So, I started talking about this on another thread, but I was hoping to get a larger discussion going. So... I am starting this thread to hopefully learn some things and also to get people thinking. I am not trying to attack anyone or their lifestyle, honestly.
The whole concept of food justice is new to me. I have done some reading on it in the past, Vandana Shiva Stolen Harvest, and have done some rearch on the water privatization crisis, specifically South Africa. I have to be honest, for the most part, I did not change my eating patterns very much--stopped drinking Coke and Snapple, tried to become a vegetarian (still an ongoing deal but I eat a significant amount less meat). I started trying to eat mostly organic about a year ago, but more for my health benefits than anyone else's.
My new concerns with food justice have been concurrent with the change in my eating patterns as I try to eat more and more raw. I recently read Women Working the Nafta Food Chain: Women, Food, and Globalization, Deborah Brandt edt. This book revealed many details about the working conditions of the women who work in agriculture in Mexico that I had previously not known. It is amazing how the structural adjustment procedures that countries are forced to implement, turning their self-sustinance farming into monoculture for export, negatively affects the world.The book also made me look at the huge amount of produce, mostly organic, that I was starting to consume as part of my evolving diet.

I admit, I like the new way I am eating, so part of my query revolves around the fact that I would like to be able to maintain my new lifestlye, but I need to also try and lessen the negative impact I am having on the world around me (people should not have to suffer for my year-round strawberry addiction). So part of this thead is geared towards my personal ambition to discover how other people have tackled this problem (I know I am not the only one). What companies have good labor/environmental policies in place? What actions have people taken to adjust their diet? What can people recommend to me?

I guess behind this is also a desire people to think about the way that their personal habits effect the world (even though it doesn't stop at food). It seems like people on this listserve PASSIONATLY care about food, and most also seem to want to make their lives as eco-friendly as possible (probably moreso than mine). I believe that eating raw food is essentially better than processed because, well, there'e one less level of factory. And eating organic definitly decreases the amounts of toxic chemicals being introduced into the earth. But what do people think about the convergances between a raw food diet and food justice? About the impact that year round access to grapes and strawberries has on the people in other countries, specifically the global south. Leaders have been overthrown over fruit (Guatemala and the United Food Co).I know that lifestyle politics only go so far in the long run, but every little bit helps.

Alright...so that has been building up in me for a long time. I would really love to get a larger discussion going on this thread, but feel free to email me personally, keg231@nyu.edu.

For those of you who made it through the proceeding book (and my atrocious spelling), thank you. I hope to hear from y'all soon. Have a wonderful day and a wonderful meal!~Kate

What I think:

-Every step you take away from aligning you life in a way that does not depend on foods that other people produce is a great step. And every step toward providing others with fresh produce that YOU grew is a great leap.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

that's why i'm a davey mason fan


he nailed it right - 0n
took the words out of my mouth

thank you kategreen. this does make me think of that slogan "think globally buy locally" or how ever that one goes. maybe it is "think globally EAT locally" hmm

What David said is spot on.

Find your local farmers market and try and buy as much as possible there.

Learn about wild food, see how much food you can pick yourself from your local area (may or may not be relevant depending on where you live and how much time you have. I live in London and manage to pick wild greens year round, I rarely buy greens!)

Grow your own food. Fruit trees which are suited to your particular area can take very litle work to look after (but will probably take a few years before they fruit).

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

Hi Kate,
This is a subject that I think about a LOT-- thanks for bringing it up. It grieves me to no end to realize that organic farmers are treating the migrant workers who work for them exactly the same way the conventional agri-biz farmers do: abysmally.


I've just recently applied for a local garden plot (I live in an apartment, so I can only grow sprouts) so I can grow some of my own food, and my personal activism is mainly focused around Codex Alimentarius, because it may very well cause enormous harm to our food supply if its directives go into effect here in the US at the end of 2009.

It bothers me to no end to buy all my food at Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and a co-op that's become so expensive it's only a co-op in name; it's really a 'convenience' store. I remember a time (I'm 57) when meat was expensive, but produce was very cheap. Now, at least where I live, a lot of the produce is priced completely out of most people's range.

The politics of food is being wrested from our control. What can we do about it? This is so important!!!!!!

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Its good to think about such issues, but its important to not be too neurotic about it also. All manner of goods are shipped around the globe to the detriment of pretty much everyone down the line except the comparitively affulent consumer.The stat is something like the poundage transported per year being equal to moving every single person on the planet 6 times.

how much of the weight is consumer electronics/ brand name clothing and other 'ready to be thrown out then replaced next year' items and how much is fresh fruit? I think there have been some really good points that have been made as well about how buying grain and oil products subsidizes the meat and dairy industry and also the massive ammount of water used and damaged, energy and enviormental damage from cooking/processing etc... if you look at mostly any 'product' it will have a similar relationship to some kind of disterous web of commercece. so no use going crazy, you just do what you can do.


everyone has a right to strive to be a healthy as possible. and what many people are figureing out is they can do this while also leaving a smaller footprint on the world (not a nonexistant one). have you ever seen medical waste? changeing yourself is usually a good step to changing the world.

I live in a dense urban area. and while eventualy living a sustainable life of growing your own is a great goal, I think the best way to function on a moral level you can be emotionaly stable at is to allow yourself a few concessions as long as you are continuly striving to do better.

theres not really much I can do about throwing out so much compostable peels right now, And I'll buy the produce I can afford and not think too much about it because I obstrain from mostly any product, new clothing, consume very little bottled water, bike through most of the year etc...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2007 01:28AM by anaken.

What David is is great: grow your own foods. I grow a some lettuce and tomatos on my balcony, and I participate in a friend's garden.

Certainly shopping at farmer's markets is supporting your local farmers. Do some research into community supported agriculture. Do some cooperative bulk buying from local farmers.

When you buy local produce, it will also cost you less because there is less shipping overhead.

As for reducing your food costs, start your own food buying cooperative. I participate in one and I buy bulk produce at 25% to 30% less than at the health food store. Our co-op group also does bulk purchases of melons from local farmers during the melon season, which gets us a discount over the farmer's market prices.

thanks so much kate,

this is a huge issue. i also want to think more about
what i can do about all the daily frivolous food waste.
i know many groceries, restaurants and even the university
here all trash tons of edible food daily.

how can we find out the banana agrigculture working conditions.
that's be a big one for us.

fruitgirl

for years i've been able to do 100% raw during the summer
and only about 60-80% during the cold months eating apples,
oranges, bananas, pears and steamed veggies til fruit comes more in season.

it has always seemed difficult to me to stay raw year round
without buying out of season tropical fruits, shipped from
far away countries.

altho i know i do have my share of out of season treats.

any ideas on this?

fruitgirl



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2007 04:08PM by fruitgirl.

Most folks live in areas where - with some planning - local fruits and vegetables should be available year-round. Either through local farmers, grocery stores, or growing your own. If one cannot find that they can live adequately on the local fare....then what option is there but to move to an area where food is abundant and the weather is amenable?

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Hey y'all-Thanks so far for responding. David, I really appreciated the idea of not only growing your own but providing for others. I checked out your website btw and your weekend retreats look like an amazing way of putting your theories into action.

I am planning on trying to grow some food on my fire escape and possibly roof this summer (I would love to grow my own tomatos). And, after posting this, I started doing research into the work ethics of companies carried at my local co-op. I am going to check out Boycott Quartely.As I get answers on some good companies, I will post them if anyone is interested.

Kwan--What is the Codex? What groups are you involved in.

As for the price of fruits and vegetables, that's another big cpncern of mine. It frustrates me that eating healthy is a luxary, that many people are forced to subsist off of fast food because they cannot afford healthier raw or cooked alternatives. To me, especially if you live in an urban area, a raw diet seems like a privelige; I am able, to an extent, to make decisions when I walk into a supermarket/coop/greenmarket.

I thought of another book everyone might like, No Logo by Naomi Klein.

>
> As for the price of fruits and vegetables, that's
> another big cpncern of mine. It frustrates me that
> eating healthy is a luxary, that many people are
> forced to subsist off of fast food because they
> cannot afford healthier raw or cooked
> alternatives. To me, especially if you live in an
> urban area, a raw diet seems like a privelige; I
> am able, to an extent, to make decisions when I
> walk into a supermarket/coop/greenmarket.




I think this is only partly true.

As the raw diet progresses,it seems most people need less food and less exotic food. I think people sort of panic for the first few months of raw, thinking they will be malnourished without lots of familiar staples or *replacements* for their regular food. Many of us have found we dont even desire as much food as we used to eat.

I also believe we are only as victimized as we feel we are. No one outside of an institution is forced to eat SAD. Many people on tiny budgets eat healthily and cheaply using their smarts and intuition to guide them and its been this way forever.

When I consider the amount of work going into producing fresh produce, I dont think theyre overpriced (at least at the greengrocers). Great value for money.


People have lost their instincts for proper living. They dont even know how to eat simply. Maybe Im lucky that Ive always had the instinct to eat from nature, Ive never been afraid of garden soil or of eating unidentified greens growing around me. To me dirt is what comesfrom something manmade. Before I went raw I always loved the simplest Mediterranean style foods, many of which are raw and which involve little preparation, few ingredients and the freshest ingredients.

Kate--
Codex Alimentarius is a massive committee of delegates (mostly pharmaceutical reps) representing most of the world's countries, that is creating transnational directives (laws, basically) that will become mandatory for any country that wants to participate in world trade. The Codex directives will supercede our own laws. Most or all of Europe is already under Codex. It eliminates vitamins and minerals except in miniscule doses, makes almost all supplements illegal (I believe you have to get a doctor's prescription for the ones that are allowed), outlaws HERBS (!!), and is in the process of mandating the use of several extremely poisonous and universally banned pesticides and putting them back into use again. Also, Codex is working toward the goal of having all produce irradiated (yes, organic too). This is just a brief summary. Google 'Natural Solutions + Codex" for more info.

I have tried to get something happening in my community, but there has been no interest yet-- people are convinced 'it can't happen here,' and they don't want to read up on what the experts say about it. I was putting up flyers, and this spring I will hand out flyers in Harvard Square again soon from time to time. Meanwhile, my activism is mostly in the form of educating myself online, signing petitions, and talking to my friends and acquaintances about it.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

There are many homes with fruit trees - oranges, apples, plums, etc - that go unharvested. One could start a non-profit, which would gather the fresh fruit from these homes and donate them to local foodbanks, and/or open a stand at a farmers market to sell low cost fruit to raise money. Money raised can pay for efforts to educate the community about planting more fruit trees on their properties.

Kwan,
i was lying awake last night wondering whether to go to medical school just to have a credential to do something about the Codex. it is really disturbing. how can we get people to care about it?

Kategreen,
on an individual level i don't think we have all that many answers, because the personal dollar only goes so far. i grow some greens and herbs, buy lots from farmers markets and local markets, eat fair trade, mostly vegan, local, organic, etc. first i push it all away, all the parts of the military industrial complex i can get away from, then thoughtfully add in just the minimum necessary to take care of my family and friends.
it's just not fun to me to know this fruit or that cheese or that dress contributed to the suffering of the garden into which we were born. or the suffering of anyone in it. i like to play and think everyone else has that right as well.

Can you imagine if we cannot get fresh produce anymore but all irradiated. I heard all supermarket herbs are.

Hi Crowd,
Your goals are very noble.
But don't feel lik you have to go to med school-- probably wouldn't help much anyway, since it's mostly pharmaceutical corporation bigwigs who are making the 'rules.' BUT there's hope-- we as citizens can make the difference if we wake up. The first thing to do is wake up our fellow sleepyheads. I came up with this little stepladder to success re. Codex:

* educate ourselves and learn everything we can
* give ourselves time and space to grieve and be mad about it for awhile
* meditate about what role we can play and how we can be spiritual activists
* work locally and globally to turn Codex into a nutrition-based directive

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

bryan saysz

<<I grow a some lettuce and tomatos on my balcony>>

that's a step up from the McMuffinz people who grow lettuce and tomatoes on their baloney

harrr harrr!

Suvine,

i keep looking for that suspect produce code starting in '8' but never see it. They sure do change the rules quick-like.

But I'm not sure irradiated food is scarier to me personally than say Durian from a tree fed chemicals to make it fruit all year (may be like the poor Milk Cows). I didn't realise they did that.

Sharrhan,

you're right about that. I think the self-re-education of docs like Mercola is probably very costly, and it isn't complete, either -- he seems to be pretty stuck on the medical model the way he peddles pressed Krill.

It would, however, be very nice to be able to trust someone for advice, with a little competence in navigating the complex toxins of the modern world. You know, I mean, that's why society asks people to specialise in anything, from gardening to graphic design. I dunno, maybe the point is that we can't do that. Ivan Illich has a good point about that.

Those are cool steps I wish the Codex stood for suspending bioengineering and most long-distance imports. But my impression was that ecological health wasn't the priority (it's been a year or two since I read about it in detail though). Even if it were nutritionally based my concern is that the 'nutrition' would be laboratory measured according to some corporate western standard. Because there are so many bureaucrats involved and they have to be able to plug in numbers to their equations.
Can you imagine a world in which the ideal was an american school lunch with lots of ketchup (for the 'bioavailable lycopene,' cringe).

Can you tell us more about what you've learned about the Codex, in plain language? Or point us to a site that clearly interprets the legal language, without being frightening, so we can analyse and plan?

Crowd, (and everybody)--
Here are some links I found. If I find some better articles I'll post them here later, but here's a few to start:

[www.gene.ch]
[snipurl.com]
[www.thepowerhour.com]
[www.newstarget.com]
[press.arrivenet.com]
[www.healthfreedomusa.org]
[snipurl.com]
[www.who.int]
[Excerpt:
"The Commission also adopted a new standard for irradiated foods that
accepts higher levels of radiation on food products. Food is irradiated
to make it safe for longer periods of time. The process, which uses gamma
ray irradiation, kills bacteria, increasing the food products’ shelf life.
The Commission determined that allowing higher levels of irradiation would
eliminate bacterial spores and the radiation resistant pathogenic bacteria
Clostridium botulinum. The process also reduces the need to use more toxic
chemical methods of combating bacteria, some of which can be harmful to the
environment."]

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Excellent article on what Codex means for our future:

[www.naturalawakeningsmag.com]

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

quoting annie27:
"I also believe we are only as victimized as we feel we are. No one outside of an institution is forced to eat SAD. Many people on tiny budgets eat healthily and cheaply using their smarts and intuition to guide them and its been this way forever."

It may be true that many people eat healthily, SAD healthy or raw healthy, on a small budget, but I would argue that more people eat extremelly unhealthy. There are lots of studies about the link between poverty and obesity (just google poverty and obesity). Fast food is both what is cheap, availible, and conveniant for many people of little means. Just look at New York--I live in a gentrified area, there is the local co-op, several supermarkets, and 2 farmers markets within walking distance. In poorer areas of the city you might not have a single supermarket, or the one nearby only carries awful looking GMO produce. Instead, you have a glut of fast food. I found one website that listed the average food stamp allowance in Virginia at $2.55 per person per day. You may be able to survive off that if you mono-eat banana's and apples but that should be a choice, not a requirement.
And that's just in the US. All over the world, countries in the global South which used to be populated by mostly subsistance farmers are instead being forced by WTO Structural Adjusmant Procedures to switch over to mono-cultures and factory farms for export to the Western world. Growing the varieties that have been developed over the centuries is now made ILLEGAL (Vandana Shiva talks a lot about rice in India). These countries produce food for export while their people starve. And the Western world gets to not have seasons for fruits anymore.



"When I consider the amount of work going into producing fresh produce, I dont think theyre overpriced (at least at the greengrocers). Great value for money."

Farmers markets and greengrocers, situations where you buy directly from the farmer might be great value for the money, but supermarkets have as much as a 900% markup, especially on things like organic produce, which is viewed as a luxary item. And, with big corporations moving into organic produce because they can charge more for it, you don't know what the labor conditions were for the pickers. Fruit and produce are now viewed as luxary items, while unhealthy processed food, like pasta and ramen, is cheap enough to be a staple

I am sorry for ranting, I just wanted to respond to those two points. Please respond and tell me what you think.

Sharrhan: Thanks for the info on the Codex--I did some research--which group are you involved in? It's crazy how far pharmaceuticals are willing to go to make a buck--they want the entire world to be sick so they can make a profit

Suvine: Thanks for the factoid--I fill out a lot of those email letter campaigns. It's good to know that people actually pay attention

I was making the point that despite what we may perceive as our limitations, we can actually CHOOSE to do something other than what we have been doing.

Despite what poor people actually eat, I KNOW people who subsist on tiny budgets and are very healthy and who eat very simply, walk everywhere, etc.

The link between poverty and obesity is doubtless true, but remember to factor in other things such as poverty + lack of education, depression and sense of hopelessness, using food as an instant mood enhancer, lack of access to finer things such as naturopathic medicine, and, what I think is probably the biggest factor, the blind hope that by eating fast food, theyll be as happy as the people in the fast food commercials seem to be. How would they eat if they constantly saw ads of happy slim people eating fresh, cheap, grown at home vegies and fruit (question mark).


But everyone has free choice.


I do see your point, tho kate, but believing that people are victims and not free thinkers is the best way to enslave or anger them. What people really need is to know how powerful and wonderful they really are.


Best, Anne

With the new ads, I think The Burger King now is operating on a level where one needs to be in some kind of pharmacutical psychadelia to participate.

I always thought the driving force was as a kid you bought the crap food because you wanted the shiny plastic pop culture totem to bury in your backyard. And then after awhile you forgot and just went back because there was some kind of manchurian candidate-esq tracer in the other 67% of the meat patty.

I like the happy people theory

The new McDs ones are a bunch of road tripping gen-something or others loading up on mCmeals and then sitting around a camp fire. I couldn't even follow the plot, but i think the moral was 1.) even in the middle of no-where you can find mcdonalds. and 2.) @&^@&# camping. eat mcdonalds.

oooh.. i haven't seen the commercial but campfires are about social conexion

i have always been 'sensitive' but on raw, oh my, it's even easier to pick out casual nastiness (about the diet or about anything else on earth) ... i had a very sharp tongue as a child, protective, but anyway, many people are fulfilled by healthy relationships and intimate interdependence and sharing values and singing the same songs (even in their different voices).

thanks for the links Sharrhan! Hope to look at them this weekend

> "but believing that people are victims and not free thinkers is the best way to enslave or anger them. What people really need is to know how powerful and wonderful they really are." <

Hi Anne-- I'm not sure it's so simple. Thoughts of course are powerful, but if one has not had an oppressive or non-supportive environment, especially in their formative years, their choices can be very limited. Everyone doesn't get a fair shake or an equal opportunity.

Just a thought.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Hi Sharrhan,

I think its as simple or not as we choose.

I dont come from a supportive or nurturing environment and am still plowing through problems I created by having a victim,s stance. I feel better and better the less I bow to it.


Im well aware that life seems terribly unfair. Theres no hardness in my answer and no bleeding heart either. Please understand that what I have, is respect for others.

I don't believe you created all your problems, particularly if they happened to you when you were very young. What a shame to blame yourself for abuse, for instance, if that was the case. I believe a lot of people needlessly suffer twice-over (first the abuse or trauma, then they blame themselves for it) because of a teaching that ultimately is incorrect.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

We are not even talking about the same things.

Im not talking about blame. Im talking about personal choice, personal initiative, personal power and the freedom we all have to use those things. The victim stance is something we pass through on our way to choice.


You and I have very different perspectives, thats all, and Im comfortable with yours being different from mine.

Best, Anne