can anyone suggest a vegan b12 brand (possibly sublingual) that they are currently using. i know that you can get b12 naturally, but i do not grow enough of my own produce to obtain it from those sources.
arugula-
i know that i have never personally adressed you, but i searched the forum for suggestions on b12 supplementation and you were the only person i could find who had mentioned they spent less than $10 yearly on supplements. what is the brand that you personally use?
any suggestions from anyone would be very much appreciated.
thankyou!

could b12 be obtained from blue-green algae, or kombucha? i don't really know what the best source is, aside from home grown produce... and i don't have that

Fuzzy, yes, blue-green algae has potential but the amount available is probably highly variable, and combined with the fact of that competitive forms also present reduce bioavailability, I would not suggest relying on it.

I get methylcobalamin from NOW foods, the 1000 mcg size. I cut it into 4ths and take 1/4 once per week.

This one.
[www.iherb.com]


There is also a liquid vegan product with fewer excipients
[www.vitacost.com]

What exactly is a methylcobalamin supplement derived from?

The brand "Twin Lab" sold at Whole Foods, sells a very high potency sublingual B-12 tab that I have heard people say is good.

PEACE
Choco

oh, there are also liquid B-12 drops at Whole Foods ( I forgot the brand..)that some of my friends like better, if you don't like tabs.

PEACE
Choco

I cut my B12 into 1/4th too, and divide it up among my family!

Another related question: when should one take B12, in the morning or night and on an empty stomach or not?

My brand is Puritans Pride.
I take 1/4 of a tablet sub lingual at lunchtime.Approx 1000 mcg.

Algaes or sea weeds aren't effective forms of b 12 as they contain analogues which block the absorption of natural b 12 and actually contribute to deficiencies. Nori has been found to have small amount of active B12

From what I understand B 12 is synthetic and then they often add exipients and flowing agents such as magesium stearate which destroys t cells (primary immune function.

I have also used them all in the past cyanocobalamin and methylcobalamin and the one I found the most effective is perque B 12, hydroxocobalamin, which gabriel cousens also sells, VRP do a methylcobalamin, if your choice is that one

[www.perque.com]


My choice now when I use a supplement is Quantum Rx lving b nano plex. It is the only natural living b including B 12, the only natural b 12 you can get, it is a b complex so has all the b vits in, it made by a probiotic fermentation.

[www.phpure.com]

Neither perque or quantum rx have exipients and nasties added. Make sure you get a supplement without these exipients as they are in most supplements, and they destroy t cells. Info here on which exipients/flowing agents to look out for

[www.qnlabs.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2008 05:20AM by Ariel55.

rufio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What exactly is a methylcobalamin supplement
> derived from?

Bacteria make it.

It is possible for people to synthesize it in the lab, but the process is very complicated, expensive, and extremely inefficient. One guy spent 10 years with a team of over 100 people to come up with a method and he got a Nobel prize for it but nobody uses his method.

Bacteria do it much better.

Yes I agree, best get you gut functioning right, and your gut will make b 12

but for those who have deficienc,y or are in transition, or in doubt go for highest quality supplement, b 12 cyanocobalamin and methylcobalamin and hydroxocobalmin are all synthetic, the nano b is naturally produced.

<<your gut will make b 12>>

from what i understand this will only result in miniscule amounts, not enough for good health. it's meant to be ingested.

Here is a different perspective in B-12: Rethinking & Clarifying the Vitamin B12 Issue.

Yes, bacteria in our large intestines make B12. But this is thought to occur too distal (far down) in the colon to be absorbed and used. We absorb most nutrients through the villi in the small intestine, which is further up.

"Synthetic" B12 is naturally produced by bacteria. Your body's chemicals will not be able to tell if it was produced by bacteria under controlled conditions or not.

People who ingest trace amounts of excipients in supplements generally do not have impaired immune system status because of it.

But for people who already have compromised or otherwise defective immune systems, there might be a sensitivity to very small amounts of carrier and a reaction. I knew a woman who was allergic to many different substances. latex, bleach, wool, just about every uncooked protein. She was so sensitive that even with the same active chemical in her medication, one brand name would be ok and another would not.

Interesting link on B12, I get the feeling, that it is true, despite all the evidence of B 12 deficiencies.

I feel there less known about B 12 than known about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2008 05:50AM by Ariel55.

Oh yeah and that reminds me, of a guy called Harley, who developed a really bad b 12 deficiency, but had no symptoms. He quadrupled his levels on blood tests by consulting doug graham and cutting out fat, and that is all, no supplement, I don't know the full details of what he was eating before,although I know he is an endurance athlete that follows 811. I found that really fascinating. He reported this on one of the other forums



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2008 06:17AM by Ariel55.

"Synthetic" B12 is naturally produced by bacteria. Your body's chemicals will not be able to tell if it was produced by bacteria under controlled conditions or not.

I thought the B 12 were synthetic, so if it is produced from bacteria, it is natural then, but they are not still living,like the nano b plex is living in that it has an energy field and resonance with body chemistry,like fresh fruit and veg under kirlian photography. If I was to take a supplement again I would still prefer to take the best available. But I do believe that the body can make it, and maybe B12 deficiency doesn't really exist as the link Bryan has provided, I'm open to that too, as some people on fruitarian just don't develop the deficiencies, although there are others who claim they nearly died of B 12 deficiency, so it is confusing. The nano b is fermented from yeast so supposedly enters the cells easier, I've used it, I have to say I didn't notice any benefit but more of a safety precaution, just in case.

[www.qnlabs.com]

People who ingest trace amounts of excipients in supplements generally do not have impaired immune system status because of it.


Argula, that may be true but I'd still prefer to avoid these substances if possible when taking a supplement, as the body can't use them and over time (years) they build up and cause problems. It has been shown on animal studies to cause problems and some people do one hell of a lot of supplements with lots of these exipients



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2008 07:08AM by Ariel55.

BUGS!!!

Victoria Boutenko says that is your best bet for b12 and not to wash your greens before making green smoothies. LOL

I don't think that Vetrano article is a good one. She has only two references, from the 70s. But there are a hundreds of papers written since then than contradict her.

Here are just a few statements that are either outright wrong or questionable:

"Cyanocobalamin is in every vitamin B12 supplement known because it is stable and less costly to manufacture"

This is absolutely not true!

"But it is not usable in the body."

This is also absolutely not true!

"In summary, vegans and raw fooders all have sufficient amounts of coenzyme B12 in their diets, and FROM THAT produced in their bodies."

This appears not to be true, either, what looks to be more likely the case is that we eventually run out if we don't replenish our stores. It is also true that some people are more efficient at using their current stores than others. But who knows which category one falls into without periodic testing?

Better safe than sorry.

There's this old proverb that goes like this:

"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it."

I'm doing it. David is doing it. Others here are doing it. And experiencing great health. ("It" being no supplementation).

However, if it eases your fears and you are afraid of the consequences of B-12 (or any other) deficiency, then take the supplementation. I assure you, of all the plant eating animal life on this earth, humans are the only ones taking the supplementation.

i have to be sure for my kids. it's fine for me to experiment on myself but it isn't ok for me to do it to them. our closest primate cousins eat bugs and won't turn their noses up at eggs either. so it's a creepy crawly omlette or supplements for us.

or fermented food, is that right? i can make pickles and kraut for b-12? so much info, it sticks in my mind all jumbled up together in spots

ok... i am more confused about b 12 then ever... i know that i do take a supplement... and i do notice a differece in my mind... i don't take it everyday... cause it's too much but when i forget about it... i notice i get real REAL wierd... spacey i guess... but off... it was the same when i was transitioning to be vegetarian... i would go for a long time with out meat... and then i would get real REAL wierd... spacey... the same i get now...and i would eat meat and all would be well again... atleast now i am raw and vegan... ok except for the honey... but it's raw... so my friend suggested taking a supplement and yes.. i noticed a difference... yes the quality could be better...but it was this or nothing... and I do believe in a perfect world... in a perfect body we can learn how to create this... or maybe remember how to create this... but i know what makes things better for me... and again getting too stressed about it... doesn't help at all... if you need a supplement take it... if not... don't... but ya know... in the article.... they suggest beet carrot green beans and peas... and do you know that i crave these foods... if i could just eat beets and carrots and peas i would be very happy... question... are frozen peas raw...i've not even considered having them cause i didn't expect they would be plus being frozen... hmmm ...ok off the point... i have been going crazy with nuts lately too... maybe a bit too crazy... anyhow... as for the creepy crawly eggs...thank you no thank you...

love laugh and dream

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rufio Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What exactly is a methylcobalamin supplement
> > derived from?
>
> Bacteria make it.
>
> It is possible for people to synthesize it in the
> lab, but the process is very complicated,
> expensive, and extremely inefficient. One guy
> spent 10 years with a team of over 100 people to
> come up with a method and he got a Nobel prize for
> it but nobody uses his method.
>
> Bacteria do it much better.


Are you sure that its still the case? From what I read, it is cheaper now to synthesize B12 than get it from bacteria.

I use (every so often) AOR methylcobalamin 15mg tablets. Its pretty expensive so I just use them periodically. [www.aor.ca]

Yes, positively. The "synthetic" process you write of is probably still using bacteria.

Here is how Woodward did it. You can see for yourself that nobody would do this and expect to make financial gain. (pdf)
[www.ias.ac.in]

Also try searching google on

woodward b12 synthesis yields

or something similar.

luvyuu, I don't think that it's b12 that was causing your spacey-ness - it takes the body atleast 3 years or so to run out of b12 supplies, and jumping on and off the vegetarian express quickly is not a sure fire way to tell it was the b12, I don't think.

Pretty much it's a mystery to me where it comes from. I think it is for most people. So if you feel bad, try taking a supplement and see if it helps and vualaa

<< vualaa >>

what is that? is it some funky word i don't know or is it a funky spelling of voila?

I did and do take a b12 supplement... and it is the same thing with the meat... i feel less spacey... i would go for long bouts with out meat when i was transitioning... were talking a year or more... and then i would have a bit and would feel grounded again... now i don't want to go back to that... and the b12 seems to do it for me... so whether it is b12 or not it works for me... i will look into a better quality but why do they have to be so darned expensive... my sister gets suicidal if she doesn't eat meat... maybe it's a genetic thing...though i have been on the healing track a bit longer than she... so voila... hehehe
love laugh and dream

i very highly doubt that it is the meat that keeps her from being suicidal. perhaps something in the meat but those things can be gotten elsewhere. highly likely an emotional connection, you mention "grounding" ~ bryan has some interesting things to say about that. you may or may not agree but it's interesting none the less.

so B12 in fermented food like pickles and kraut or not, anyone know?

luvyuu,

If it helps your search, in Whole Foods it is not hard to find a relatively inexpensive B-12 at all.

Also, I completely sympathize and understand your dilemma of often craving meat and feeling better after eating it while really trying hard to stay on your vegetarian diet. And I understood what you meant when you described your sister's issues realting to meat as well. I have seen similar issues amongst some of my own family members.

While I personally feel completely at ease emotionally and physically on a vegan diet and have for many years (whether cooked vegan or raw vegan) , my sister and father do not, regardless of how hard they have tried. And by "try" I mean really sticking with the vegan diet, eating well combined food, lots of veggies, white knucking the cravings hoping they would pass, doing detox flushes, etc., etc. But none of it really worked and apparently after much trial and error over the years they have simply acknowledged that their metabololic process differs from mine and they need higher amounts of animal food in their bodies to feel well and function optimally.

What I suggested to my family which came directly from the readings of a great yogi, is that as a vegan, if you feel your body needs animal flesh food for medicinal reasons (not cheese or milk, as I'm assuming dairy was probably your first non-violent goto food group choice that didn't work to boost your energy), try eating the least conscious animals on the karma food chain ( as discussed in yogic scriptures) before moving on to the higher conscious beings. So according to the consciousness chart, fish are the least karmically evolved creatures and should be the first type of animal food reached for. If the medicinal results you are seeking aren't satisfied with fish, one is supposed to keep working their way through the chain till they find the flesh food that brings on wellness. Cows are considered the most evolved beings karmically.


If you are determined to stay vegan, I would also recommend consulting an experienced, licensed, nutritionist who is a practicing vegan ( or vegetarian) him/herself for further ideas on how to keep you feeling your best while eating a vegan diet. They might suggest blood work, and/or supplements and food ideas that could really help you.

...And the licensed part of being a vegan nutritionist is really important. Too many raw foodists take a few raw chef's classes or did a few months at some raw retreat and call themselves "health counselors". For issues like yours, you want someone with a serious graduate degree who has all the technical nutritional education and knowledge as well as an open holistic mind and practice. Practitioners like that are out there regardless of the hype that all allopathically trained practitioners are closed off and fearful to raw foodism and spirituality.

Hope this helps.

PEACE
Choco

iLIVE, dont know where you get the 3 years number from, but for what it's worth my experience:

heavy meat eater: B12 level at high end of recommended range.

10 months of vegetarian with goat dairy, of which the last 3 or so completely vegan: B12 level below recommended range.

And I eat seaweed daily, kombucha at times. Also, my hair has started falling out recently and I bruise easily, which are all Vit B complex related issues, not sure if it is related, and not meaning to stir fear, just sharing as it's happening to me.
I am supplementing now.