HIYA!

RAW FOOD AND ENLIGHTENMENT

I posted this to my diary but feel like I'd like to give this post a little larger audience. I live at a Buddhist temple in South Korea. Knowing this helps understand what I have written a bit better.

A couple of weeks ago I told the abbot here about the pain in my knee. He said to eat rice and asked if there was any problem with rice. Sort of a curt answer. I didn't know what to make of it and still don't. I didn't take to it too kindly. Didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling from it.

It set me off to thinking. I can imagine that an enlightened person would see the "of course" -ness of raw food -ness. Based on my intellectual understanding of enlightenment it really makes sense to me that an enlightened person would see it.

So why doesn't this guy endorse raw foods? I have three ideas.
1. He's not enlightened.
2. He said this to me for some reason that I don't understand. Maybe he was prodding me in a way that is beneficial to my eventual "awakening" (to "reality".
3. A person, even an enlightened person, can't know about something they haven't experienced.

This third one is the one I lean towards. But, the first one makes quite a bit of sense too. People who speak of enlightenment say that you see into all existence, see the whole of reality, not just part of it, like everyone else. And, if this is the case, then wouldn't an enlightened person see such an important, significant piece of life? If they want to help humanity, then wouldn't they say something like, "Hey, just eat an apple."? Wouldn't they be prodding us to eat raw, in addition to other parts of practice?

If I say that yes they should, then it seems to me that there probably aren't any enlightened people on this earth. I don't know of any person, Buddhist or otherwise, who has been enlightened and has endorsed raw foods. With the possible exception of Jesus. But, no comment there. I do indeed believe that there is such a thing as enlightenment. I do indeed believe there is such a thing as delusion, which is the state that nearly every human is in nearly all the time.

The abbot, who, by the way, is considered an enlightened man, eats little raw food. He was sick recently so did a 10 day cleanse. He had some tea and probably some "bamboo salt". He says that enlightened people know what to do when they get sick. Sunmi told me he said this. I told her that saying in English that an ounce of prevention is worth of pound of cure. And, with this statement by the abbot, it seems to me that an enlightened person would know how to take care of his or her health, so that he or she wouldn't need to do anything when they get sick. I guess my uncertainties, my mixed feelings are showing. I do realize Buddha ate cooked food and yet still woke up.

I used to attend SLiFE (S.F. Living Foods Enthusiasts) potlucks on Sundays years ago. There was always a speaker. One Sunday a guy who had tried this way of eating raw and that way, but eventually settled on Instincto eating spoke to the group who had come to the potluck / raw food talk. Instinctive theory, has always seemed so logical to me. I don't go for the meat part, but the "instinctive" part seems so sensible. Anyway, after this guy spoke, I told him that Buddha ate cooked food yet still woke up. The guy said something like, "Yeah, but think how much sooner he would'a woke up had he eaten raw food." Who can argue with a statement like this? I can only suppose that it's likely to be a valid thing to say.

I haven't started my one year as a novice yet. Looks like I won't be able to start until August. But I have a pretty strong feeling that it's gonna be a doozy of a 12 months. A real doozy!



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

Hey, Troy. I hope you are enjoying yourself in South Korea.

It seems to me that lack of understanding of critical thinking is the core problem to all of the world's suffering. Too many assumptions based on observations, assumptions that are not correct.

Take care!

Hi Troy,
Great to hear from you! Your posts are always interesting and insightful.

I recently heard an audio talk by Adyashanti, a spiritual teacher in the Zen tradition that I really like online. In this talk he focused on the subject of enlightenment, and he observed that he's seen close-up that many people become enlightened to a high degree, and yet they often still retain a set of beliefs that are illusory or even highly logcal. Perhaps the enlightened state doesn't actually confer wisdom on the practical, 'worldly' level.

My experience with spiritual teachers seems to have confirmed something very similar to this-- it's always seemed to me that most of the teachers are still highly conditioned by their culture and upbringing when it comes to practical matters. In the Buddhist world, rice is revered, I suppose, partially because the Buddha is rumored to have eaten a lot of it.

My first spiritual teacher, a Hindu guru, turned out to be about as unenlightened as you could immagine. He was vegetarian and ate a lot of cooked carbs, lost all of his teeth and had diabetes. My second teacher, a Tibetan Lama, was quite healthy and ate beef almost every night for dinner-- and he was an astoundingly realized being, to my observation and experience of living in his presence for a few months. My third spiritual teacher, a Pakistani guru of a Sufi lineage, ate rice, vegetables and a little bit of meat, smoked cigareetes and drank coffee, looked only moderately healthy, and yet he had quite an ability, at least on the psychic plane, to heal and positively affect people.

Not sure this makes sense or helps in any way, but thought I'd share...

Best regards,

Sharrhan:


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troy wrote:

I don't know of any person, Buddhist or otherwise, who has been enlightened and has endorsed raw foods. With the possible exception of Jesus.


Troy,

have you read "Sidhartha" by herman hesse? there is a reference to sidhartha eatting only raw food there. i dont know if sidhartha was a real person but he does attain enlightenment in the book. its a great book. you should read it if you have not already.

camille

may i inquire as to why you are there, troy?

and what enlightenment means to people here?

here's some interesting words from wiki:

Enlightenment (or brightening) broadly means the acquisition of new wisdom or understanding enabling clarity of perception....

As per another emerging thought stream, "enlightenment", in conventional sense of complete realization, is impossible because "complete" is a state which never comes. The immediate next moment brings new beginning and may bring new truths as well. It may result in further requirement and scope of psychological and spiritual developement beyond anything known till date.[citation needed]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2007 09:10PM by fresh.

interesting fresh

if you think about it, the word ENLIGHTENMENT, is just that

it is a word

what meaning we bring to it will result in how we perceive it

some will even say that the moment a baby is born, it is enlightened and that people will meditate for long periods of time in order to get back to their original state which is

innocence ( like a newborn)

in that case, we were all ALREADY enlightened


troysantos:

it must be frustrating for you to hear such a thing when you know otherwise

just remember though, that the abbot is living in his OWN paradigm

he just told you his opinion and i'm sure he believes in it wholeheartedly otherwise he would not have told you so

but that shouldn't deter you from pursuing your OWN path and continually searchin

i think an enlightened person ultimately derives their OWN meaning of what enlightenment is all about

I have read these comments but will not respond yet. I don't have time to adequately say much. I'll copy this onto my hard disk then respond later.

I want to say this one thing though. LAV, this is relevant to what you said about babies. I heard a guy give a Dharma Talk on a podcast. He said that some parents had just given birth to a second child. The first was about 2 or 3 years old. She enjoyed spending time with the newest, the just born child. She'd wanted to spend time with the youngest alone. So she asked her parents. Her parents didn't know what to do. So they asked a professional. Psychologist or what I forget. But the advice was to put some sort of recording machine in the room so as to monitor the two children. So the parents did this.

The older girl said to the baby something like, "Please tell me about God. I have been forgetting." Something like this. Makes me a little teary-eyed.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

troysantos:

<<The older girl said to the baby something like, "Please tell me about God. I have been forgetting." Something like this. Makes me a little teary-eyed.>>

yeah... makes me smile

i've been forgetting too
no wonder i kinda get a kick when i start remembering my past
especially when i was around that age 2 or 3 trying to climb out of my crib etc.

it was one of the the closest i was to touching the clouds

but i haven't forgotten everything ( smirk

I haven't forgotten everything either.

TroySantos,

I think No. 2 - he is prodding you.

My teacher said more people he knows get into dietary purity than anything else. I think he said that to give my ego a (loving) knock. I know he wants the best for all sentient beings so I always smile now when I get that kind of thing and go back to counting my breath.

Having said that I fully intend to keep eating raw, I get plenty of practice with hunger and it is making me stronger all around. Maybe I'll have to let go of it one day but not right now, no way.

Dulset