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London's murder rate surpasses New York's for 1st time ever
Posted by: Prana ()
Date: May 06, 2018 01:42AM

LONDON -- A surge of stabbings in London was blamed Monday for the city overtaking New York's monthly murder tally for the first time in modern history. Fifteen people were murdered in London during February, compared to 14 in New York, according to police figures.

London's murder rate surpasses New York's for 1st time ever

This is proof that removing guns from the populace won't lower the murder rate, it just lowers homicide via guns. In London, people are killing each other with knives.


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Re: London's murder rate surpasses New York's for 1st time ever
Posted by: Jennifer ()
Date: May 06, 2018 07:08PM

Quote
Prana

This is proof that removing guns from the populace won't lower the murder rate, it just lowers homicide via guns. In London, people are killing each other with knives.

That's right. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. And now they want Knife Control. And I just read about Acid Attacks, which I never even heard of and that now they want Acid Control.

I'd much rather be shot with a gun than attacked with a knife or have acid thrown at me.

And - if guns are outlawed in the UK, how come there is gun crime there at all? Just like here in Chicago and places guns are banned, the gun crime is so high...

Gee, could it be that -

CRIMINALS (Criminals do almost all the crimes, mostly in cities) WILL GET GUNS ILLEGALLY OR KILL AND COMMIT CRIMES WITH WHATEVER MEANS THEY CAN, WHILE LAW-ABIDING LEGAL GUN HOLDERS WILL HAVE THEIR GUNS CONFISCATED BY GUN CONTROL NUTS AND ARE TOTALLY DEFENSELESS, SO CRIME WILL GO UP!

Duh!

Why do Libs refuse to admit that fact?

(Because they have an agenda - disarm the citizens)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2018 07:33PM by Jennifer.

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Re: London's murder rate surpasses New York's for 1st time ever
Posted by: RawPracticalist ()
Date: May 08, 2018 08:49AM

>Why do Libs refuse to admit that fact?

We got the message from the non-Libs.

It is clear.

No abortion.

Guns are good for us.

Pretty soon children in schools will have guns.

And babies can be trained with gun toys.

Pregnant mothers can carry guns under their belies.

And when they are fatalities we can say:

It is not the child fault when he shot his school teacher because he thought his grade was unfair.
The problem was that the teacher while writing on the board did not have time to load his gun. So what we need are guns that can fire themselves when the carrier is in danger. The child exercised his second amendment right but the teacher did not have a self firing gun. So let's go back to the gun manufacturers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2018 08:51AM by RawPracticalist.

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Re: London's murder rate surpasses New York's for 1st time ever
Posted by: Jennifer ()
Date: May 08, 2018 09:54AM

Thanks for pointing out, RawPracticalist, that when I list those who Kill, Rob and Rape us -

Criminals, Gangs, Rapists, Thieves, Drug Addicts

- those who will get Illegal Guns or use some other weapon no matter if there is Gun Control -

I forget to list these people -

THE MENTALLY ILL or NUTS or INSANE PERSON - whatever you want to call it. I think I did say "Psycho" once.

So -

Your example of a Mentally Ill Person commiting a crime is among those who will get ahold of and use a (usually) illegal gun or use some other weapon and do their harm no matter if there is Gun Control or not.

By a large margin, the only people who Gun Control controls is the Legal Law-Abiding people who use guns for Self-Defense. Gun Control will leave the Regular Law-Abiding Citizens Defenseless against the Criminals, Gangs, Drug Addicts, Thieves, Rapists AND MENTALLY ILL Psycho who do almost all the Crime

And this is key -

There are hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands or whatever, of instances of guns being used for Self-Defense and to Stop Crime than the type of Random Gun Crime you used as an example.

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Re: London's murder rate surpasses New York's for 1st time ever
Posted by: Jennifer ()
Date: May 08, 2018 05:04PM

Quote
Jennifer

There are hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands or whatever, of instances of guns being used for Self-Defense and to Stop Crime than the type of Random Gun Crime you used as an example.

As has been reported recently -

CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence That Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns

CDC surveys in the 1990s, never publicly reported, indicate nearly 2.5 million defensive uses of guns a year. That matches the results of Gary Kleck's controversial surveys, and it indicates more defensive than offensive uses of guns.

[reason.com]

Many people who support gun control are angry that the federal Centers for Disease Control (CDC) are not legally allowed to use money from Congress to do research whose purpose is "to advocate or promote gun control." (This is not the same as doing no research into gun violence, though it seems to discourage many potential recipients of CDC money.)

But in the 1990s, the CDC itself did look into one of the more controversial questions in gun social science: How often do innocent Americans use guns in self-defense, and how does that compare to the harms guns can cause in the hands of violent criminals?

Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck conducted the most thorough previously known survey data on the question in the 1990s. His study, which has been harshly disputed in pro-gun-control quarters, indicated that there were more than 2.2 million such defensive uses of guns (DGUs) in America a year.

Now Kleck has unearthed some lost CDC survey data on the question. The CDC essentially confirmed Kleck's results. But Kleck didn't know about that until now, because the CDC never reported what it found.

Kleck's new paper—"What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses?"**—finds that the agency had asked about DGUs in its Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System in 1996, 1997, and 1998.

Those polls, Kleck writes,

are high-quality telephone surveys of enormous probability samples of U.S. adults, asking about a wide range of health-related topics. Those that addressed DGU asked more people about this topic than any other surveys conducted before or since. For example, the 1996 survey asked the DGU question of 5,484 people. The next-largest number questioned about DGU was 4,977 by Kleck and Gertz (1995), and sample sizes were much smaller in all the rest of surveys on the topic (Kleck 2001).

Kleck was impressed with how well the survey worded its question: "During the last 12 months, have you confronted another person with a firearm, even if you did not fire it, to protect yourself, your property, or someone else?" Respondents were told to leave out incidents from occupations, like policing, where using firearms is part of the job. Kleck is impressed with how the question excludes animals but includes DGUs outside the home as well as within it.

Kleck is less impressed with the fact that the question was only asked of people who admitted to owning guns in their home earlier in the survey, and that they asked no follow-up questions regarding the specific nature of the DGU incident.

From Kleck's own surveys, he found that only 79 percent of those who reported a DGU "had also reported a gun in their household at the time of the interview," so he thinks whatever numbers the CDC found need to be revised upward to account for that. (Kleck speculates that CDC showed a sudden interest in the question of DGUs starting in 1996 because Kleck's own famous/notorious survey had been published in 1995.)

Kleck further details how much these CDC surveys confirmed his own controversial work:

The final adjusted prevalence of 1.24% therefore implies that in an average year during 1996–1998, 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense. This estimate, based on an enormous sample of 12,870 cases (unweighted) in a nationally representative sample, strongly confirms the 2.5 million past-12-months estimate obtained Kleck and Gertz (1995)....CDC's results, then, imply that guns were used defensively by victims about 3.6 times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.

However interesting attempts to estimate the inherently uncountable social phenomenon of innocent DGUs (while remembering that defensive gun use generally does not mean defensive gun firing, indeed it likely only means that less than a quarter of the time), when it comes to public policy, no individual's right to armed self-defense should be up for grabs merely because a social scientist isn't convinced a satisfyingly large enough number of other Americans have defended themselves with a gun.

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Re: London's murder rate surpasses New York's for 1st time ever
Posted by: RawPracticalist ()
Date: May 09, 2018 01:29PM

>The final adjusted prevalence of 1.24% therefore implies that in an average year during 1996–1998, 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense.

Which means that there are probably more than 100 millions U.S. adults who go about their lives every day without carrying guns


I have many friends, colleagues at work who come everyday to work without guns, they raise their families without guns.

They enjoy life in the park, at the beach without guns.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2018 01:30PM by RawPracticalist.

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Re: London's murder rate surpasses New York's for 1st time ever
Posted by: Jennifer ()
Date: May 09, 2018 10:22PM

Yes, but what if they lived in the 'inner city' where all the criminals commit all the crime...

Anyway, CNN said this -

Less than a third of people own guns.

"We don't know how many people own guns

There is no countrywide database where people register whether they own guns (the law doesn't allow it). We have to rely on surveys instead. High quality telephone polls from Gallup and the Pew Research Center in 2017 found that 42% of people in the US live in households with guns. According to the General Social Survey, which has a much higher response rate than telephone polls and interviews people in person, a relatively lower 32% of Americans said in 2016 that they lived in household with guns. The gap between telephone and GSS surveys has existed in some form for 20 years, so it isn't just a one-off difference."

[www.cnn.com]

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Re: London's murder rate surpasses New York's for 1st time ever
Posted by: Jennifer ()
Date: May 10, 2018 09:46AM

Quote
Jennifer
Quote
Jennifer

There are hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands or whatever, of instances of guns being used for Self-Defense and to Stop Crime than the type of Random Gun Crime you used as an example.

As has been reported recently -

CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence That Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns

CDC surveys in the 1990s, never publicly reported, indicate nearly 2.5 million defensive uses of guns a year. That matches the results of Gary Kleck's controversial surveys, and it indicates more defensive than offensive uses of guns.

[reason.com]

Many people who support gun control are angry that the federal Centers for Disease Control (CDC) are not legally allowed to use money from Congress to do research whose purpose is "to advocate or promote gun control." (This is not the same as doing no research into gun violence, though it seems to discourage many potential recipients of CDC money.)

But in the 1990s, the CDC itself did look into one of the more controversial questions in gun social science: How often do innocent Americans use guns in self-defense, and how does that compare to the harms guns can cause in the hands of violent criminals?

Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck conducted the most thorough previously known survey data on the question in the 1990s. His study, which has been harshly disputed in pro-gun-control quarters, indicated that there were more than 2.2 million such defensive uses of guns (DGUs) in America a year.

Now Kleck has unearthed some lost CDC survey data on the question. The CDC essentially confirmed Kleck's results. But Kleck didn't know about that until now, because the CDC never reported what it found.

Kleck's new paper—"What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses?"**—finds that the agency had asked about DGUs in its Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System in 1996, 1997, and 1998.

Those polls, Kleck writes,

are high-quality telephone surveys of enormous probability samples of U.S. adults, asking about a wide range of health-related topics. Those that addressed DGU asked more people about this topic than any other surveys conducted before or since. For example, the 1996 survey asked the DGU question of 5,484 people. The next-largest number questioned about DGU was 4,977 by Kleck and Gertz (1995), and sample sizes were much smaller in all the rest of surveys on the topic (Kleck 2001).

Kleck was impressed with how well the survey worded its question: "During the last 12 months, have you confronted another person with a firearm, even if you did not fire it, to protect yourself, your property, or someone else?" Respondents were told to leave out incidents from occupations, like policing, where using firearms is part of the job. Kleck is impressed with how the question excludes animals but includes DGUs outside the home as well as within it.

Kleck is less impressed with the fact that the question was only asked of people who admitted to owning guns in their home earlier in the survey, and that they asked no follow-up questions regarding the specific nature of the DGU incident.

From Kleck's own surveys, he found that only 79 percent of those who reported a DGU "had also reported a gun in their household at the time of the interview," so he thinks whatever numbers the CDC found need to be revised upward to account for that. (Kleck speculates that CDC showed a sudden interest in the question of DGUs starting in 1996 because Kleck's own famous/notorious survey had been published in 1995.)

Kleck further details how much these CDC surveys confirmed his own controversial work:

The final adjusted prevalence of 1.24% therefore implies that in an average year during 1996–1998, 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense. This estimate, based on an enormous sample of 12,870 cases (unweighted) in a nationally representative sample, strongly confirms the 2.5 million past-12-months estimate obtained Kleck and Gertz (1995)....CDC's results, then, imply that guns were used defensively by victims about 3.6 times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.

However interesting attempts to estimate the inherently uncountable social phenomenon of innocent DGUs (while remembering that defensive gun use generally does not mean defensive gun firing, indeed it likely only means that less than a quarter of the time), when it comes to public policy, no individual's right to armed self-defense should be up for grabs merely because a social scientist isn't convinced a satisfyingly large enough number of other Americans have defended themselves with a gun.

So as stated above, (please read the whole article at the link above at Reason website; I only posted a few of the paragraphs) the CDC and Gary Kleck have conducted the most comprehensive research on Defensive Gun Use thus far.

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Re: London's murder rate surpasses New York's for 1st time ever
Posted by: Jennifer ()
Date: May 10, 2018 09:52AM

This post by RHB is an example of the numerous articles by the Lib Media stating the Bogus DGU (Defensive Gun Use) Statistics of the VPC (Violence Policy Center) the Libs use to advocate their Gun-Control Agenda.

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

As I previously stated, and the Reason Website states, the CDC Survey and Kleck Survey shows the most comprehensive research on DGU - Defensive Gun Use

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