LOL, i don`t think i`ll ever get my papillon to eat kibble again! my golden, diva would..she`s so easy going everything is cool to her! like jodi says, her stool will normalize...or what we call normal n kibble anyways. if it doesn`t add some more bone to her diet...calcium is a stool hardener...she might react to kibble and raw in the same day. hard to say...some do and some don`t. also if the skin is on the chicken it adds fat and some dogs react to fat.
patty

Thanks for the info. She finally ate the kibble this morning. It was funny. She kept wathcing me open and close the refrigerator...waiting. She even stuck her head into the refrig. Finally, she ate. I don't know if I should give her one more meal of kibble tonight since she didn't eat yesterday evening...or if it would be okay to give her the chicken. I guess there's really no way to know for sure. What do you think?

I wish my husband was this easy to transition to raw!

islandgirl Wrote:
I don't know if I should give her one more
> meal of kibble tonight since she didn't eat
> yesterday evening...or if it would be okay to give
> her the chicken. I guess there's really no way to
> know for sure. What do you think?

she`ll be fine either way. a dog missing a meal is no big deal unless they`re so skinny and emancipated. in fact there are alot of feeders that only feed once a day. only time that creates a problem is in some toy breeds they get hypoglycemic if not fed twice a day and my dogs get ill if they don`t eat twice a day...you just have to know your dog good luck
patty

if you can find the books in the liabrary

juliet de barclay levi has written a couple of books on dogs, cats , livestock feeding them naturally

giving a dog a day or so break from food is not starving them its actually good for all animals (once ina while ) to have a short fast and let the systems rest

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Its funny because on the kibble, she is hungry and wants to eat hours before its time for me to feed her. The chicken seems to keep her full longer. She is driving me nuts...stalking the refrigerator! This is just too funny!

islandgirl Wrote:

> She is driving me nuts...stalking the
> refrigerator! This is just too funny!

LOL...cuz she`s tasted real food...my papillon fred jumps continually up and down like a bouncy ball about 3 ft into the air rebounding off my thigh until he gets his food LOL. jodi`s right, there are alot of good books about animal nutrition if you want to or can delve deeper. just remember though that there are alot of opinions and controversy on the subject so you may get confused
patty

hows da doggie doin

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

She is doing good...and seems to be feeling better. We are still doing 2 meals raw (dinner / breakfast) and 2 kibble (dinner / breakfast). It will be one week on Thurs. I am watching her stools. When they get to be consistent, I will give her more raw.

hey, ok, ive started my dog (and cat) on raw food, ground beef, liver, and i chicken leg, plus viamains, BUT, i've also been giving him kibble, wheat, corn, rice free... and now you're telling me i shouldn't combine the two? here i thought i was doing good, (also added cooked sweet potatoes, collard greens, bananas and blueberries,( my dog's name is HOOVER, for a reason) i also too, add some apple cider vinegar.. but getting back to the point, i shouldn't feed him kibble AND the raw stuff? dang, am i making him worse? he has had a yeast infection and the allergy dog food the vet sold me, plus the pills didn't fix it. so i got a holistic vet and she gave me enzymes and some other pills plus i found a recipe for curing it, and that's when i started on this raw stuff, but i really th ought giving him kibble too was good, i only give him about 2 heaping tablespoons of the "goop" stuff.. p.s. my cats love their raw food, i have kibble out for them (also no by products etc) incase they need to nibble, with the cat food tho i add turine and other stuff. oh, will i need to add more things to the raw diet? i give hoover vitamin b, fish oil,vitabin e and the enyzmes. thanks lola

lolasea,

im not sure what the answer to your question is, but i would think the
more raw, the better. is your plan to transition them to 100% raw?

my pup went cold turkey off the kibble without a blink. but we are
taking more time going from the processed raw medallions to the
raw meaty bones. at this point she gets the RMB one meal a day
and the medallion the other meal. she also gets yogurt, eggs,
steaamed veggies, fruit and recreational bones.

she absolutely loves her raw food. her fur is radiant now, and
her teeth went from nearly black to literally glowing white.
if i weren't a vegan, i'd consider gnawing those RMB myself!!

I started my dog on raw food last year. I used a dry kibble at first (Flint River) then used a modified recipe from this site :[www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com]. I also purchased a raw food called STella and Chewy's. I also used antoher brand that hand salmon in it. They tend to be expensive but my dog loved them. He has weight issues so i have switched him to a limited diet of dry kibble. I would take the raw foood and put a 1/2 c. of weak green tea on it and some Omega 3 and 6 oils. I still use the oil. WE also used Nature's Variety Beef and he loved it. He does not have any issues with his stools except for one brand. I don't want to use their name but it is a popular brand. He became constipated and I ended up throwing away the food. There is another brand he liked but I cannot remember the name (pete's I think). I generally mix raw a few days then dry. My dog has tartar problems even with brushing. He did not start a raw diet until 6 and had no transition issues.

lolasea Wrote:
now you're telling
> me i shouldn't combine the two? dang, am i making him worse?

depends on who you ask LOL. i`m on several natural dog feeding sites and one will say no don`t feed them together because of the different rates of digestive times and the digestive enzymes needed for different things found in kibble. one school of thought is that it takes alot longer to digest kibble so the raw will sit in the gut and get rancid and cause digestive upsets. some dogs are bothered by it some aren`t. another list will say that it`s a myth, it`s totally fine to mix. yet another will say, feed one type for bkfst and the other for dinner. one will say dogs don`t need vegees and one will say they do in a small quantity. my advice is to research and make your own choice using facts and logic. i won`t feed my dogs kibble....ive researched too much and know too many disgusting things about the dog food preparation methods to be able to feed kibble comfortably. i also had a very scary experience at the time of the huge dog food recall and i just don`t trust anyone anymore where my furkids are concerned.i don`t strictly raw feed either. i home cook for bkfst and i give raw at dinner. my dogs thrive and can`t wait to eat.
patty

so when making your dog food, do you add any special vitamins? stuff that dogs need that the normal persong wouldn't really know? like taurine for cats, what is that? anyway, i'm not into health stuff, but i want my "kids" to be healthy, i'm still having a problem w/ the yeast infection on hoover (cat has hyper thyroid) i got some natural yougurt, but in'mnot sure if that's the thing to do? i also will be making new goop, as the stuff now has some fruit in it, which can have natural sugar, so anyway, what was i asking? oh yeah, do you add anything to your raw diet. thanks so much this has been a great site for me to find things out. thanks again.

i'be been on the computer way to long now.. you seem very knowledgeable (?) i've tried lots of web sites to try to find out what is best to "cure" yeast infections.. a few months ago i read about certain vitamins.. i lost the recipe, and my dog is still bad, i do know that it could take as long as 1 month per year. but.. he is now eating raw and taking lots of supplements,plus vitamin b, i also read apple cider vinegar is good, so he is getting that mixed in w/ his meal. then i read yougurt.. hmmm so i have tried that, but i'm worried it might just feed he yeast .. poor guy hasn't been swimming all summer, and he loves the water. i'm afraid to give him a bath, as yeast loves moisture. he is almost better, except for his bright pink inside of the ears, and right under his chin/neck. any advice would be good. from anyone who has had this problem.. thanks so much all these people on this web site are so great.. i'm so glad i found you all!!!!!!lola

i`m not experienced with yeast but i think the best you can do for him is to feed a species appropriate diet which would be meat meat and more meat plus calcium and organ meats like gizzards heart liver (which tends to loosen the stools alot so be careful or you`ll have the runs to clean up after). go really simple for a month and see if his yeast problem clears. try giving him either just chicken, raw or if you`re uncomfortable doing that boil the chicken, debone it, cook some plain rice and feed him chicken a rice for a few weeks and see what happens. yeasty ears can be taken care of with the purple power solution [www.woodhavenlabs.com]
as far as supplements here`s what i add but i`m not convinced it`s necessary...i add bone meal for calcium and i add an all around vitamin/mineral supplement. i give a fish meal once a week also.
patty

hey; thanks for the help .. getting back to the raw diet, god i feel so stupid.. can i mix chicken in with the beef? i have some beefy goop left, but just went and got more chicken. do i need to blend it? or jsut cut it up? and i think i will give him the goop stuff in the a.m. and then 2 cups of kblle at dinner, that way he will still get all the vitamisn from the kibble,( it's the good kind, wellness, no grains, no rice no corn no wheat. he's allergic) no by products, etc. anyway.. i'm gonna go to the book store this week and try to find a book on nutrition. you all have been so helpful, any suggestions on books? thanks again lola.

no need to feel stupid! yes, you can mix. just be careful because some dogs can`t handle quick switches or the introduction of a buttload of new foods. chicken is the easiest to digest, that`s why they recommend starting with it. plus the bones are relatively soft so it`s good on their teeth and easy also to digest, plus it`s widely available for a decent price no need to blend california natural made by natura is also a great high end kibble for allergy sufferers (in case you ever want to change for the sake of mixing it up a little) 2 cups at dinner? be careful with the weight issue. usually with the high end kibbles you don`t need as much food. my golden was getting one cup per feeding and she weighs 65-70 lbs. the majority of my learning has been on the net and on various raw groups so i can`t recommend many books i`m afraid. also depends on who`s school of thought you`re going to follow...billinghurst is one, there are bunches though. just make sure they`re not trying to sell you all kinds of supplements and make it seem all difficult and such...just like the vegan way, people tend to make it complicated when it`s really not that difficult. do a bit of research on what the canine is species wise and try to mimic what he would eat here`s some websites to get you started if you want. the first is a die hard raw species list with some very educated and very opinionated people and very passionate about the proper diet for a true carnivore...just warning you they however are extremely smart and have put alot of energy into research.
[pets.groups.yahoo.com]

[www.rawfed.com]

[www.rawfed.com]

[www.njboxers.com]

thanks, i've been doing so much reading.. now i t hink i'm giving my dog too much liver.. i read something like 10 %, i think i was giving him way to much more, so i got some (had) some boneless thigh and breast and i cut that up, w/ hamb meat, then added spinach, crrots, fresh peas and bananas i'll lay off the liver for now, i also got a scale, so i can really do it right, he's been eating raw since i reckon june, that's when he got his allergy test and the yeast infection. so i read up on that, and found out all this stuff..(for my cats too) and tho it is time consuming i make sure i have the time to do this,( i have my own pet sitting business, so after the morning "run" in stead of taking a nap, i do the pet food, then it's time to go out and do the afternoon/evening stuff)anyway, i still can't see a difference in his appearence, or energy level, or anything, but iknow he has to be healthier.. dong all this made me start taking vitamins too.. (i'm a chocoholic and proud of it) so i dont' eat right at all!! just milk w/the cookies..also, thanks so much for the web sites.. i'll be talking to ya L

dewey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> as you move into complete raw make sure
> she`s getting adequate raw meaty bones....meaning
> alot of meat wrapped around a bone...for her
> calcium.

I was wondering does this mean red meat on the bone.. like you buy at the butcher shop, or are you still talking about chicken on the bone?? and exactly what part of the chicken would this be??

Thanks.... Elayne

Custom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I was wondering does this mean red meat on the
> bone.. like you buy at the butcher shop, or are
> you still talking about chicken on the bone?? and
> exactly what part of the chicken would this be??
>
>
> Thanks.... Elayne

like a bone in rump roast, pork roast, and the like. if you can see the bone chances are it`s too much bone and not enough meat. as far as chicken goes chicken quarters, chicken halves, whole chickens etc. again, there are many schools of thought on the "right" way to feed puppers. heart and lung and tripe is also considered muscle meat even though they`re organs. liver is considered an organ and should be 5% of their diet. there is prepared raw but the problem i have with that is it doesn`t clean and work their teeth cuz the bones are ground and it`s expensive. there is dehydrated raw where all you do is add water. many schools of thought.
good luck in your research

the closer to natural the better

see if you cant find a book at your liabrary from Juliette Debarclay-Levi about feeding cats adn dogs the natural way .. i cant remember the title but shes only written 3 or 4 books about pets and livestock

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

thanks dewey and jgunn for your suggestions and for clearing up the meat on bone question...

Elayne

Jgunn Wrote:

> see if you cant find a book at your liabrary from
> Juliette Debarclay-Levi about feeding cats adn
> dogs the natural way .. i cant remember the title
> but shes only written 3 or 4 books about pets and
> livestock

tim/tom landsdale or lonsdale or something like that is a good one too. billinghurst is another but he adds alot of supplements and such. i`ll see if i can track down some more...i know i have them, just a matter of finding them.

after several weeks now of being on the RMB
(chicken necks, wings and backs) with steamed veg
and a raw egg here and there,
all with great improvement in her over health
ESP her teeth,
last night as my little chi/minpin was finishing her chicken back
she let out a very loud scream and
ran far under the sofa shaking
i could not reach her but watched her
licking her lips like maybe she was salivating
she came out when i offered her veggies
and after a checkover, seemed ok and stopped licking her lips

she's always been very good at carefully chewing the RMB
but now im afraid to give them to her even though i know she's thriving
i'd read not to cut them bite sized as they are
more likely to choke and miss out on dental benefits

any suggestions or explanations of what ccould have happened?

she probably caught her lip on her tooth .. my mother in law has a shitzu who always does this heh .. just flip up her lips and check an check her gums tongue , roof of mouth , under the tongue .. if you dont see anything major i wouldnt worry about it ..

its kinda like when we bite our tongues or inside of cheek .. it hurts ! lol

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

thanks jodi, i think you're right
she prob bit her tongue

It is the bones in cooked chicken that are dry and brittle. My dogs chew their food and break the raw bones. The marrow is full of great nutrition, and the calcium in chicken backs and necks is equal to the phosphorus in the meats. I have a blog that I have lost the password to, but most of my "Bones and Raw Foods" info is there. www.healthdog.blogspot.com

Peachy