How Church Goers Are More Happy and Healthy

[healthy-living.knoji.com]

I know that I trust church-goers more than just your average joe. If I have a choice of a church-goer who I don't know or a non church-goer who I don't know to do a handyman job around my house, I'm going to hire the church-goer, because I trust they won't case the joint and come back later to rip me off.

Most people are too brainwashed by cultural Marxism to be able to fathom that the overwhelming majority of church-goers are good people. They'd rather conform to Hollywood and academia than open their minds to the simple truth.

HH Wrote:
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> Most people are too brainwashed by cultural
> Marxism to be able to fathom that the overwhelming
> majority of church-goers are good people. They'd
> rather conform to Hollywood and academia than open
> their minds to the simple truth.

Agreed. I generally trust church goin' folk as honest, decent people. Of course, there are bad eggs in every crowd, but that's life. Being around church my whole life, I've seen "every kind of Christian", lol.

"Not perfect, just forgiven..."

And I agree with you. There are "bad eggs." As someone who's very secular, I still find it disappointing that so many see only the few who are bad. I don't get it. It seems very hateful to me. Why is it okay for so many to be so bigoted toward Christians?

veganjuice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Most people are too brainwashed by cultural
> > Marxism to be able to fathom that the
> overwhelming
> > majority of church-goers are good people.
> They'd
> > rather conform to Hollywood and academia than
> open
> > their minds to the simple truth.
>
> Agreed. I generally trust church goin' folk as
> honest, decent people. Of course, there are bad
> eggs in every crowd, but that's life. Being around
> church my whole life, I've seen "every kind of
> Christian", lol.
>
> "Not perfect, just forgiven..."

HH, I think it's the history of Christianity. You know, like the Crusades? And have you ever watched "Jesus Camp?" I found it very interesting but it's been said that outside the East and West Coasts and large cities in between, the country is really like that. So lots of Bible-thumpers. To me, I can't see why people freak out about discussing religion, but then again, I didn't live with a high number of fundamentalist Christians. And even some people were traumatized by the Catholic Church and its schools. The intolerance to other faiths shown by fundamentalist Protestants is not cool. I was lucky to be raised in a liberal Christian faith that stressed service, not sin.

The intolerance to other faiths shown by fundamentalist Protestants is not cool

Christians are not supposed to be tolerant of other faiths. The Bible teaches to be a "radical" for Christ. It is offensive to some people, no doubt...but I'd rather go to Heaven.

YMMV

Every religion has a similar history. In typical negative media fashion, Jesus Camp focuses on a few of the bad ones. Every religion has those too. What about the other side of Christianity's history. All the charitable acts for example? Did you know that all white slave abolitionist activity was Christian based? How about the fact that many anti-war activists have been Christian, many of whom went to jail for their beliefs? I have a Master's degree in American and European history. You would be astounded at how many of history's best deeds were performed by Christians. I don't mind looking at the bad stuff. It won't go away if we don't recognize it and discuss solutions, but what about all the good things? I can't believe how negative minded this culture has become. It's pathological. There's a rising movement in professional psychology called "positive psychology." It's leader, Martin Seligman, is a professor at the University of Pennsylvania. The entire purpose of positive psychology is to find techniques to help people out of the disease mind-state that is negativity. It's literally making us sick. Another positive Christian historical thing that's applicable to this site: The Essenes. What about Jesus? Ever notice how he's an incredibly positive figure, yet everyone focuses on his horrible death? Wearing crosses to remember him is every bit as macabre and weird as it would be if people wore little rifle pendants to remember JFK.


banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HH, I think it's the history of Christianity. You
> know, like the Crusades? And have you ever watched
> "Jesus Camp?" I found it very interesting but it's
> been said that outside the East and West Coasts
> and large cities in between, the country is really
> like that. So lots of Bible-thumpers. To me, I
> can't see why people freak out about discussing
> religion, but then again, I didn't live with a
> high number of fundamentalist Christians. And even
> some people were traumatized by the Catholic
> Church and its schools. The intolerance to other
> faiths shown by fundamentalist Protestants is not
> cool. I was lucky to be raised in a liberal
> Christian faith that stressed service, not sin.

KidRaw Wrote:
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......Church Goers Are More Happy and Healthy

Ignorance is Bliss.
Can I hear an Amen?......WY

What about Jesus? Ever notice how he's an incredibly positive figure, yet everyone focuses on his horrible death? Wearing crosses to remember him is every bit as macabre and weird as it would be if people wore little rifle pendants to remember JFK.

I don't really get into the whole "cross wearing" thing, and I don't really like to "dwell" on Jesus' death per se', but if you are a christian, I think you would agree that the crucifixion and resurrection is the reason we rejoice.

Even though we may not "like" the horrible act of the crucifixion, it was a necessary thing.

As stated in Hebrews 9:22 -

"In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2013 10:59AM by veganjuice.

<<<I don't really get into the whole "cross wearing" thing, and I don't really like to "dwell" on Jesus' death per se', but if you are a christian, I think you would agree that the crucifixion and resurrection is the reason we rejoice.

Even though we may not "like" the horrible act of the crucifixion, it was a necessary thing.

As stated in Hebrews 9:22 -

"In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.">>>

Hey Veganjuice,

I don’t really get the whole “we got to kill some living creature, be it a human or an animal, because we screwed up” thing!!!

"To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me," saith the Lord. "I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he-goats...and when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear. Your hands are full of blood. Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes." -Isaiah 1:11, 1:15-16

“If I heard it once, I’ve heard it a million times, that the whole meaning of Jesus’ life was that he died for my sins. Let me tell you I don’t believe that. I think that’s grotesque. I don’t believe that human sacrifice is a very effective method for God to communicate the love of God to the world. Why didn’t God simply say - I forgive you? Why does God say - I’m not going to forgive you until you nail my son to a cross and let his blood be flowing?” -Bishop Jack Spong

“Sacrifices were invented by men as a pretext for eating flesh.” -Titus Flavius Clemens

Epiphanius quotes Jesus, in His confrontation with the high priest in the Temple after He has chased out the money lenders, “I come to abolish sacrifices, and unless you cease sacrifices my anger will not cease from you.”

[www.essene.org]
Jesus was teaching his disciples in the outer court of the Temple and one of them said unto him, "Master, it is said by the priests that without shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Can blood offerings take away sin?" Jesus answered, "No blood offering of beast or bird or man can take away sin. For how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.... For sins against the Law of God there can be no remission, except by repentance and amendment."

So, Jesus made quite clear that no blood sacrifice -- not even his own -- can provide salvation for your sins; rather, you must quit sinning (repent) and follow his SAVING TEACHINGS. And that was the doctrine of salvation of the Essene Nazarene Ebionites.

Six important assertions are made in regard to Paul:

JR’s Recap:

1) Paul said that it’s OK to eat meat sacrificed to idols.
2) Paul said that it’s OK to have slaves.
3) Paul said that women were inferior.
4) Paul replaced Jesus' doctrine of salvation by drawing attention away from imitating Christ and fixes attention on his sacrificial death.
5) Paul was the "demon-driven enemy of the Messiah."
6) Paul had been the enemy of Essene Christianity from the beginning by infiltrating the movement to destroy it from within.
[www.essene.org]

Peace and Love..........John

Oh Come on John Rose,

I can understand if you choose not to believe the Bible - I am not sure what your position is really, but if you do believe the Bible, yet do not agree with the crucifixion, how does your belief square with this passage where Jesus was talking to the Father immediately before the event?

Luke 22:42 -

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

Clearly, it was the Father's requirement for a final act of forgiveness for sins.

Read the entire chapter - The verses in Isaiah that you listed, taken out of context were directed to a specific people that were not sincere in there repentance, "going through the motions", if you will. There are a multitude of verses/passages in the old testament where the law explicitly states the requirements for blood sacrifice for the sins of the people.

Jesus' crucifixion, once & for all, did away with that requirement, as he was the sacrificial lamb. I know Religion, or more accurately Christianity has many detractors that believe "bits 'n pieces of the Bible, but I believe it as a whole, finished & completed work necessary for Salvation.

YMMV

Not sure if I really want to debate further - I most likely won't change your mind, and you certainly won't change mine.

I like to keep an open mind about all religions. Nobody knows the truth about the spiritual world, so who can say what's the truth, but probably all religions have a basic truth - there is a higher power, whether you call that higher power God or Allah or Buddha, or "The Universe". So the best we can do is to be tolerant of others' beliefs. I do know when you read or hear about the Near Death Experiences, when a person who died believes in Jesus, they end up in a beautiful place.

The Christian-bashing bothers me. It seems like those who belong to the New Age Religion are the most intolerate of Christians.

HH: I am not bigoted towards Christians but look at VeganJuice's comment that the religion is not supposed to be tolerant of other faiths and the quote: "I'd rather go to Heaven," which implies that unless you follow their faith, you're destined for Hell. I find that pretty obnoxious and arrogant (no personal attack meant; I am talking about that widespread belief). So it turns me off but again, I don't go around dissing Christians.

I do feel Communion (taking the body and blood of Christ), as well as the cross, are pretty macabre. I just do not resonate with Christianity.

banana who,

The Christian faith can seem offensive to many, I understand that, and I know that you meant no personal attack against my statement, no offense taken.

Even though you & others may find many parts of Christianity obnoxious and arrogant...well, the Father's words do come across that way.

Example:

Exodus 20:5

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"


Pretty macabre, huh? Here we see that the Father is a "jealous God", passing the misdeeds of the parents down onto the third and fourth generation of the children. There is much more to it than that, however. This is where a good, solid grounding in the faith can help a person understand these "odd" passages.

To a casual reader of the Bible, I know it seems harsh.

To fully understand a Christians' perspective on their faith, it would take a lengthy post that most would probably not be interested in reading, lol.

But I base my beliefs on more than just "blind faith", if you will. I base it on modern day prophecy.

For prophecy students, no one can deny that scripture that was penned thousands of years ago is coming true today and has for hundreds of years.

I hesitate from posting any further, because my intent is not to turn this into a "Bible Thumping" thread and quote random scriptures.

What a coincidence -

Last night my daughter was driving home from class and a deer was crossing the road and hit her car, so she pulled into the nearest driveway - the Church. Stuff was hanging off the car so she couldn't drive it home, so she called me to come and get her. When I got there, the Trustee, who had been working late and lives next to the church, was with her. He had fastened the stuff up and tied it to her car so she could drive it home. Then he and a neighbor pulled the deer out of the road and we picked up the broken parts of the car out the road and me and my daughter went home.

So I want to add that church people are also very nice and helpful people.

Vegan Juice, I hope you at least continue to read this thread. I am a bit outspoken at times and use pretty strong language and so I appreciate you seeing beyond it.

Kid Raw, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I find many religious people very helpful and caring.

"Vegan Juice, I hope you at least continue to read this thread. I am a bit outspoken at times and use pretty strong language and so I appreciate you seeing beyond it."

Sure, I'll continue to read & probably post as well. I just meant that I didn't want to come across as a "Bible Thumper", lol. It is easy to pick up that label, even if you just casually share your faith.

It's funny how non-believers will jump on a Christian right away & give them a hard time, but you can discuss all types of other religions or mainstream issues till the end of the day with little to no contention.

Most likely because *some* Christians are very self-righteous and that gives a bad name to all Christians. Then again, that logic can be applied to other walks of life as well.

For example, people will broad-brush all cops as being bad, or all doctors as being drug pushers, and of course that is not always the case.

So anyway...all that said, I still believe I'm on the right path & those that don't believe the Christian Bible, well...aren't. YMMV




As I mentioned previously, you can't argue with modern day prophecy...

I would say that 6000 years of murderous intolerance on the part of first the Jews before Christ and then the Christians might explain many bad feelings. Murderous genocide was God's chosen (the Jews) method of dealing with heathens. The Old Testament is a bloody murderous atrocity. Read Numbers 31 for starters. Numbers 31:35 - 47 is about the sacrifice of 64 virgin girls, meaning they killed them and then burnt their flesh on the altar. Joshua is full of genocides committed for God and it's to be assumed they did like it was in Numbers 31. And then there are the stonings to death for most anything. Go to evilbible.com for the relevant verses.

The Christians carried on the murderous tradition for 2000 years. The most evil murderous period being the 600 years of the Inquisition, which includes widespread torture and murder for God by mostly the Catholics but later on by the Protestants too. It was only with secular thinking (outside religion) that human rights came to rule, ie the Bill of Rights. For example there would be no women's rights if the bible was followed. In the Old Testament women rank little above livestock. Here're the verses in the New Testament where men are referred to as gods relative to lowly women:

1Timothy 2:8-15
1Peter 3:1, 5, 6
Titus 2:5
1Corin 14:34; 11:1-12
Ephes 5:22 - 24
Col 3:18
Gen 3:16
Song of Solomon


Christians talk about being persecuted but they have a heinous, murderous history of persecuting others.

Here's a good link:

[www.bibliotecapleyades.net]

"Anyone who attempts to construe a personal view of God which conflicts with Church dogma must be burned without pity."

Pope Innocent III


Fine Christian methods for dealing with those to disagree with official dogma

And after the Catholic Inquisition, the Protestants used their own Inquisitions to establish their own churches, (they murdered and tortured the Catholics and other opponents).

There's about 2000 years of Christians murdering and torturing people. And thousands of years before that of the Jews reign of murder and genocide. None of which has Christendom or Judaism repented. The supposed 100% true, pure word of god that promoted such murderous butchery is still there in the bible, the torah and the talmud.

Deuteronomy 2:32-37, 3:1-7, 20:12-20,

Joshua 11:6-23, 12:1-24.

The only reason Christians and Jews are somewhat well behaved is because secular law constrains them. If the church was in charge it would be hell on Earth.

If one threw out the evil parts of the bible (35 - 75 %) it would be a very good book. My only objection (so far) to the New Testament are the above verses concerning women. The Gospel seems very good. The Essene Gospel of Peace is very good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2013 09:46AM by brome.

"If one threw out the evil parts of the bible (35 - 75 %) it would be a very good book."

If we threw out the evil parts of the government (35 - 75 %) we would have a very good country! LOL - I couldn't resist.

brome, alot of what you state is true, some is a bit misguided, IMO. To accurately reply to your post would obviously be a lengthy one, I have not the strength for that.

As far as the bloody times of the OT, I personally have struggled with that as well.

I'll just state the following & leave it at that.

Isaiah 55:8-9

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."