Hello all!
I love this raw forum-so much wisdom and love! I`ve been wondering lately about the deal with cacao. I`ve heard a lot of negative comments about it that seem very logical. I can go so far as to say that in small quanities it`s okay and maybe even " healthy" but I`ve been hearing so much about how it`s the wonder food, supefood, how transforming it is blah blah blah
I mean please-that`s crazy. I think the way to spread the raw message is to basically focus on fruits and veggies-get even people that aren`t raw or vegan to simply add more fresh veggies and fruits. This new raw idea of a " miracle food" is simply getting the idea across that raw is just another " celebrity diet" or " special diet" which is really not the case-it`s natural and simple!
Anyway any comments on this cacao thing will really help me as I`m still open to the whole debate! Thanks and lotsa raw fresh vibes to ya`ll...

Cacao is most definatley a stimulant rich in alkaloids like any drug. Like any drug, it is both useful and shamanic, and it holds potential for abuse. While it's not addicting physically, it's not something you want to burn out on and eat abundantly...To me, it's like ritual type of a thing, or a tool to use when I need that extra oomph for a day that seems like it's going to be stressful. There are other things you can rotate in your diet that are stimulating and give you a variety of oomph so you don't burn out on anything. Tonic herbs are my favorites.

Also, i think that chocolate is by FAR, one of the best foods to turn people onto a raw diet...and it is nothing short of a miracle to me. What could excite a person more than chocolate? What gives people quicker results than a dank chocolate drink? Green juice maybe, but people dont want to do green juice right away. Is fasting a healthier way to stimulate the mind by releasing dopamine and making the body think it needs to get clever to find food... yes. A clean mind is a much healthier buzz. But people don't want to go through all that right away. This is America, we want things now...and cacao is very, very now...Fruits and vegetables have no zing to them. They don't sound appealing. Make me a raw fudge and you might convince me that your a reasonable human being. It's also very filling and a GREAT beginner food!!!

I also feel like, if your like me and you like to eat cacao for a couple days straight sometimes, it's important to have a healthy nervous system and balance your system out a lot by practicing a little bit of alchemy. I do raw organic egg yolks a lot and I find they help not make my nerves feel jarred and attacked by overstimulation. Goji berries and bee pollen are also great candidates for this. Some people say cacao is overstimulating to the nervous system...I say well yeah, if you don't have a healthy nervous system...

It seems many of the people who knock raw cacao have never tried it.

I agree with Alex, it's not exactally an everyday food but quite enjoyable once in awhile. Variety is the spice of life.

It's also a great way of getting people interested in raw food. When people hear you are raw they go, oh so you can't eat this and you can't eat that and you can't eat chocolate. Wrong. We can eat amazing chocolate. I have a friend who has a shop in Brighton (England) called Raw Magic, they sell all sorts of raw stuff but their speciality is chocolate. I was talking to someone (non-raw) the other day who has started buying chocolate from this shop and thinks it's amazing. Now he wants to become a raw fooder.

I agree that cacao should not form the main part of your diet, but it's better than eating cooked chocolate bars and probably has some good stuff in it too (eg magnesium).

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

Well, not to rain on anyone's parade, but even though you guys are some rockin' raw fooders and all that, I can hear your addictive minds talking.

You are coming up with reasons to support ingesting a substance that is more a drug than a food. And I will admit that they are very clever reasons!

For myself, I now want to do what is optimal and most loving/nuturing for my precious body and mind after a lifetime of so much harm.

I prefer to eat only fruits and occasionally some tender greens. Being healthy and "clean" is the ultimate high, the most perfect bliss (!) and ingesting anything else will take you out of your natural high. Most people don't know what it is like to be their true, happy and healthy selves. This can only be discovered with a purifed system. And it is worth whatever it takes to get yourself there.

A while back I tried some "raw chocolate" and I couldn't stand the way it made me feel. I felt like I had been poisoned. It was a VERY unpleasant experience. Wow. Never again!

So I do understand where you are coming from and to each his own, but for those readers out there who are truly seeking the best for themselves and want to know what is "correct," I'm here to say that cacao and chocolate are not healthful substances.

Would you give it to a baby?



Love,
Julie

Wow!"wouldyougiveittoababy"doesitforme...
woah,myspacebarisn'tworking!!!funky...

IjustreadafruitarianbookyesterdaythatexpressedwhatyouJuliejusthave...

Ifoundthebook"fruity"andgroovy!!

love,
adriennemummum

Raw cacao is a drug and still is bad even if its raw or cooked.
I stopped selling it on RawfoodAdvantage.com. I cannot sell a product I dont believe in.

hey gonnabe, I left you a voicemail, call me or write me back today.

FruityJules Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, not to rain on anyone's parade, but even
> though you guys are some rockin' raw fooders and
> all that, I can hear your addictive minds
> talking.

I don't believe in "the addictive mind". Whenever anyone accuses another of being addicted to something I can't help but think they're addicted to the concept of addiction.

Cacao can be fun but it doesn't feel healthy to me. Each time I'v tried it I have a runny nose the next day. I felt good when I ate the cacao, but I'm not sure it worth the detox symptoms.

Cacao is a staple in David Wolfe's diet. I don't know how he gets away with eating so much but...

Hi all
Thanks for your comments. I suppose the problem I have with products like cacao is that I am skeptical whether it`s really the nutrients or the money talking so I`d rather hear about it from people on here who are like me, being raw, experimenting etc or famous raw foodists that I reallt trust ( Victoria Bountenko and Jinjee/Storm...)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2006 09:17PM by vegangoddess.

The power of the spirit in this lifetime, the power of love, will enable you to do anything within its realm, which is everything!! The power of manifestation, of cocreating, baby!!

Baby

Well, from talking to people on here and in real life it seams that when it comes to what cacao does to people, there are two very distinct groups - some find cacao has a very negative effect on them and others find it healthful. I eat raw cacao and it does not make me feel like I've "been poisoned" and it does not take me "out of [my] natural high".

Saying things like "a substance that is more a drug than a food" is just sensationalising it. If it doesn't work for you, don't eat it, but you don't know how it affects other people so you can't comment on it!

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

I just thought, I'd like to define "drug" because I think my definition might be different to some other people:

refined sugar, cooked wheat = drugs (stuff which humans have messed around with, processed, etc)

raw cacao, raw cannabis = not drugs (plants in a fairly natural state)

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

I'm worried about eating ANYTHING that is imported from other countries. Don't they irradiate ALL foods, spices and herbs that come into the country now?

I am hoping someone will tell me they don't! However I did hear that all young coconuts that are important are irradiated. ;(

Dear vegangoddess,

Cacao started making me sick to my stomach after eating about 2 tablespoons a day for about 2 weeks. After reading that another person from the forum got wired from it, I looked up the info from a couple of companies:

RawGuru's Raw Food Store says it contains "plant-based stimulants called methylxanthines" including PEA (phenylethylamine, ), theobroma, and (small amounts of) straight cafeine.

Nature's First Law says it contains PEA ("an adrenal-related chemical created within the brain and released when we are in love" [a good hard sell]) as well as "subtle amounts of caffeine and theobromine". They also say the caffeine and theobromine are different when consumed raw (rather than cooked), but they cited only one specific experiment conducted "by homeopaths" where the "homeopaths" concluded that the stimulating effect was actually caused by "aromatic substances released during roasting", i.e. the effects were caused by SMELLING the cacao roasting, rather than by consuming it.

That seems pretty far-fetched to me, and WHO ARE these homeopaths anyway? They don't even use their names. Can't anybody be a homeopath? They don't even say "certified" homeopaths.

I'd take it in very small amounts very infrequently, if at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To 24Carrots (Michele),

Very few foods or spices are irradiated, because it hurts the bottom line. Just a few years ago there were plans here on the Big Island for an irradiator, and the people who were for it were telling everyone irradiation was very common, that all spices were irradiated, etc.

My friends and I bought samples of spices from all the different spice companies we could find at the supermarket and wrote letters to all of those companies. Every single company wrote us back and said they did not and were not planning to ever irradiate any of their foods.

At the time, there were only 2 irradiators in the country - one in Florida that was struggling to stay in business and was continually borrowing money from a Canadian nuclear facility to stay afloat (since the irradiator was using the nuke waste from the Canadian facility to irradiate the food). The last I heard, they did get a contract from some big chicken company to irradiate chickens. The other was a very small experimental facility in Chicago that I believe has long since closed down.

The irradiator that was finally built here used electricity rather than nuke waste, and that company has now gone broke and closed down.

Most fresh fruits and vegetables are difficult to irradiate because it either ruins the food or changes the texture, making it less palatable. Some papayas were irradiated here for a while to kill fruit fly larvae, but steam baths worked as well, and now all papayas are steam processed, rather than irradiated. Some rambutan was irradiated here until the irradiator went down.

As far as the cacao, at least one brand, NATURE'S FIRST LAW, would be breaking US federal law if it were irradiated, because it carries the USDA ORGANIC stamp. Irradiation is not allowed for certified organic.

I don't know about the green coconuts, but there's actually very few food irradiators in the whole world. If the coconuts have a USDA ORGANIC stamp on them, they cannot legally be irradiated. If they don't have a stamp, talk to the produce manager to find out where they came from and then email the company. Make sure you tell them you heard they were irradiated, and I'd be surprised if you didn't hear from them right away.

That said, I agree that it's probably better you and the planet to buy local whenever you can.

-Ally



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2006 03:13AM by Ally.

Wow! Great thread. Thanks for starting it, Vegangoddess.

I was thinking about getting raw cacao when I was in the States last month, but my gut said no. I'm really sensitive to caffeine and really don't want to eat anything that's not optimal right now. I was also unsure about the health benefits it would offer.

Raw cacao may be great for some especially during the early stages of transition. I think if I were new at raw food, I might eat it to curb the sweet cravings - esp. chocolate cravings - until they disappeared. Right now, I get all my sweets from fruit. I think of myself as eating dessert all the time.

Mona

So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key.

Another problem with cacao is that most people need fat and some sort of sugar with it to have it. Yes we need fat, the " good fat" but raw foodists often eat too much of it. It`s funny how we want to be natural and then we eat 2 or 3 avos a day-wild avos are smalllllllll. I don`t think it`s natural or healthy to have so much access to fat such as almond butter, cashew butter etc..
Anyway I digress. I suppose these replies have made me feel that although cacao can be a good product to play around with, it certainly is no superfood and it`s not going to be the food that makes us healthy. That is my struggle with raw food also. I really believe that raw foods are natural and the healhiest but we have not fully understood what foods and how much we need. -as boring as it sounds-veggies/greens and fruits are the way to go....!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2006 02:02PM by vegangoddess.

This post is the kind that always makes me realize thath I am not a raw foodist in philosophy, only in practice. Cacao seems fine to me, I just find it gross in general. THere is a big difference between cocoa and raw cacao, and while I like cocoa (and am willing to have it eveyr once in awhile, even though I generally try to be 100% raw), I find no pleasure in cacao, and so it plays no role in my diet.

As for "drug" -- I have to say that I just don't think it is. The term drug is a pseudo-legal term that has so many socio-political connotations that I don't think that any two people have the exact same opinion on what is a drug. Green juice makes me filled with energy, focused, and happy. That, for many, would mean that it is a drug. Cacao does nothing for me. Therefore, in my estimation, not a drug. Do you see where I am going with this? It is a very personal interpretation of a loaded word frought with emotion and self-imposed values. My take? If you like it and it isn't illegal (and thus won't get you arrested) and you feel like it is "raw enough" (another issue about cacao), then go for it. If not, well, fine, don't eat it, sell it, do anything. But please, don't preach about it either.

Oh, and this weekend was my birthday and I had some tortilla chips (corn) -- not the raw kind but the cooked kind. Now THOSE are drugs!

Raw Daddy -- livin' raw and lovin' it

My wife loves the stuff... it tastes amazing to her in its bean state with nothing added. I however, do not share that feeling. I have to sweeten it to enjoy it which says to me that it's not the best idea for me... I think it's more of a personal thing myself.

Matt

I just read a new article by PaulCacao: Not As Good As You’ve Been Lead To Believe.

The latest and greatest “so-called” super food being promoted in the raw food world is raw
chocolate, also known as cacao. I myself was excited when I first heard about it. But after trying it,
I didn’t feel that great. I asked others how they felt after consuming cacao and there were no
complaints. That was then. After a few months, I started to get more and more complaints from
people who were taking cacao. It didn’t surprise me because chocolate in general is not good for us.
Other than the enzyme issue, why would raw cacao be so healthy for us?

That is when I decided to do research and I found some scary facts. What’s even scarier is that
people are so addicted to it, that even after learning of the high possibility of harmful effects,
they keep consuming it. What concerns me the most is the amount people are eating. If someone
took a pinch, let’s say once a week, then maybe they wouldn’t have to worry. When I see people being
lead to believe that there are many health benefits to consuming tablespoons every day; that is
just crazy!

If you are eating a raw food diet because you want to find a natural toxin that will make you
feel high, then you have found a good product. Beware, because there are many downsides to it. If
you are eating a raw diet for health benefits, consuming chocolate in any form should be off your
list and out of your mind.

In one of the best overall raw guides ever written “Diet by Design: Fruits, Nuts and Natural
Foods” (available at www.rawlife.com) it says the following about cacao:

Chocolate and cacao are outright health hazards due to the chemicals, contaminants, and additives
they contain. The chemicals within chocolate are called methylxanthines. They can be further
classified as theobromine, caffeine, and theophylline, all of which have deleterious effects on the
body. Theobromine is known to cause a host of symptoms including abnormal glandular growth,
nervousness, depression, anxiety, insomnia, gastrointestinal problems, and itching. Caffeine is highly
suspected of being a carcinogen, and is directly linked to heart and circulatory problems,
glandular difficulties, nervous disorders, osteoporosis, birthing abnormalities, and so forth.
Theophylline causes stomach problems, nausea, vomiting, and nervous disorders.

The processing of cacao beans into powder and chocolate is an unsanitary, risky procedure to say
the least. To be blunt-chocolate and cacao are laced with animal feces and hair, insects, and
molds. The carcinogenic mold called aflatoxin has been found in large quantities on cacao beans.

Allowable limits have been set by the FDA regarding rodent feces and insect parts in chocolate
and cocoa! As quoted from Poison With a Capital C, “…every time you eat a chocolate bar, it may
contain a rodent hair and 16 insect parts and still carry the blessing of the FDA.”, and “For
chocolate powder or cakes there must not be more than 75 insect fragments in three tablespoons of
powder.”, and “Four percent of cacao beans may be infested by insects. Animal excreta (such as visible
rat droppings) must not exceed 10 milligrams per pound”.

Now, after learning this information, people will still continue to indulge, making excuses to
keep eating it. Please note I have no reason to write this information, other than to make you
aware of the truth. In fact, I would make a lot of money if I sold raw chocolate and products that
contain it. But I just can’t do that, knowing the truth.

I give lectures all over the world, mostly in the United Stated. I have already giving over 100
lectures this year alone. Just about every lecture I give, I have someone come up to me telling me
that they experienced one or more of the symptoms above after consuming cacao. Now if you are
eating cacao and have not had symptoms, that doesn’t mean it’s okay for you. It’s just a matter of
time, so why not stop now.

It is my passion and my goal to get information about health to as many people as possible. What
you do with that information is your own personal choice Nison...



I was going to buy some and give it another chance but I think I`d rather spend my money on Asian mangoes and organic greens )

Ah, Nison. There's a thread about his article here :

[www.rawfood.com]

Narz...you are funny!!

I'm really sensitive to caffeine so I was never a regular coffee drinker, but cacao doesn't have any effect on me, go figure.

I'm not scared of it, I eat a tsp. maybe at a time with some honey and tahini and it's really good. I don't eat it every day.

I feel fine, no ill effects. YMMV.

swingbolder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm really sensitive to caffeine so I was never a
> regular coffee drinker, but cacao doesn't have any
> effect on me, go figure.

Yeah, I've a friend who is the same as you, really sensitive to caffeine but no problem with cacao!

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

Here's the thing about the cacao arguments, both sides -- I can totally relate to what the nays are saying, and the pro-cacao folks, I can totally relate to that too.

As to the questionability of raw cacao being promoted as healthful, I don't necessarily think of it as unhealthful but I don't see it as holding a candle to fresh fruits, vegetables and greens either.

However, that said, I DO see something unusually healthful in cacao in that it can help people like me (which it has several times) transition from overeating to eating lightly. David Wolfe talked about living on nothing but cacao and honey one summer. When I hear something like that I do NOT imagine him eating bowls full of the stuff, but just smaller amounts throuhout the day or a couple or few times a day and finding that that is enough without the need for other foods.

I took that inspiration and used it to help myself eat less by eat small amounts of my "usual" foods and then having a snack once or twice a day with the raw cacao. Somehow it was easier to let go of the idea of eating large AMOUNTS of food when I did this, and I did this a number of times until eating less seemed and felt normal rather than "not enough." I did that for a couple or few weeks and my roommate says he thinks I lost weight.

And all THAT said, I don't think of cacao as an ideal food for daily life because it seems to digest like sludge. Or is that just me?