I found this product and several others on a link through PETA. This dog kibble is decscribed as "raw" but the oats are steamed. Am seriously considering trying this type of product and maybe adding whole raw free-range eggs or maybe raw fish occasionally to stop having to buy animal parts :< to feed my dogs.


[www.veggiepup.com]

Anyone else feed their pets veggie foods?

Feeding a dog a "vegetarian" or "vegan" diet is cruel and unnatural. If you have a problem with hormone infested animals or caged animals then spend the extra money on organic/free range meats. If you eat a raw, natural diet for you, why can't your dog?

If you're an animal person, you shouldn't have any problem accepting that in the wild, they hunt and kill "prey animals" as nature intended them to do. Forcing your idea of the ideal diet on an animal is as wrong as feeding store bought kibble. Steamed oats isn't natural or raw. Raw, sprouted oats are natural for rodents and birds who are herbivores. Plus if you knew anything about the way a dog digests foods, you'd understand why GRAINS like OATS are a problem for dogs. There's a reason that "Grain Allergies" are a common problem for dogs.

Feeding a dog a vegan diet is not "cruel" or "unnatural." Most domesticated dogs can live perfectly healthy, natural lives on a raw vegan diet, especially dogs with hair instead of fur and with smaller snouts, such as a Shih-Tzu or Maltese. These dogs in particular have lived on raw vegan diets in the wild, and many dogs brought up vegetarian will never even go near meat.

Also, many carnivorous/omnivorous animals evolve over time into herbivores, chiefly for preservation of their species, as is being seen with many canines. Herbivores are generally smarter and stronger that carnivores or omnivores. The diet change will take place before the organs begin to restructure to adapt the diet better. Plus, if your dog really wants to eat meat, he will do it the natural way and kill his food on his own. I find it a bit hypocritical to speak badly of what is unnatural, yet feed your dog farm-bred animals already killed and packaged for your convenience.

Just about the only thing you hit the target on was the oats thing. All I can say is that you really should do some research before you go and make yourself sound like an idiot. Just a word of advice.

Garrett do you have a dog? and if so, how long has it been on a raw vegan diet...and how is your dogs health? I really doubt our meat loving pals can live very healthfully like that as their digestive tracts and ensymes etc are all geared for raw meats aswell as veggies.
I have a rottie who has eats a raw diet including meat and raw ground bones and veggies. he is in amazing health.
It also seems to me that predators ARE alot smarter that prey

Dogs are Omnivores. So are humans. If Omnivorous humans caneat all veggies, so can dogs. It is the nature of the Omnivore to be nourished by both! It is irritating to see how many people on here (a site for raw vegan humans) are vehement about feeding dogs raw meat and not feeding them veggies (especially in a post about veggie dog food)! I know thriving, beautiful, raw vegetarian dogs.

dogs can indeed survive on a vegetarian diet but as i've said before, there is a huge difference between survive and thrive. i would not like to have someone else's idea of an optimum diet imposed on me to meet some sort of moral ideals and i would therefore not impose my ideals onto an animal via diet. offer a plate of juicer pulp at the same time as a plate of flesh foods to a dog and you will quickly see which most of them prefer. i do believe that it is cruel to try to subvert an animals natural instincts and food preferances because i am uncomfortable being responsible for a meat-based diet for them. why have a carnivorous or omnivorous pet if this is the case? get a gerbil.

not that i think that having captive house pets is vegan anyway but that's a whole other arguement.

if i could just get her to CATCH the squirrels outside i would be set on meat.

but she's 3 legged and domesticated and those wiley squirrels....

rabbits are cheap, i've heard.

i think she could catch one of those.

peace-

gwenqi... where did you come up w/the misinformation that dogs are Omnivores ? They most certainly are not. Dogs are opportunistic carnivores.. ie carnivores that are also scavengers that can eat plant matter, nuts, fruits, etc. It seems you've no knowledge of the difference between the anatomy and digestive systems of humans and canines. They are COMPLETELY different. First of all humans have flat molars for grinding grains and plant matter. Dogs DO NOT. Dogs have teeth built for ripping and tearing meat and crushing bones. Humans have enzymes in their saliva for breaking down food before it reaches the stomach. Dogs DO NOT. By nature dogs do not CHEW food, they rip, tear, crunch and GULP. There is no "Pre-digestive" action that takes place before the food reaches the stomach. Dogs have very strong enzymes and acids in their stomachs that digest meat, bone and hair in a fairly short amount of time. Humans have a very long digestive tract and a long period to digest their foods whereas dogs DO NOT. Their digestive tracts are extremely short and food passes through their systems in a matter of hours. Dogs digestive systems DO NOT... get this >>>> DO NOT have the enzymes necessary for breaking down grains and lots of plant matter and since they have no PREDIGESTIVE enzymes in the mouth, NOR do they CHEW and GRIND because of their lack of the appropriate teeth to do so, they cannot break down this plant matter unless it has been PRE-COOKED or PROCESSED in which case it has lost any nutrients, vitamins, enzymes etc and is useless.

Cats are OBLIGATE carnivores which means they MUST eat a diet of at least 90% meat protein to thrive.

Bottom Line....... Dogs and cats should ALWAYS been fed a BIOLOGICALLY APPROPRIATE Diet for their species. Changing an animal's natural diet to suit someone's moral hangups is IMMORAL and SELFISH.

Dulcet, I have a medium sized dog (40 lbs) who had allergies when I got him from the pound as a puppy. I switched him to grain free food and he got better, then I switched him to raw meat and all his symptoms left. After a year and a half of this (dealing with raw meat) I read Ani Phyo's account in her book about feeding her large dog raw vegan. So I tried it, and love the results. My cuseinart does all the processing(chewing), I make food from soaked sunflower seeds and nuts (they vary) and veggies - her recipe. Oliver loves it and his health is fantastic. He also gets dried sweet potato slices, for ripping and tearing and flax crackers - also her recipes...Really you do not need to depend on commercial kibble (even a raw one) or raw animal parts, for your pet, your pocketbook or your ethics to be happy and healthy.

For all those that have been feeding their dogs "Vegan" for months or years.. Do us all a favor and post pics of your dog's teeth. I'd love to see the tarter that acummulates on them, especially in the back molars. Or ok, tell us how you brush their teeth everyday because in the wild dogs would brush their teeth with tree bark or something.

Garrett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Feeding a dog a vegan diet is not "cruel" or
> "unnatural." Most domesticated dogs can live
> perfectly healthy, natural lives on a raw vegan
> diet, especially dogs with hair instead of fur and
> with smaller snouts, such as a Shih-Tzu or
> Maltese. These dogs in particular have lived on
> raw vegan diets in the wild, and many dogs brought
> up vegetarian will never even go near meat.
>
> Also, many carnivorous/omnivorous animals evolve
> over time into herbivores, chiefly for
> preservation of their species, as is being seen
> with many canines. Herbivores are generally
> smarter and stronger that carnivores or omnivores.
> The diet change will take place before the organs
> begin to restructure to adapt the diet better.
> Plus, if your dog really wants to eat meat, he
> will do it the natural way and kill his food on
> his own. I find it a bit hypocritical to speak
> badly of what is unnatural, yet feed your dog
> farm-bred animals already killed and packaged for
> your convenience.
>
> Just about the only thing you hit the target on
> was the oats thing. All I can say is that you
> really should do some research before you go and
> make yourself sound like an idiot. Just a word of
> advice.


2 of my dogs naturally did hunt, kill and eat their own food. Why do you think most dogs have the instinct to chase a bird or a rabbit when they see it run? To play tag with? LOL. My 3rd dog had to learn how to eat a dead animal from watching the other dogs do it.

I feed my dogs farm bred animals because it's convenient just like for me it's convenient buying my "farm grown produce already packaged" at the grocery store or farmer's market. How is me buying a bag of carrots any different than buying a bag of chicken thighs? These days not many people have the lifestyle of farming all day, growing their own food and live in a safe area where their pets can hunt their own food without being run over by a car. And I'm the idiot? LOL

Dogs evolved from wolves, saying they evolved to eat fruits and vegetables is like saying we "evolved" to eat fried chicken and pizza. I don't know where you get your info from but Malteses were originally bred to hunt rodents..which would mean they'd eat them too just like Beagles hunt and eat rabbits.

You're right, once they eat vegetarian many of them won't touch raw meat..just like how many dogs and cats brought up on kibble won't touch "people food", raw meat or vegetables. Just like children who are brought up on Mcdonalds, candy and milk also will not touch vegetables. Like the little girl on the commercial.."I don't like broccoli" but she likes her unnatural vitamin drink. Dogs used to eating kibble don't know what real food is. The 'they like it" reason is pretty dumb since many dogs are also attracted to chocolate and anti-freeze for whatever reason.

I don't understand why some people have such a difficult time accepting that in nature, all living things die and are ultimately eaten by other living things. Even insects, maggots, and microscopic organisms feed on animals. If there were no meat eaters, the entire food chain and ecosystem would cease to function. Some animals are carnivores, some are omnivores, and some are herbivores, simply because that's the way they evolved in nature. The problem isn't that dogs need to eat meat, it's that humans engage in cruel practices to provide meat. Cruelty to animals needs to be eliminated. We should ensure that the animals we intend to butcher and consume have a pleasant life, and are dispatched in a quick, painless manner, without fore-knowledge that they are in jeopardy. We should also radically reduce our meat intake. We eat, and waste, far too much. We need to practice moderation and respect for nature. Persons who choose to have a carnivorous pet owe it to the animal to provide it with meat. If they can't manage to do that, then they should get an herbivorous pet. I noticed that someone recommended gerbils, but they eat their own young if given the chance, so that might not work out. Maybe a bunny?

It is a myth, that dogs are omnivores. I used to think the same thing, until I did some research. They will consume a wide range of foodstuffs, as they are opportunistic eaters, but they do not require any foods other than meat for optimum health. Therefore, eliminating meat from a dog's diet altogether is irresponsible. It's experimentation, and possibly cruel.

Hi, I just want to say that my dog gets a cup of raw, crushed (thru my GreenLife) veggies/sunflower and pumpkin seeds daily and he does get a vegetarian meal for breakfast but also gets some meat in his evening meal. LivingLight can you share some of the recipes from Ani? I think dogs can be omnivores but that it may be safer to include a little animal product in their diet. I bought a book by one raw food person and she recommended even giving macademia nuts which are poisonous to dogs so I returned it and also wrote to her and told her she was giving dangerous advice
anne

This is a useless argument.
If you dog thrives on raw meat feed them that.
I have a large farm and my dog has access to unlimited rabbits,turkey,deer or whatever.
Zippy is a tracking hunting dog by nature.

my dog really has no desire for meat.
I was a friends house a month ago with some freshly hunted deer.
Had her offer a piece to him he would not eat it. Cooked he still would not eat it.

Zippy was at the vet for his wellness exam and he is listed in exceptional health.
Vet mentioned his gums and teeth were very healthy.
Zippy likes to chew on sticks to clean his teeth.

So I guess if he is supposed to eat meat some one needs to show and teach him to.


He eats mostly what I eat and likes to exercise with me and will do miles when I just walk.

LikeItOrNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For all those that have been feeding their dogs
> "Vegan" for months or years.. Do us all a favor
> and post pics of your dog's teeth. I'd love to see
> the tarter that acummulates on them, especially in
> the back molars. Or ok, tell us how you brush
> their teeth everyday because in the wild dogs
> would brush their teeth with tree bark or
> something.


In the wild, their lifespans would be 2-5 years.

My collie is 11, he has beautiful teeth. He is not
completely vegan but he is much more so than most dogs.

They can be healthy and vegan, But they do need supplements
in that case.

I want to alert you to the fact that Ani Phyo feeds her dog kibble now, go to her Facebook and check it out. Her diet in her book for dogs was fine short term but the dog would not have been healthy long term Personally I feed a little raw meat to my dog daily along with crushed raw veggies and other things OR I feed Honest Kitchen dehydrated food.

When I was living a hippie lifestyle in Darwin Oz in 1973-4, we used to feed our dog (Gunja) and cat (Moon) all our vegie scraps as well as the food we ate. Gunja particularly liked tomatoes, but you have never seen a healthier dog or cat. They were full of life, and their coats were shiny.

Cheers,
geo

My dog (chihuahua) ate kibble and a variety of fairly healthy table food, and we found a small tumor on her. I had been switching myself over to a raw diet with a lot of health improvements, so we decided to try a raw vegan diet for her as well because we really wanted to avoid the chemo/surgery route with her.

Not only has her tumor shrunk by over half, but she acts like a puppy again! She also became much more interested in other dogs, when before she just ignored them, and she has been much more loving with us and much bolder in her decisions. (She used to be scared to go down stairs and couldn't jump on the bed and now she does it with no problem.) She just seems so much happier and also her breath has improved.

Her raw diet is entirely vegan and she loves it! I don't disagree that a raw meat diet is much healthier than a standard diet for dogs. But, in a small study of vegan dogs, they had much fewer incidents of cancer, heart disease, and in general a longer lifespan than the average dog on the standard american dog food diet. Also the longest lived lab in the world was a vegan dog, so to say it's cruel or abusive at this point is just untrue. I'm not trying to start an argument, but my dog is a raw food vegan, and she loves it, and she's never been healthier or happier. She regularly goes on half marathon hikes with me and has plenty of energy by the end.

Chef Sal feeds them Raw Food for Dogs

Check that out at ...

[www.evolvewithflavor.com]