i recently had to sever off a friendship COMPLETELY
because a person did not honor his end of a deal that we had made

it involved pooling our skills etc.

i just assumed that it was on an "honor" basis

how silly of me

good thing it wasn't such a BIG deal for me but it still surprised me

i would do my part

and he would do his part

and that would be that

well, let's just say that i did MY part

but when it came for him to do HIS part, it was NOT honored

and then, he wishes to use my skills for this project AGAIN?

wow... I was surprised ( but not really)


i told him point blank " you gave me your word and you did not honor it therefore I will not be doing my part AGAIN"

he did not protest very loudly at all because it was true

and it was impossible to deny

however, he did act as if i was "unforgiving"

well... tough

i don't allow myself to be trod upon

i had to sever off that completely

because i could see it was going down the wrong direction

it just surprised me that someone would be shocked that i would say NO

when someone was not holding their end of the promise

this is just a manifestation of my own self respect

and also, if i can't keep him to his word

this whole thing is useless

but it still kind of ruffled me

i was proud of having stood up for myself ( it really wasn't that hard to do)

but at the same time, it left a bad feeling

and i just want to avoid him now ( which can be kind of tricky )

at the same time, i just want to say "hey.. no hard feelings, i just did what i did to respect myself"

but i somehow am at a loss for words

if this was just the first time he did this, it would not have been too bad

but he has kind of slipped on his words a few other times prior and that is not cool with me

so... instead of just putting up with this.. i just had to say

sayonara

i wonder how one can still be 'friends" when a deal goes bad or is disrespected

i don't think it is possible

it wasn't just that

i had the feeling that he expected me to do all the work , put in the time, energy etc. because he said " well.. you are better at that than i am.."

blah blah blah

no... i'm sorry.. there are plenty of people around me that have varying skills but if i make a deal with them to trade skills or whatever

i NEVER use that as an excuse and say " well, geeezz. you are real good at this or that... so... i think i will just let you do all the work and not do my part"

anyhow...

like i said, i took a stance and i did not apologize for severing the ties ( i did it as cordially as i could but still...)

well, whatever...


the thing is.. i had an EPIPHANY

and that is this

there will be people who will disappoint me

this is inevitable

there will be people who will break their promises to me ( for whatever reason)

the most IMPORTANT lesson i learned however which made the incident that i just experience seem like

VERRRRY SMALLL POTATOES

is that it made me that much MORE conscientious of the idea of


Hey... do i honor my OWN promises i make to MYSELF?

do i keep my OWN deadlines that i make for MYSELF?

do i keep my OWN "deals" that i make to MYSELF?



it is easy for me to point the finger at the other person and say " HEY.. YOU DID NOT HONOR YOUR WORDS"

but i would be MORE excited to see myself making solid written CONTRACTS with MYSELF and then honoring THOSE deals.. far more

this is what i learned from this

not to negate or minimize that the other incident was not fun to deal with

but it just affirmed and strengthened my own resolve to be my own BEST BUDDY



any opinions thoughts or suggestions?

on how one deals with others

or how one can parallel this situation to oneself?

it interests me to learn from others

i'd appreciate it

I would send him a giant mental 'Thank-you' for helping you learn something about yourself. Without his actions you might not have made quite the same development and you've definitely benefited from it. So it goes....

Your honest gratitude will probably reach him on some level, spreading even more good.....

Hey veronique, that's a really god point you make about being our own best buddy. I think I agree with you there, and it's interesting to think about making a contract with oneself and be as strict as we are when we have a contract with someone else. Maybe one thing to think about is that we do give ourselves a second chance (or more) when we do things wrong, when we don't keep up our end of the bargain on things, so maybe we could allow other people a second chance as well. It's a tricky situation as to when we are being understanding with someone or when we are being too understanding and not standing up for ourselves. Sometimes we'll be more lenient, other times less so, it's ok. As long as you're true to yourself and happy with the decision you took there shouldn't be a problem. I think communication is always the best policy, and if you explain clearly why you feel the way you do and don't get a satisfactory response, then it's perfectly fine to move on I think. Thanks for sharing your interesting thoughts

Cheers,
J

Hey LaV--
I've been in a somewhat similar situation in a couple of instances over the past 10 years, and it was a major revelation to me that in both situations I realized I needed to sever my relationship with the individual, but once having done that, the 'hard feelings' evaporated and I still felt loving toward my friend; I just couldn't be around them at a particular juncture in their life where they were engaging in behavior that was abusive toward me. Does that make sense-- that you can care about a friend or at least have no hard feelings toward them, while at the same time having to avoid hanging out with them? That was my experience, nevertheless.

Interestingly, one of these people changed considerably for the better, and without having to reconcile or talk about what happened, we're really good friends again-- even better than before.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Those are some heartfelt stories. I think in the case of friendships that there is an ironic side to the phenomenon of trusting and knowing the limits to which the integrity of the relationship allows one to depend on the other. I believe this is to do with the nature of what we expect from the other person and how it governs the actual merit of what we get in return for what we invest.

For example... if for some reason we have an interest which requires that we deal with someone that we understand to be dishonest, every exchange that we make with them will be made with that understanding kept in mind. When this person fails to act honourably, it will come as no supprise and there will be no emotional deficit as a result.

It is only realy through desiring the other person to behave in a specific manner which meets our requirements, such as acting in ways that we use as a signal of their appreciation of us like following through with a verbal commitment or treating us with care rather than abuse that we set the stage that allows for them to fall short of the mark and instill a sense of betrayal.

So one could ponder the question, is it they who are treating us poorly or is it us who are expecting too much of them ? This is a fairly idealistic and simplistic approach to a very involved subject. It can seem impractical to ask for such a clinical approach when one is in the middle of an emotionaly charged situation but I think our negative experience probably stems from ourselves like everything else.

If one can fully accept another EXACTLY as they are then the effects that their actions have on us would take on an entirely new shape. We can't find ourselves in a relationship where we are being treated unfairly if we expect nothing in return for what we are giving. Life is mysterious. I think the key is just to keep on choosing to experience things positively and just take a deep breath and accept all the things that we don't understand as part of the great lesson .

aqua, kwan, light and jose:

thanks a bunch for your great responses
i've read them over a couple of times so it could really sink in and i could get a new perspective. I'm going to re read them again when i get "stuck".

You know I just read somewhere that in order to have integrity with oneself and others, one may

1) have enemies ( because if you don't that means that you are probably agreeing with EVERYONE and pleasing EVERYONE) which may not serve ANYONE. This does not mean that i actively go out seeking enemies. it just means that if it comes to a choice between being faithful to myself and appeasing someone else ( by not calling them on their wrongful behaviour and going along with it) there is not much of a contest there ESPECIALLY if it involves me having to pick up their slack or whatever which was the case that i just experienced.

2) always be in conflict : because even if I cut off a relationship , it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt or that I think

"geeez... maybe i was a bit to harsh... or i ought to apologize for being so straightforward."

but then i think.. " NAAAAAAAHHHH.." I will NEVER apologize for sticking up for myself especially since i took care to state my truth in a respectful manner but i had to be firm about it with ZERO room for misunderstanding that i wanted this deal to be SEVERED.

but still... its not as if i myself have no feelings whatsoever... so these things aren't easy for me... but truly.. it is necessary for my own emotional health to honor myself by not positioning myself in unhealthy situations so i am feeling the sting and i am feeling refereshed and strengthened at the same time: a very strange place to be in...

i'm really feeling grateful to this forum ... really genuinely thoughtful people here...

Hmm... maybe if you could accept EVERYTHING about him it would include the considered implications of harshness that your position has on him. Like maybe it would include the acceptance of his reactions without requiring you to change your decision. Afterall.. you are not responcable for other peoples feelings any more than they are of yours.

I'm not talking about detachment here.. or maybe I am. I guess it could be viewed as such. But I think if you could do this it would allow a genuine harmony or balance to emerge. I like to believe that there is a potential for a state of existence free of conflict in this way. I feel that ultimately, when one party is truely at peace it is mutual.

From what I can see, all human activity is motivated knowingly or unknowingly to understand this truth or return to this state of self knowing. Not to suggest that it is exclusive to humans either. I think that we all seek this ultimate freedom in our everyday lives when we move toward happiness in all its various forms and learn about what it is by what its not within all the things that we resist.

So I don't believe conflict is necessary, only relevant in our chosen path of learning. What do you think ?

hmmm... what a novel idea to be a peace with his response
and that is a leapfrog jump into total acceptance

wow... that created an energetic clearing. i can feel it !


yeah, well actually i have NO DOUBT that i am not responsible for how he feels
i am ABSOLUTELY clear about that

but i still struggle at times with how i feel but like i said, going back to your first statement about accepting his response

pretty neat idea there

its working... in a very interesting way... just these few moments as i thought about it

like some intriguing merging and letting go... instead of head on clashing

much better

thanks for the troubleshooting

aquadecoco:

sending him a mental thank you is also stretching my spirit
but i kind of need too otherwise i suffocate in my own limited way of thinking
so... i just did that

i said "thank you for helping me to see myself in a more clearer light"

it sounded cheezy as heck but what do i care?

all i care is that it works

and it is in some mysterious way ( plus i was ready to make a change in spirit anyhow) which is why i asked for advice




KWAN:

how interesting that you are now friends with the person that kind of broke their promise?

wow... i guess its cuz none of us ( especially me) is perfect and if i reflect on it a bit longer... i guess i could reach that point where i could be friends

but to be honest, right now.. i'm thinking "uhh... i may try being friends in maybe 20 years or so... but not now.. " i need to clear the air a bit LOL
well, it takes me a WHILE to reach THAT point

but it is SUCH an INTRIGUING idea ( though it makes me wince to think about it right now... )

because right now that has as much appeal to me as hugging a can of iridescent green worms ( minus the ketchup and mustard please)



JOSE:

it IS tricky to navigate that perfect balance of understanding and honoring oneself

i don't really know how some people do it on a regular basis ( well... i kind of do know.. it really is like working a muscle and a "fitness" regime

sometimes u improve as u go along.. but still.. a tough call EVERY time


LIGHT


<<I think the key is just to keep on choosing to experience things positively and just take a deep breath and accept all the things that we don't understand as part of the great lesson .>>

this makes me smile
i'm going to meditate on this a LOT

thanks again all

wow.. i can't believe i get all this TOP NOTCH advice for
FREE..

how lucky i am!!

you know, sometimes when i feel that resistance in myself and i really look at it i find that it is completely about me. my fear of confrontation, my fear of being judged and found lacking (by myself and others) and how much importance and weight i give to that. and my fear of vulnerability too. it can seem to be a smart, self-protective move to cut out the people and things that chaff me but ultimately i see the copp out in that (for me mind you, something else may be true for someone else). if i'm really honest with myself, wherever i feel resistance is the exact place i need to go to do some work, to look at the 'why' of my bad feelings and resolve and let it go. it's always some strange truth that i have made up to explain life that is causing me the grief. what i belive to be, what i believe 'should' be, those kinds of thoughts can get me into trouble.

it would be an amazing thing to be able to compartmentalize behavior while still honouring and valuing the essence of what makes someone who they are and why we were drawn to them in the first place. maintaining that unconditional love. that extra knowledge about ourselves, ie that we have bad feelings when we interact with them in a certain way, is, i think, a guide for us about our own behavior and the situations that we create. if i don't like what happens when i do _____ then i can just not do _____ again, never mind what the other people are doing or have done. lesson learned, thank you life. it's about me. i can change it by my own contribution to whatever it is. and that's the best way for me to act, i think it's exactly what i should be doing and those feelings of guilt and doubt about 'letting someone else down' are in direct opposition to what i ultimately think of as the best behavior i can have. i am not giving an honest action when i go against that and the end result will be the most temporary of positives. not only that, i feel that by second guessing how other people are going to feel and react to things i am usurping their power in acting the best way that they can act. they might be confused about what that is but it's up to them to figure it out, not me. sometimes you have to 'let go and let god' as my mama says. things unfold as they should so long as i am over here living my own life and paying attention to what is right for me to do. the rest is none of my business.

that said, i think that sometimes these situations arrise to illustrate the inherent 'wrongness' of a friendship or other relationship (wrong isn't the best word but there you go). i mean by that that sometimes the best thing for us to do is move on from an interaction that we have been hanging onto when it isn't the best thing for us. n/m if we think it is of benefit to someone else, that isn't honest or truly beneficial. sometimes letting go and letting someone drift away is a better idea than stubbornly clinging for no good reason.

many thoughts but a lap full of woken baby distracts me.

Some good thoughts there coco ! We've got alot of stigma and emotional reaction built into everything that we are ! Often things like guilt or feeling responcable for someone seems like a natural extension of compassion yet if you get to the heart of the matter, it is actualy a detrimental psychology for both parties. This is very apparent in relationships where one person depends on another for example.

It seems like a caring relationship when in actual fact the person doing ths supporting is bound to a hoast of vices due to considerations that restrain personal freedom and creative initative leading to a state of enmity. The person who is supported likewise has their own by way of feeling dependant and powerless which also limit creative freedom and therefor happiness.

I think that in bold examples like this it is easy to see, but the issue starts becoming fairly obscure when you start looking at situations with strong moral, cultural, ethical and emotional attachments. When one is presented with say.. a family scenario for example, it can seem outrageous to consider the rights of one parent or the other to act freely without observing the very obvious repercussions it will have on the rest of the family.

My belief in regards to this is that our very line of reasoning which we use to evalutate and judge these situations is limited or incomplete. We percieve it from the vantage of a human being with all of our various failings, and can only see the pain and harm when a child is neglected or when one partner does not support the other. I think that the paradox of harmony and personal freedom is that it requires a full acceptance of these things before they can change.

When both partners could look upon these things and experience it as part of the gift of living a human existance I believe that all would naturaly respond to support them. If both people understood their complete freedom within their relationship the onus of family would become truely voluntary and the commitment for it made purely from desire.

I also think that if people were this perfect they probably wouldn't exist in this mortal plain, or if they did they'd probably be walking avatars
But I base my own philosophy on these ideas and aim to be responcable for everything that I experience. I'm still learning. I like the quote from one of the Richard Bark Stories which goes something like "if you are wondering if your lesson in life has been learned or your purpose fulfilled the answer is.. If your still alive it hasn't".





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2007 03:03AM by Lightform.

well uhh. i AM ALIVE

so uhh.. yeah.... cool

my "friend" ( don't think i can call him that anymore)

showed his 'feelings' by tearing up a bunch of stuff and littering my front porch with it

i took this as a compliment actually

obviously when people stand up for their integrity and for themselves they will sometimes receive a backlash

i stand behind my decision 100% because i did it as respectfully as possible but obviously he wasn't happy about it and still thought we ought to have some sort of "partnership" well... that is tough...and his immaturity just further CONFIRMED that i made the right decision...

i was even going to take a picture of the litter and frame it

it was a testimony to my courage ( because it did take SOME courage to do what i did... though.. to be honest not a WHOLE lot LOL

but decided i didn't want to waste precious energy on pushing the button

It sounds like you did the right thing, especially if you were respectful and diplomatic when explaining why you couldn't work with him anymore. I think that in such a situation, if one is able to use as little confrontation as possible, it helps to communicate one's position without eliciting a backlash from the other person.

I also interpret the torn papers on your porch as an emotional attack on you, and no one likes to be emotionally attacked.

However, that could be viewed as a small price to pay to end a relationship with someone with whom you no longer wish to work.

excellent. just the thing to make things even more clear. he could not have responded better, now you Know where you stand without a doubt.

amazing how some "grown ups" act. i wouldn't expect my 6 year old to behave like this. he comes to me to talk about things when he is upset, even when he is RELLY upset with me. sometimes it takes him a bit to get the words out but he doesn't tear stuff up and have little melt downs.

that dude is incredible. what a temper tantrum.

This isn't my story so it's not completely fair to post it, but it happened long ago and I think this person is incredibly brave, so....(I'll call her Cap).

Cap had a baby, then separated from the father, then had a tubal ligation.

Six years later she fell in love with 'Phil'. Phil moved in with Cap and child and they planned to marry and have more children, so Cap paid to have her tubes rejoined.

Several happy months later, Phil went off to a weekend seminar and there he fell in love with another woman. Needless to say, he not only broke Cap's heart, he also broke Cap's child's heart, with this news. He moved out immediately afterward.

When I went to visit Cap soon after he left, there was a large reminder to herself taped on the wall, that boldy proclaimed, "This is all MY idea and I LOVE it!"

Well, her bravery still astounds me. She was heartbroken and furious over what happened, but she managed to accept responsibility for her feelings. The wording of that message was to remind her that there was a part of her that was much deeper than her emotional self.

Years before this, she had accepted that the world did her the favour of mirroring back to her what she wasn't able to clearly see in herself, and that this favour was a great courtesy to her which enabled her to grow spiritually. She suffered emotionally, of course, but endured it. After the pain subsided, she became great friends with the new couple! That friendship has lasted many years now.

wow other coco, that is brave of her. i know that when the man i loved the most but couldn't, ultimately, be with marries or gets seriously involved it will be a challenge for me to be friends with the couple. i want to do it though, he is important to me and i would like him to be a part of my life forever. it's daunting though, i won't lie about that.

hey coco

thanks for saying that i now KNOW where i stand with him ( for sure)

yeah it did clarify things and i do appreciate you for pointing that out.. it helps

hey aqua

how uncomfortably stunning LOL! that is QUITE a refreshing thing to put what she posted on the fridgadaire ... i am not sure what she meant by " this is all my idea.. because wasn't it HIS also?

i was going to try and modify it to fit my own situation... but .. i am dumbfounded.. i can't think of how i could modify it ...for myself LOL

at any rate, that is ..uh.. so interesting.. i mean... she became FRIENDS with the couple? wow... i'm honestly HIGHLY doubtful that i could pull THAT off

in fact.. uh... no way! is my first response right now... but who knows... crazier things have happened in my life so... yeah..


to be honest, i'm not too big of a fan of 'spiritual growth'
its sometimes just a real pain

but the alternative is not too pretty either ( spiritual stagnation)

so i guess i chose spiritual growth out of default LOL!!

if i REALLY had my choice, i would probably just recede into my little cocoon and sleep ALL day and take intermittent breaks from my sleep to take sips of papaya juice from a little reed straw..

ltf

i guess it is a small price to pay
but actually i didn't have to pull out a single coin

i think the guy just wasted his energy
strewing my porch with his "anger artwork" ( that's what i saw it as)
cuz all i did was sigh and throw it all away

oh aqua.. i couldn't resist parroting what that friend of yours posted on the fridge

IT WAS ALL MY IDEA AND I LOVVEEEE ITTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah!

okay.. i got that out of my system
now i think i'll post that on my fridge too( heee heeeee)

!

i love boldness
even more than all the veggies in my fridgerator LOL

Hey something which came to mind while reading this is that to me, if there is a doubt then there is no doubt. I think that we can all feel whats going on or sense the integrity of others if we stop blocking it out with all our preconceptions.

my mom says something like that. she says "if it isn't yes, it's no." for when you can't make up your mind.

you just reminded me of something oprah said on tv one time. she said "since when is 'ok' 'good'." referring to what passes for a good relationship for some people. that always stuck with me. ok isn't good, only good is good. ok is just...meh.

To me - Okay is good. It can always get worse.

HA HA lois... FUNNY!!!

coco:

okay is not okay
good is not good enough
i like La Fantastique!

hey lightform:

neat saying of when there is a doubt there is no doubt
u are right we all have psychic feelers and antennaes
guess i was just hoping that he would prove me wrong
silly me

well, i'm pretty much over it now

on to bigger and BETTER things ( for sure)

I sort of skimmed through the posts, only because it's 4am and I should probably be in bed.
But I thought I'd throw my hat in the ring, too.

my opinion:

The real enemy here is expectations. If any situation, if we have perfect knowledge, we can not be wrong about our expectations in that situation. Unfortunately, that is pretty rarely the case, so as a result we are forced to guess.

The problem creeps in when we feel pretty certain about something, and then we find out we are wrong. It hurts because we were basically relying on someone else for some sort of outside satisfaction, I think , right?

So I think you hit the nail on the head when you were talking about honouring and loving yourself. If you made yourself perfectly happy, anything anyone else did wouldn't matter! The happier you make yourself, the more it won't matter when other people come through. Although people will be more likely willing to please you because they want to bathe in the happy aura that surrounds your life, so to speak... so long as part of your "self-happiness development program" includes improving your ability to determine whether or not people can be trusted.

Hopefully that makes sense. I need to sleep now. Cheers all!

good point thomas

i do my best ( as far as trying to sense who is to be trusted etc.)
i took a risk

learned from it

and am moving on

its always an exhilarating experience to honor oneself
its like offering oneself a rose ( even if it come with thorns)

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ltf
>
> i guess it is a small price to pay
> but actually i didn't have to pull out a single
> coin
>
> i think the guy just wasted his energy
> strewing my porch with his "anger artwork" (
> that's what i saw it as)
> cuz all i did was sigh and throw it all away

You're right -- the torn papers weren't really an emotional attack on you.

That was all inside him.

this is so true
i thought he was an adult
but you know what?
maybe he liked to release the "child within" ( tantrum attack)

glad he got it out of his system

nothing wrong with that

i have peace of mind now ( since he is not in my life)
he did some releasing

it was a win win situation

i'm doing SO much better without him

Cheers
That's great to hear.