What are you ideas around being authentic? I thought about that recently, and I am surprised at how many implications it has. "To thine own self be true" I believe came from shakespear. The exact meaning can mean different things to different people. For this forum doesn't it suggest also providing the best for your health, and your cells? that would potentially take the idea of being authentic to a different level.

To me it means "keeping it real" or not being phony. Not allowing society to determine how you think and act. Not being afraid to be different.

Right, not being phoney. Having a set of principles and sticking to them in the way you live your life. It applies to keeping your body healthy if that is a core principle, or the means to it is.

I am reading a book called "Don't Be Nice, Be Real". What got me interested in this book was a review by Michele in this post Don't Be Nice, Be REAL.

So far, what I am getting from the book, is that we have to pay attention to how we feel when we are in situations that don't feel good to us. And then, using the techniques of Non Violent Communication, share our feelings with others in a way that reflects what we are really feeling, rather than say something that is "nice" and won't upset the other person.

Being authentic is following your own path, and being honest with yourself when you diverge from that path onto a path that you feel others expect of you.

Prana,
It sounds like honesty at the core. Some degree of tact sounds appropriate, if not for the other person, for yourself. It don't particularly like confrontations, but they are necessary if one is to be true to oneself. The part that is outside of ones control is how the other person reacts.

Tamukha
Not being phoney, that is a great principle. I often wished that advertisements kept closer to this principle. I have purchased items where the experience of the product was different from what I thought it would be. It could be a communication problem, either on the producers part or my part. So its sometimes difficult to tell the source of problems like this.

Don't lie to yourself. If you make a promise, keep it. Telling yourself something then not following through is lying to yourself. It creates distrust. If you tell yourself "I will go for a run tonight." and then you don't then you just lied to yourself. You can't trust yourself. To thine own self be true.

Is getting a facelift or dying ones hair, is that lying to oneself? or how about to others?

Depends how you feel about that. I don't think hair cuts, wearing a bra, getting a facial or a manicure is lying to anyone.

Mislu Wrote:
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> Is getting a facelift or dying ones hair, is that
> lying to oneself? or how about to others?

Lying? No. There is a lack of self-acceptance, but not lying.

That's not a lack of self acceptance! Well, maybe the surgery but not the hair. I like taking care of my skin and hair and nails as much as I like taking care of my home. I am not a clothes horse, each of us has a limited amount of clothing and shoes etc but all of it is interesting and colourful and fun at least. I mean, we have eyes and other senses, we might as well feed them as well as we feed our mouths.

I wasn't responding to your post.

And it was my opinion.

And it is my opinion that a facelift or dying ones hair is due to a certain level of lack of self-acceptance. (Not the fun-type of dying of hair to various shades of purple (LOL) but the type where a person is covering gray or changes the color because they don't like their natural color, etc.) It doesn't mean that they don't love themselves overall or find joy in doing those things or feel great with the results.

Coco,
Its just a sort of philosophical and theoretical inquiry. So, the general idea of acceptance of oneself is different from being truthful, a sense of authenticity, or being genuine?

I am just trying to refine an Idea I have, and you have hit on a point which I myself have marked a distinction about. Getting a haircut is different from getting a facelift, or other cosmic surgery, or a body modification, or a marking which is lasting. Dying ones hair or chemically altering it is different from just getting a haircut. Wearing a bra I never really thought about it. It could be authentic if its just for support, but it its intent is to augment or diminish the size or appearance of the breasts in some way its not authentic?

Bras nearly all work to lift and separate, lol. There is no such thing as a natural breast shape in a bra, it's almost all barbie all the way. I prefer no bra myself but after nursing for a collective 6 years I find it uncomfortable to go without support. I don't go the padded push up route though, I'm more of a sports bra squish-it-all-down-so-it-won't-bounce type .

I haven't dyed my hair in years, don't like the chemicals and having to keep it up once it's done. I do recall having fun with it though, even if it wasn't a radical colour change (magenta lots of times). If I went black or red or whatever it was always just for fun. I never did it blonde or anything, that would have been a stretch for me. Just like wearing jewelry, dying hair can be a fun accessory. Then again, I don't really wear a lot of jewelry anymore either.

Being authentic, for me this is just feeling my own truth and not suppressing it to make it more acceptable or make others more comfortable. I leave that up to them, it's not my job to second guess for others, only to do what feels right to me.

Oh boy! You touched a nerve in me about the dyeing of the hair. Because I kind of agree with you. I am 45 and never have dyed my hair, even before it had grey in it. And my hair is dark brown but there are reddish undertones that seem to have increased as I have gotten older. Plus the grey streaks. Someone told me that they looked like highlights. Should I dye my hair? A part of me says no because I don't wanna be one of those people who fights aging. I stopped wearing makeup a long time ago; just rarely do I put any cosmetics on my face. So a part of me thinks that it's phony to try and look a certain way--for what? To be accepted? On the other hand, I want a job and I know how the "real world" operates and want to increase my chances of getting hired. Plus I think it would be fun to see how I look with jet black hair (from indigo). So you have got me to thinkin'...

Banana who,
Yes, that is a difficult one. People DO judge based on appearances. Ageism is a factor which is supposed to be illegal, but it is a bias which people get away with in hiring and firing. I myself am noticing that I am getting some greying on the sides of my hair, and I really could get a hair cut. Althought my sense of being authentic leads me to think that a higher level would require me not to get a haircut. But, for men in western culture that usually makes one a 'hippy' or some judgement like that. I could always put on a turban, but that makes me look Sikh, or some people confuse with muslim. In the USA right now either image is very likely to be encountered with extreme prejudice.

So yes, you are correct that people do judge, and people do try and do what they can to fit some ideal image, however right or wrong.

banana who Wrote:
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> Plus the grey
> streaks. Someone told me that they looked like
> highlights.


I call my gray, my 'shimmer'.

I think the concept of not being phoney is an impossible ideal. I think people who insist they're just keepin' it real are the fakest of all. We all have to measure self against society and surroundings otherwise we are ungrounded in reality. What's real about that?

I don't think responding to the environment makes anyone less 'real'. Sometimes the need to save face or keep peace or extricate one's self from a situation is more 'real' than one's ideals.

Most often appearance is a deliberate CHOICE
to fit into a social group,
express individuality,
show rebellion
or even show you don't care.

Although money and physical differences place limits on choices,
the amount and type of clothing, makeup, jewelry, tatoos, etc.,
or the lack of any of those,
all send messages that communicate to others.

Is it more authentic to be "natural" (nude with no adornment)?

Are you still authentic if you are making your appearance fit in with societal norms? But what if that is what you want to do?

Is it good to be authentic and true to yourself even if it puts you at odds with society and creates problems for you?

Is it unauthentic (phony) to dress differently say...
to try to get a new job?
to fit in with a new social group?
to experiment with a different look?

If someone does something new long enough that it becomes comfortable, is it then authentic once it becomes comfortable?

Hmmm...
Aren't they all choices anyway?

Existential questions.

The choice about hair style and coloring is germane to me right now because I had dyed my hair for over 10 years, but decided that I didn't want to do it anymore and wanted to let my hair grow out naturally. When it had grown out about a 2cm (less than an inch) I hated how it looked like I was just too lazy to dye it. I didn't want to wait for it to grow out to let me have my usual hair style, so I just cut it off there between old and new. WOW! It was SHORT!!! Even shorter than Kwan/Sharrhan's hair cut. But I LOVE it!!! (Sorry, no photos.) What's interesting is that I have (had?) always had very dark hair, but now I find that I have white bangs fading quickly to dark on the rest of my head. I know it makes me look older, but I'm fine with that. I used to like me with dyed hair because I felt it looked more like the me I had always been, but now I like the new me.

It seems authenticity can be a moving target!


My favorite raw vegan

Trive,
Yes, that seems totally true. As there are so many sides to what it means to be authentic. Mostly it seems to be an internal one. What feels authentic to one person is different for another. Some people may not even be concerned about that at all, but rather fitting in may be the most important. I think in my younger years I did my best to conform to the average appearance for my gender, age, income of my parents, religion etc...I guess in a sense even in conforming that was a type of being real, as far as that was my perception of what it meant to be ideal.