I need some help with this. Basically I am so pissed, I guess I want to get some validation or some opinions from this of a more alternative/healthy mindset then the normal standard of body image etc.

I am 5'5" and about 106lbs or so. It fluctuates a little bit but it's usually right around there somewhere. Also my body fat is around 22%. Basically in my mind it is not where I want to be or look my best. I have been sedentary and that is my problem. I am not malnourished and eat daily. I want to gain healthy lean body mass and healthy weight and even reduce my body fat % some. To me that is completely realistic. Gain 5-10lbs of lean body tissue - muscle etc. by weight lifting and eating more etc.

No one around me that I know says anything about me being too thin and is not worried about me. My husband is not worried about me and says I do not have a weight problem, I'm just thin. Thin and out of shape, with too much bf which people don't understand.

O.K. but I've been seeing this stupid shrink and she has me all worked up about it now. I think she is crazy about this issue, not me. She keeps bringing up how she is worried about me because of how underweight I am that she thinks I should see a doctor for a physical because she is worried I might have heart problems because of my weight. This last session I actually started debating her and arguing with her about it because she wouldn't let up and is so unrealistic about it. Sure, perhaps I look real thin because I have no muscle and my arms are weak, but my stats are nothing to worry about I think. She says she is concerned because I don't see that it is a problem or understand how underweight I am. I said that I do know that I am underweight and could use 5-10lbs or so but that I am not worried about because I eat normal and it is my natural weight. Lots of people have my same stats and there are lots of people who are slightly underweight or overweight without it being a huge health concern. She was like - "You think you only need 5lbs? You just don't understand how underweight you are." Then I told her that it's not like I am low fat or anything and told her what my fat % is, and she was like, while sounding like she barely believed it - "That is not the same as seeing a real doctor to find out what problems you have from being underweight. Why are you so adimit about finding out your body fat and stuff and not about finding out about real health problems from a doctor?" I was like - I'm not adimit about that just because I know it, it's a free service and I got it checked a while ago. Everything she said was trying to allude that I have an eating disorder or something and she kept asking about what I eat and what I ate that day and what I ate for dinner the night before etc. It happened that I hadn't eaten yet that day because I was so busy, but usually I eat 5-6 times a day. People freak out about missing any meals. So stupid!

Anyways, I think I'm going to get rid of this quack shrink that I've just wasted a ton of money on to waste my time and insult me. But it's just been bothering me all of the things she said. I've never had an eating disorder and have never even dieted pretty much in my entire life. I lost 20lbs once when I was heavier but I didn't diet or even try to do it, it just happened. I NEVER and have NEVER counted calories or fat grams or worried about gaining weight from any food! EVER! So it just bothers me to no end to be insulted about my weight and my body and treated like there is something wrong with me and I have a problem. I'm skinny, so what!

nik,

If you were to gain 6 pounds, you would no longer be underweight according the BMI tables. You don't need to eat any more food. As you stated, you need muscle building exercises or physical activities. If you are bored with gyms or weight training, check out what Fruitarian One does around fitness.

weight is totally subjective

plenty of people are "underweight" yet strong and healthy

i dont believe the weight charts


i ate the equivalent of michael phelps in raw today
and i weigh 103 5'6
i have tons of great energy too

btw, does your therapist happen to be considered heavy?

So your therapist is an idiot,
but
why does it bother you so much? you might wonder...and wonder...
after all,
you could be spending the hour happily exercising outdoors, as you and Bryan suggest, if you fire her.

I too wonder what the idiot therapist looks like.

Yes,

Bryan is right you need to do more anerobic excercise and eat sufficient calories.

Why listen to those idiots there idea of healthy is the "bloated" look.

fruitgirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> btw, does your therapist happen to be considered
> heavy?

Yes! I mean not fat or super overweight, but certainly on the softer plumper curvier side. People have their own prejudices and viewpoints. Also, of the other 2 patients I've seen of hers that she schedules back to back, they were both quite overweight and fat. I'll bet she's not even worried about them or tells them that even though that is usually a far greater indicator of health problems.

Thanks Bryan. I don't believe in the BMI anyways because it doesn't take in all the factors and is so generic. But if that is the standard how could she balk at me and insult me for saying that I think I only need about another 5 lbs. Even in the standard mainstream BMI that is all about I need to be "normal" by their standards. I should send that to her. I don't know why I am so upset about it all, if it is from being treated like I am crazy and really don't/can't see it or the prejudice against thin women, or just for wasting so much time and money. That's what I was paying $3 a minute to hear. *&@&#@! She even told me I shouldn't lift weights because I was too underweight to, and was worried about my heart. That is exactly what would help me gain weight. I meant eat more because weight training increases your appetite and calorie needs to support the muscle, but I would never eat beyond what my appetite is naturally.

The whole underweight thing is so stupid. By who's standards? If you are healthy and feel good then what does it matter. If you are eating well then that's what matters, your body will dictate what weight it should be at for you as an individual on the right healthy diet. It is very subjective, everyone even always puts down models in general as though they are all the same and all underweight anorexic robot sticks. It's B.S. They are all lumped together, yet a lot of the models look great. Thin but toned and healthy and strong. When you look at real anorexics they are scary and sickly looking, like really scary and shocking. And this brainwashed mindset lumps in all long and lean women with that. Even Keira Knightly who has also always been naturally thin has been accused of being anorexic and she doesn't even look like that to me. I guess it's something that celebrities constantly have to get flak for and defend themselves against. I'm just not used to having to defend my weight and my body and it's infuriating! I just eat healthy! It's a good thing!

well she certainly got under your skin

This s#x. There is no way out - if you agree with the therapist, you are 'sick'. If you don't agree with her, you are even sicker, because you are in denial. It's insane! She is misusing her position and probably projecting her own stuff onto you.

Must be a big disappointment. Sorry you are going through this. of course, now if you quit the therapist will think even more that she is in the right. Luckily you dont have to bother what she thinks. she sounds like she thinks she is right no matter what. Ugh! Luckily, not all of them are like that.

Good luck to you!!!

In my experience....even people that know me....and know my diet....and lifestyle....and love and support me......constantly will give me that sentimental: "I'm concerned about you.....you look too thin." or whatever. The fact is, they KNOW that I take care of myself....and love myself....and have no eating disorder....but our western society is one of appearances. Differ too much from the 'norm' (which is not THAT normal...ha! ha!).....and even people of discernment fall into line and feel the need to comment.

-My response is standard: "I've heard your concerns. Thank you. I'll think about it." If a person continues to comment after that, I generate some fake anger and say something like, "You need to mind your own business." People need to understand YOUR boundaries....and that some things are not an issue with you....and you won't engage in debate. People need to learn to enforce those boundaries with friends, family & strangers that wish to be co-dependent....and define their lives by mine.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

In my opinion I think it all comes down to wherever or not your body is clean enough to re-build, if it's not then your not going to gain weight until your bodies ready, unless you really abuse yourself by overeatng.

On another note, I see tons of people on the SAD diet that are way smaller/skinnier than me but nobody says anything to them, infact just look at the celebs, I think the difference is that if people know you don't eat cooked food they will automatically assume your sick and are underweight or have an eating disorder, I've actually experimented with this myself...I posted some pics of me on a hardcore fitness forum and got big props from the most hardcore fitness freaks, then I told them I didn't eat cooked foods and at that point they all tried to find excuses to bash me and my physique even though they had previously given me big props....just goes to show that a lot of this is in oher peoples minds....did your therapist know your raw vegan and is this therapist a dietician?...if it's just one person making comments then I say forget about it and consider yourself very lucky because some people have it much worse.

Personaly I don't take any notice of weights, etc because it's all based on the SAD.

F1





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2008 01:45PM by fruitarianfitness.

davidzanemason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

I generate
> some fake anger and say something like, "You need
> to mind your own business."

LOL because my mind is conjuring up you with your fists and teeth clenched
and it`s so not you LOL
patty

nik,

what a great learning experience
$3 / min x 50 = $150
or even better $3 / min x 60 = $180!!!

just think of how much organic fruit and veggies
you can now afford!!!

thanks so much for this great thread.

xo

I'm not trying to mean, just keeping it real. If you take a look around you when you're outdoors doing your thing in your U.S. town or city how many heavy people do you see? U.S. airports are the best for this type of observation by the way. Heavy being subjective, but obese you cannot deny. There will be many. Maybe of the 10 people walking by you, 2 will look relatively healthy. I'm in Northern California which is supposed to be a health conscious mecca, but I'm noticing people getting bigger and bigger and sicker. Especially kids which is frightening. Besides apathy there has to be some sort of super denial going on as well. When you look like everyone else, you begin to think you're average or normal. Perhaps people then on an unconscious level perceive a fit or healthy person as being "ill" in this currently skewed culture? I haven't corraborated it or done any scientific or psychological surveys, just my gut intuitive instincts kicking in. Your therapist may be really intimidated by your good health and only knows how to respond by how she was trained and based on her own personal weight issues which was already mentioned. She's probably also jealous. Hey that exists too. How many times have you heard as a slender person - I wish I could eat like you do? Jealousy.

I'd look into getting a therapist who really wants to work with you and listens. The best ones are the ones with the least advice and who listen in my opinion. I had to go to one in 2005 due to depression from physical trauma recovery. I'm sure you're fine just as you are. Listen to yourself above and beyond what anyone tells you also. Best wishes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2008 04:18PM by rawangel.

Ha! ha! Yeah Dewey. My brother and I call it 'raising the dark side'. LOL. When the pain body is 'mastered'....so to speak.....like the mind......it is not eliminated....but becomes a tool you can used.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

This subject gets my ire up, as I have experienced some fluctuations in weight in past few years---and been the brunt of these weight comments, and ONLY when I was slim. At one time, my weight went up to 230 pounds...I was obese, sick as all get out, short of breath, nearly crippled with back, hip, and knee pain, depressed (the typical SAD overweight/ill condition). No one showed any "concern, care, love, worry, what not" as I got heavier and heavier and sicker.

When I went on rawfood diet and the weight and depression and illness disappeared ... THEN to my disbelief and bewilderment I started hearing from people..."now don't lose too much weight...are you losing too much weight..." and I wasn't even too thin at all, just getting healthier and happier.
What concern? The difference in the way I looked and felt and behaved was 'no contest' and yet other people's perceptions...it is just lucicrous! These people watched as I turned into a sick arthritic blimp with no comment and then got all "concerned and worried" about my health as I lost all excess weight and felt great! Whaaa-aaat?!!!???

That shrink is neurotic, why don't you talk to her and bill her?

"We who are like senseless children
Shrink from suffering, but love its causes.
We hurt ourselves; our pain is self-inflicted!
Why should others be the object of our anger?"

-Shantideva


I wouldn't see a so-called helping professional who was dragging me down. I can get that for free ... that's what the rest of the SAD world is for.

Unless you are in prison and she is the only psychiatric professional available.

If lifting weights sounds boring, volunteer for Habitat for Humanity or get a job unloading trucks (at your local library or farmers' market or Walmart).

No one was concerned when I was fifty pounds over weight and miserable. Now that I have only 10-15 pounds to go to get to my ideal weight and now that I am living the life I want to live, people offer their unsolicited advice, they make huge, ridiculous, calamitous assumptions... <sigh> I just keep smiling and doing what I need to do for me.

I've had people get angry at me because I don't eat what they like to eat. And those people are almost always either obese or have their own food issues they are projecting on to me. Oh well. Not my problem.

Hang in there.

Maybe bring the woman a bag of organic peaches the day you fire her.


Lee

[www.dhamma.org]

"May all beings be happy."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2008 05:37PM by Lee_123.

i hear ya rawangel. i look around all the time and i see soooooo many overweight, or what i see as overweight people it really makes me think. i don`t do it as judgement but i do note it as an obsevation. it actually gives me inspiration to stay as close to raw as i can for the moment. not because of weight but because of health and well being.
patty

do yoga
or pilates

or some other strengthening exercise
u don't have to lift weights
or take up dance classes

something fun

or swimming

the list can go on and on and on

plenty of things to do
to build up tone and some muscle

Everybody tells me I am too thin. And those same everybodys tell me

"but it works for you."

or

"You have a nice shape."

I really don't give a hoot what they think. I like my body. Screw them if they don't.

Funny, I was just out with a group of people and a guy who was interested in meeting me told his friend that I was "too thin." I am 5'8 and weigh about 115 give or take I guess. It was a little weird to hear it, but in the end, I just let it roll off my back. I am not sure I could say the same thing if I were hearing it weekly from someone I was paying to "help" me, but in the end, all we have is our own perception, reality, and self image to provide true happiness for ourselves. I hope you can get past everything she was saying to you!

I prefer being on the thin side rather then on the fat side. It just feels more comfortable. In my daily travels it looks to me like most people disagree with me because they are wearing their "fat suit".

Exercise will lift your spirits. Who needs a shrink?

Yeah that's what I was thinking ilsewdm. $150 for 45 min. of B.S. or $10 for 90 min. of mind clearing body enhancing yoga.

Unfortunately though I need to see someone temporally for the documentation of it that I'm getting help. And I really do need help, I just think I could get the same thing in a book that outlines the same steps and behavioral change exercises. It's just still all about the discipline and deciding to change and force yourself to change everyday. The shrink I guess is more for guidance and accountability to check in with. I have OCD and other Anxiety stuff. It's called cognitive behavioral therapy. I can get a book on it for $10 or so.

I was also diagnosed with aneroxia, even though I do not meet any of the diagnosis criteria. She was so worried about my weight, that I am scarily underweight. Yet according to the BMI criteria I am only 5% or 5lbs under what they consider to be the normal ideal range. And that thing is not even that accurate, taking muscle/fat ratios into equation or body types. Aneroxics are 15% or lower then normal.

Also, I have never once in my life gone on a weight loss diet. Even when I was 20lbs overweight I didn't diet. It came off naturally on it's own, ironically when I was working at a bakery and eating pastries every day. It was effortless. I also not ONLY do not have any fears of gaining weight, but it's actually been a GOAL of mine for a while now. I've just never had the discipline to stick to a workout regime. I am not worried about my weight or body, I just think I would look better with a few extra pounds of muscle.

I NEVER count calories, or fat grams, or portions even. In fact I eat and have eaten a plant based high fat diet for years and years because that's what I gravitate towards and what helps my hypoglycemia the most. I eat 5-6x a day. I'm not even all raw right now. I'm even thinner when I am all raw. I have not missed a period or had any irregular periods in the past 10 years!

So, physically and mentally I do not meet any of the diagnosis criteria. I am not 15% under so-called "normal" weight, only 5%. Never missed a period, don't count calories, have zero fear of gaining weight and in fact want to gain weight, don't count fat grams or the amount of fat, have zero preoccupation with with my body or appearance (I wish I did I would be in great shape right now if I did.). In fact I let my appearance go in every way because of my depression. Stupid incompetent shrinks!


happyway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well she certainly got under your skin


She did. I was already having a bad day with other negative people earlier in the day so I think I came into it already feeling frustrated and not needing anymore crap and negativity from anyone. And I came into the session hoping that it would be a relief from the other stuff going on that I could vent about and come out feeling better and instead she just gives me her own stuff. It's supposed to help my mental state, not make it worse. And I was upset that she was so condescending and arrogant about it all, and wasting my time and money arguing with me about things that are not my issue and not why I am in therapy for. I also feel that I took it more personally because I was opening up to her so much telling her my very very personal problems and issues that are very private and secretive and I don't tell anyone. So I put my trust and faith in her hands and to give credit and weight for what she thought about them in her expert opinion and suggested. I was just kicking myself for not going with my gut before starting to see her and choose a different doctor. I do need help, but I just paid all this money and she has not even gotten past her own knowledge gathering/diagnosis part and now if I switch doctors I will have to start from square one again with them getting to know my problems and have just thrown away all that money. I want a refund. Ugh. Truth is there were other things that upset me about her and the sessions that sent me over the top today ready to get rid of her. The whole thing of not really spending any time to know my case, wasting time dragging things out, asking the same questions again and again that she already asked and we already went into in the past. I can't even say how many times I said, we talked about this last time didn't you write it down? And the whole back to back sessions when they are only 45 minutes for $150 and she doesn't even give a 5 Minute buffer between clients. No wonder she barely remembers what we talked about or what she asked already. It's just a drive through cash cow for her. It also irritates me her policy on not being able to skip any sessions, even if you know a month ahead that you will be out of town or something going on, you are still charged for that week. It's just all about the cash for her! I usually never get angry, but this whole thing just sent me over the top as it is so frustrating. I need to find someone else now and I am worried about how they will be or if I will waste time, money and progress again. It's so hard to tell ahead of time, and I really don't even like doctors or believe in the whole western psychiatry thing and mindset just like I don't believe in allopathic medicine and drugs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2008 07:44PM by nik.

Yeah, it sounds like you need to find someone else. It's a drag, though -- been there under some incredibly tough circumstances, 15 years old, my mom didn't check these things out at all. I had to fire the bitch myself -- told her off and walked out and refused to go back; made my mom find someone else who turned out to be wonderful -- I was with him for four years. Good luck!

as someone with a therapist background... i have to ask...why did you initially go see her anyway? (you can private message me if you'd like with this.)

c

Nik can we see a photo of you?

Nik,

I am 5'7" and was as low as 104 lbs. a year ago. My sisters and Mom were really worried about me. It was the hardest thing about being raw, people thinking I was anorexic or something. I was always a big eater and never gained weight but the raw diet made me thin.

But I can't argue with how I feel. I have put on a bit of weight since then but my confidence in this way of eating is unshakeable and I think they are seeing that now. My overall health, energy and mood is great and keeps getting better and I am not getting weak and sick like they expected. I am now 54 and will cheerfully challenge SAD meat eaters 20 years younger than me to a race even though I'm not in any kind of regular training.

A question for all the super thin: Was there a weight/BMI at which your energy level increased?

Any pics? Your stats make me feel even fatter than I am. lol If your body fat is 22%, could it be the "skinny-fat person" thing? (popular term in the bodybuilding world) It's when you "look" thin and the scale says your weight is low but when you take your clothes off you see and feel differently. Toned arms or the underarm flabby thing? Annorexics(not saying you) even do it because they burn all their muscle yet they still have "pudge" especially on their stomach.

On my first fast I was 5'3 and got down to 118lbs..which is the SAD "healthy" or "normal" range. (I rather get lower )My face was the only thing thin on me..I could still pinch handfuls of fat on my hips, thighs and underams..in my case, I know I lost a lot of muscle.


Definitely get rid of the quack shrink. My regular doctor was a quack and "recommended" me to see one so I went just for ..fun..and to torture myself. I secretly do have mental issues since I went as a joke for the headgames. She stared at me making me uncomfortable so I couldn't help but be 'fidgety" and everything I said she picked apart trying to figure out what mental disease to label me as...I got labeled as "Generalized Anxiety Disorder" LOL. At the next appointment, she was considering other "disorders"..forgot what what my 2nd "diagnosis" was. Oh, and my insurance paid her $600 for it!

Not that I'm saying anything is wrong with shrinks if you need/want one..but make sure it's one that doesn't make you feel uncomfortable like yours is obviously doing and of course try to send you to other doctors and get drugs because she probably makes some kind of commission out of the referrals. I'd consider going to one to talk about "other" stuff if I knew how to find one that were to just "talk" about whatever is on your mind rather than try and diagnose me with something. Although they can probably pick up how suspicious I am of them and that gets me the "social anxiety" label instead of general.

And don't talk about diet or "Raw" or you probably would get thrown in an eating disorder ward. Weight comes up, I'd say that fast metabolism runs in your family and you just had Mcdonalds for lunch. lol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2008 04:38AM by LikeItOrNot.