with acting like an abusive a-hole because some shrink said you have bipolar. It's no excuse, you know better but you persist in trying to feed off low energies. It's fruitless. Give it up.

LOL. Are you keeping a file on me too? Can you provide the link so that I can see the context? That only seems fair. As I recall I was joking around and added a smiley face to show that. Is that why it says "smiling siley" in the quote? If I didn't, I certainly meant to.

Prana has suspended me in the past for doing things that are 1/1000th as blatant as what he lets slide every day. That's not playing the victim. That's fact. He's suspended me for something that a lot of people do and which, as far as I can see, is not even listed in the forum rules.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > First of all, my reactions are just that,
> > reactions. They're not unprovoked. I would
> gladly
> > urge you to produce your evidence, but I know
> for
> > a fact that you would present it in a highly
> > biased manner, i.e. you would not show the
> abusive
> > behavior that I was responding to. That being
> > said, please prove to me where I've ever come
> here
> > on a daily basis screaming "bull$h!t" at people
> > and referring to them as "fools," "idiots," and
> > "shills." Comparing my deeds to yours is a wild
>
> > and fantasy-like exaggeration on your part.
> >
> > Secondly, you will never understand me. Why
> would
> > you even care to examine me like that?
> >
> > Prana, isn't the fact that you have a poster on
> > here who keeps files on other posters and then
> > threatens them with those files just a little
> > creepy and abusive? Is that supposed to foster
> an
> > environment of peace and healing? Isn't this a
> > perfect example of what I'm talking about?
> >
> >
> > John Rose Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > <<>>
> > >
> > > WHAT A JOKE!!!
> > >
> > > YOU (HH/Eric) ARE ONE OF THE MOST ABUSIVE
> > PEOPLE
> > > ON THIS WEBSITE!!!
> > >
> > > I've kept an ongoing list of all of our
> > > infractions just so I could understand you
> > better
> > > - would you like for me to post them?
> > >
> > > I've been tempted many times, but you are
> > > obviously in a lot of PAIN and now I'm
> thinking
> > > about throwing your SHADOW in your face for
> > your
> > > own good, of course.
> > >
> > > Are you ready for a wake up call or do I even
> > have
> > > to bother?
>
> Re: I gotta give John Rose props
> Posted by: HH ()
> Date: October 07, 2014 11:08PM
>
> Okay now you're onto something. You're not as dumb
> as you look. smiling smiley I everyone is
> quarantined, who's going to do all the work?
>
> That was YOU a month ago to me. Unprovoked
> rudeness that Prana didn't axe. And yet here you
> are whining as some victim when you are doing this
> left and right. I sure hope you are not this
> abusive with your partner because she has to live
> with you. Seriously dude, you cannot get away with
> acting like an abusive a-hole because some shrink
> said you have bipolar. It's no excuse, you know
> better but you persist in trying to feed off low
> energies. It's fruitless. Give it up.

I found it. It's the exact same thread where YOU swore at me for asking you if you had sources besides your intuition. If I had done anything confrontational, it was definitely provoked. And yes, I used a smiley face, i.e. no harm intended. Nice try. [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

HH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I found it. It's the exact same thread where YOU
> swore at me for asking you if you had sources
> besides your intuition. If I had done anything
> confrontational, it was definitely provoked. And
> yes, I used a smiley face, i.e. no harm intended.
> Nice try.
> [www.rawfoodsupport.com]
> 46916#msg-246916


[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

Scroll down towards the end. I am an expert on this type of behavior, by the way. They tease and ridicule and then chastise the other person for "being too sensitive" when it was just a "joke." I see through it because it's old hat for me. And what I have discovered is that the more I try and make them see how it is not kind and negative behavior, the more I am frustrated because they don't WANT to see it. Then they would have to change.

Anyone can be diagnosed with bipolar but it doesn't give one license or justification to lash out at others. I know how disorienting bipolar can be. I saw someone in a manic episode who I thought was on drugs. I don't deny that it exists and I do understand that it can cause one to act in ways they normally wouldn't. But I will never tolerate abusive behavior on a regular basis due to bp. I know someone who has been diagnosed as bp and always uses it as an excuse. And on top of that, drinks in an addictive way and says "I'm an alcoholic." LOL. As if "admitting you have a problem" is license to keep drinking and never stop.

At some point you have to get beyond all the labels and look at your behavior and decide that it's not gratifying anymore to upset the apple cart. I wish you well.

Excuse me but did you not swear at me, unprovoked, in that same thread? Whatever my intentions were, there was provocation. It is not kind to drop the eff bomb on someone because they simply asked you a question. You started the confrontation. The proof is in the thread. Case closed.

Interesting how all of you conspiracy theorists who don't believe in conventional medicine suddenly see something like bipolar as being very real when it's convenient to whatever sick little manipulation you're attempting. Nice try, but I am way too smart and way too strong for the likes of you.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I found it. It's the exact same thread where
> YOU
> > swore at me for asking you if you had sources
> > besides your intuition. If I had done anything
> > confrontational, it was definitely provoked.
> And
> > yes, I used a smiley face, i.e. no harm
> intended.
> > Nice try.
> >
> [www.rawfoodsupport.com]
>
> > 46916#msg-246916
>
>
> [www.rawfoodsupport.com]
>
> Scroll down towards the end. I am an expert on
> this type of behavior, by the way. They tease and
> ridicule and then chastise the other person for
> "being too sensitive" when it was just a "joke." I
> see through it because it's old hat for me. And
> what I have discovered is that the more I try and
> make them see how it is not kind and negative
> behavior, the more I am frustrated because they
> don't WANT to see it. Then they would have to
> change.
>
> Anyone can be diagnosed with bipolar but it
> doesn't give one license or justification to lash
> out at others. I know how disorienting bipolar can
> be. I saw someone in a manic episode who I thought
> was on drugs. I don't deny that it exists and I do
> understand that it can cause one to act in ways
> they normally wouldn't. But I will never tolerate
> abusive behavior on a regular basis due to bp. I
> know someone who has been diagnosed as bp and
> always uses it as an excuse. And on top of that,
> drinks in an addictive way and says "I'm an
> alcoholic." LOL. As if "admitting you have a
> problem" is license to keep drinking and never
> stop.
>
> At some point you have to get beyond all the
> labels and look at your behavior and decide that
> it's not gratifying anymore to upset the apple
> cart. I wish you well.

Maybe someone could provide more information, but I'm not sure if I believe bipolar is a real disease as opposed to a few things:

1.) An excuse for kids/young adults to act out when they don't get what they want or are dealing with stress, knowing they can blame it on their "disease". And of course it's not too hard to get diagnosed by psychologists because they will look at symptoms that can be attributed to a wide range of things and automatically blame it on being bipolar, allowing them to arrange for more therapy and drugs which fuels their business.

2.) Major nutritional deficiencies and/or body toxicity - Being deficient in omega-3's, vitamin D3, B-vitamins (including B12), magnesium, probiotics, amino acids, quality sleep, etc.

3.) Someone just absolutely hates certain aspects of their life and until they resolve it, they'll be very prone to negative emotions.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2014 11:45PM by jtprindl.

Probably something like that. It doesn't exist.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe someone could provide more information, but
> I'm not sure if I believe bipolar is a real
> disease as opposed to a few things:
>
> 1.) An excuse for kids/young adults to act out
> when they don't get what they want or are dealing
> with stress, knowing they can blame it on their
> "disease". And of course it's not too hard to get
> diagnosed by psychologists because they will look
> at symptoms that can be attributed to a wide range
> of things and automatically blame it on being
> bipolar, allowing them to arrange for more therapy
> and drugs which fuels their business.
>
> 2.) Major nutritional deficiencies and/or body
> toxicity - Being deficient in omega-3's, vitamin
> D3, B-vitamins (including B12), magnesium,
> probiotics, amino acids, quality sleep, etc.
>
> 3.) Someone just absolutely hates certain aspects
> of their life and until they resolve it, they'll
> be very prone to negative emotions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2014 12:28AM by HH.

My question is... if it is a real disease, why can't it be corrected by nourishing and detoxing the body? I could understand if someone went through some major traumatic brain injury, but most people diagnosed with bipolar have not. They were simply given medication or therapy based on symptoms, symptoms that mimic nutritional deficiencies. For example, if someone with depression is full of happiness after taking in high amounts of omega-3's... were they really depressed or were they deficient in omega-3's? Obviously the latter. Our brains cannot function properly when they aren't given the nutrition they need. You can have a brand new Ferrari sitting in your driveway but if you don't have the keys or put in the wrong engine, it's not going anywhere. Same can be said with brain functioning, if you don't nourish the brain and/or remove any toxicities, it's not going to work efficiently and as a result, negative symptoms arise.

I don't see it as a disease. I see it as a state of mind, a case of neuro-diversity that does not conform to the wishes of our masters. People that they refer to as manic-depressive or bipolar are highly creative and intelligent. They make poor slaves. The best way to deal with them is to attribute their ways to a disease state and then medicate them with chemical straight-jackets. No amount of omega-3s will make a bipolar person boring or docile enough to be "normal."

Should also add that the toxicity argument is possibly moot. It's been shown that bipolar symptoms have existed in writers for centuries (see "Touched With Fire" by Kay Redfield Jamison). What would have made the body of a 17th century writer toxic? Aren't the sort of toxicity concerns that you're talking about only relevant once the industrial revolution starts?

I also don't buy the nutrional deficiency argument when it comes to the bipolar. These people are born that way. Temple Grandin, the autistic author, has a brain structure that is completely different from normal people. I suspect that the same is true of bipolar folks.

By the way, I don't believe in labels. As you can see in this thread, they're too often abused to try and degrade people. Neither John Rose nor BananaWho know anything about me. I've never, ever used my diagnosis as an excuse for disagreeing with their behaviour. Why would I want to come up with an excuse for telling the truth? They're just blathering out of their collective keister. I also don't believe in labels because good psychologists shun them. They shun them because they believe that they're not productive in creating good mental health. I agree with this.

So yes, I would agree that it doesn't exist as a disease; however, I find your argument that bipolar people are effectively just a bunch of babies and drug addicts to be facile and ill-informed. But hey, please feel free to show me a respectable study which proves your beliefs.

Contrary to my beliefs regarding the nature of bipolar, some people do find a correlation between head trauma and so-called mental disorders. Once again, nutrition can do nothing for that. [sciencenordic.com]

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My question is... if it is a real disease, why
> can't it be corrected by nourishing and detoxing
> the body? I could understand if someone went
> through some major traumatic brain injury, but
> most people diagnosed with bipolar have not. They
> were simply given medication or therapy based on
> symptoms, symptoms that mimic nutritional
> deficiencies. For example, if someone with
> depression is full of happiness after taking in
> high amounts of omega-3's... were they really
> depressed or were they deficient in omega-3's?
> Obviously the latter. Our brains cannot function
> properly when they aren't given the nutrition they
> need. You can have a brand new Ferrari sitting in
> your driveway but if you don't have the keys or
> put in the wrong engine, it's not going anywhere.
> Same can be said with brain functioning, if you
> don't nourish the brain and/or remove any
> toxicities, it's not going to work efficiently and
> as a result, negative symptoms arise.

"People that they refer to as manic-depressive or bipolar are highly creative and intelligent."

Based off what?

"I don't see it as a disease. I see it as a state of mind, a case of neuro-diversity that does not conform to the wishes of our masters."

I don't wish to conform to the wishes of those in control, either, but I'm not bipolar. Also, this could go along with #3 on my list... "Someone just absolutely hates certain aspects of their life and until they resolve it, they'll be very prone to negative emotions"... They hate being in situations where they are asked to abide & conform to certain "authority" figures simply because they want them to.

"So yes, I would agree that it doesn't exist as a disease; however, I find your argument that bipolar people are effectively just a bunch of babies and drug addicts to be facile and ill-informed."

That's not what I'm saying, but I think a lot of children are diagnosed with being bipolar nowadays and then use that diagnosis as an excuse to act out how ever feel like, regardless of how irrational or illogical they are being. I don't buy that everyone who's "bipolar" is just too intellectually superior and smarter than everyone else and they're just bored. If that was the case, they could find a way to be happy and successful, provided they weren't drugged at an early age. We also have to establish a definition of "bipolar".. is it symptomatic or is someone's brain chemistry vastly different from most? Has there been any credible research on those diagnosed with bipolar and brain chemistry?

"It's been shown that bipolar symptoms have existed in writers for centuries (see "Touched With Fire" by Kay Redfield Jamison)"

Could still be nutritional deficiencies but you cannot base symptoms of an individual off of writings unless those writings clearly and directly state that it's how they feel. Even then, there are many other unknown possibilities which may have caused them to feel that way. Many writings are fiction and/or only written during specific phases of one's life.