Hello all.

Tell me about what food you have grown from seed? How was the process? What did you learn? What growing methods have giving you more success than others?

What are your favorite crops to grow?

Cheers,
Narz

Mine are not from seed, but from young plants and seedlings. I have pots of arugula, various broccoli raabs, various kales, Italian parsley and wild Italian chicory.

I have learned (again) that this is basically an exercise in futility. My backyard is too shady. Six weeks, $13 worth of plants (and I am not counting what I spent on soil and soil improvements or the increases in water and sewer bills) and I still don't have even $5 worth of food compared to what I could get from my grocer in the greens department.

My wild Italian chicory did well last year, but I started it much later. Maybe I started too soon this year.

Thanks arugla. There are no sunny spots?

I know some of the rest of you must grow at least some of your food. C'mon share, this is important stuff!

i grew flowers on the deck last summer. strawberries too!

Last summer I grew lettuce, tomatoes, tomatillos, peppers, cucumbers, cilantro, basil and a few melons. The melons were challenging because it took them so long to grow and there were only a few at the end to harvest. But the lettuce I harvested all season long (actually I'm still growing lettuce now). The peppers were also a big investment in time.

But the tomatoes and tomatillos were such a joy! Tomatillos are really easy to grow and they go crazy. Tomatoes are wonderful too because you can grow all these yummy heirloom varieties and it is cost-effective too. The cucs and herbs were also pretty easy except the cilantro went to seed so fast!

I get most of my seeds from Seed Savers Exchange [ www.seedsavers.org ] because they carry a lot of heirloom varieties and are dedicated to preserving heirloom seeds.

I have a 10x10 greenhouse in the backyard so in March or so, I start seeds in trays inside, then eventually trasfer them to 4" pots in the greenhouse, then to bigger pots, then to their homes in the ground!

Last summer was the first time I grew everything from seed myself, which turned out to be easier than i was thinking, and also very rewarding. I am lucky to live on great soil in a flood plain, but i did add rock dust to the dirt and then fertilized regularly with liquid kelp, bird/bat guano, and borage/stinging nettle tea. Rock dust is key if you have less than ideal soil -- check out www.remineralize.org run by Don Weaver, a long-term raw foodist.

Another site I like with many gardenign forums is [forums.gardenweb.com]

Overall, I love gardening and am learning a lot! Part of what I'm learning is being willing to try something new even if i don't know what i'm doing and might get it totally wrong.

I want to grow fruit trees -- more calories for less labor!

Love,
Uma

I grew green peppers, tomatoes, and kale in the summer in Ontario, Canada.
I watered the plants with the hose about every other day, and it rained probably on average once a week.
There were a few different varieties of peppers, and two different tomato plants.

Sometimes the peppers died, as did the tomatoes... the kale was pretty consistent in it's growth. I think the peppers and tomatoes occasional got too hot and that's why they died.

I didn't use any artificial pesticide or anything, just water.

The food tasted good

My buddy grew Wheatgrass in his apartment (I'm sure you've done this before too, I remember your cat eating some in a video :-) )

Peace out buddy

I'm a long time gardener so I thought I'd share a few more tips. I grew up in a gardening family with the benefit of learning a lot early on. My mom grew up in the depression in a large family where they had to grow food to meet their needs and she kept a large vegetable garden in our suburban backyard until she went to work full time and had to downscale her garden. She told me I was helping her when I was barely old enough to walk.

I got into biointensive gardening in the late 70's, long before I became vegan or raw. Gardening for a raw diet simplifies my garden plan and eliminates a few things I used to grow. I live in a new place now with wonderful soil and growing conditions, so I'm planning to have a couple of new garden beds this spring.

If you are just learning how to grow food I would say that the biggest beginner's mistake is trying to make too big of a garden or trying to grow too many things the first season and overloading ones self with too much information. Keep it simple, build on your success and learn from your mistakes.

For a good basic book I would recommend John Jeavon's "How to Grow More Vegetables...". You can adapt his methods, which may seem a bit daunting at first, particularly the concept of double digging the soil. However, the best way to learn gardening is by personal transmission. Find someone who is willing to share their knowledge in exchange for your labor.

You're going to need sunshine to be successful with most veggies. If you don't have access to a garden plot, you can grow lots of stuff in containers on a deck, patio or flat rooftop.

Here are some basic veggies that are fairly easy to grow for entry level raw foodist gardeners: Tomatoes (dozens of varieties for all sorts of growing conditions), Squashes like zukes and sunburst or patty pan are great for spirializing (careful, squashes need a fair amount of room), lettuces, strawberries (some varieties do great in containers), eggplant, kale and bell peppers.

Here are some things that are a little harder to grow or more climate/condition sensitive. Snow and sugar snap peas, carrots, celery, broccoli, cauliflower, melons, and basil.

Finally, if you are willing to invest the time and have a permanent space, there are dwarf varieties of various tree fruits or citrus fruits if your climate allows. Domesticated varieties of black, rasp, and other berries are wonderful but take at least a couple of years to get established. Asparagus is a little daunting to grow at first, but I like the young tender shoots raw if picked real early, otherwise they make a great gift to someone who is eating cooked.

It's true that some things are more expensive to grow than to buy at the market if you buy starts, packaged dirt, amendments and such, but it is hard to put a price on the satisfaction you get from growing and consuming your own food; all that energy goes back into you. Tomatoes and Squash are very cost effective relative to market price; I believe they will save you money and taste better. If I had only 2 big pots and not a lot of time to grow something, it would be these 2 veggies.

To find out what variety of a given veggie grows best in your area go to a reputable nursery or garden supply store or keep your eyes peeled for folks with gardens in their back yard and ask them what works well. If you don't have a place of your own to garden, check out your area to see if there are any neighborhood or community gardens where you can become a member, rent a plot or share your labor in exchange for a share of the harvest.

Winter is the season to get yourself organized, educated and the seeds ordered. By March it will be time to start some varieties of seeds in window sill flats, cold frames or greenhouses.

Wishing you a green thumb,
Uti

Thanks, I just requested a seed saver catalog.

Hi Narz.

My backyard is very shady. There are patches that get intermittent sunshine, but only for a few hours per day. My ferns do really well! But not my food!

I can tell you what we grow, but I can't tell you much about the process because my husband does the gardening and I do all the meal preparations. It works out great for us. Currently, we are growing spinach, cilantro, and some different varieties of lettuces. Last summer, we had 16 different heirloom tomato plants growing, all kinds of different lettuces, broccoli, red peppers, cilantro, onions, carrots, beets, beans, peas, squash, and spinach. I may be forgetting a few things. We are getting ready to plant some kale. We love growing all of our own veggies. And if we lived in a warmer climate, I would have lots of fruit trees planted. We compost EVERYTHING, so our soil is amazing. My husband is an amazing gardener. We also grows tons of different flowers. We currently have a peach tree growing because it grew from our compost. We also had an avocado tree pop up, but it didn't make it. My husband is going to try growing some pumpkins. That should be fun.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Narz.
>
> My backyard is very shady. There are patches that
> get intermittent sunshine, but only for a few
> hours per day. My ferns do really well! But not my
> food!


Ever thought of cutting down a tree or two?

By the way, do you live nearby my route ( [www.mapquest.com] )? Maybe we could meet up when I head to Florida.

When I accquire more seeds (and ideally save even more seeds from my crops) I'll glady trade with any of you.

ThomasLantern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> There were a few different varieties of peppers,
> and two different tomato plants.
>
> Sometimes the peppers died, as did the tomatoes...
> the kale was pretty consistent in it's growth. I
> think the peppers and tomatoes occasional got too
> hot and that's why they died.

Thomas, It's pretty much impossible for it to get too hot for tomatoes and peppers, they are heat loving plants and need lots of sun to ripen to their fullest potential. They don't like uneven watering, ie flood-drought-flood-drought. Just don't let the soil at root ball level get bone dry. This is important if your topsoil is shallow before it hits hard clay or rock. Less water more often and almost none for the last part of the ripening cycle.

OOOOPS! In my list of of easier to grow veggies yesterday I forgot a biggie...the ubiquitous cucumber, again one with many varieties suited to different conditions and uses. Two of my favorites are the English style and the Japanese cuke, both great for spiralizing into raw noodles. Some varieties of cukes will grow in containers or are climbing which saves garden space.

Boy, all this talk about gardening is making my green thumb itch for some dirt.

Love from Uti to all the gardeners, oldies or newbies

please explain to gardening-oaf Thomas what is "root ball level"

Hi Narz, yes I am on your route, about 3-4 miles off the Newberry Rd. exit of I-75 in Gainesville (just under the D in FLORIDA on your map).

Let me know when you guys are coming, maybe we can meet up at the interstate exchange or something.

ThomasLantern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> please explain to gardening-oaf Thomas what is
> "root ball level"

No-not oaf. My apologies everyone and Thomas, I forgot that most people are perhaps new to this.

The "root ball" is the large clump of roots most easily seen just below the ground level base of the trunk/stem if you were to dig up a tomatoe or pepper plant. However, what you hardly ever see is the amazing length some plants put their very fine small roots down into the earth, sometimes many feet. John Jeavon's book, mentioned in my earlier post has a great comparative illustration of several common garden veggie root systems; which he uses to show why his system of deeply loosening the soil is good for the plants, the rationale being the deeper the roots can penetrate the more moisture and nutrients are made available for optimum growth.

Container gardening relies on added nutrients via super enriched soil and/or feeding the plant on sufficient intervals, since the roots aren't free to travel beyond the boundary of the container.
---Uti

I have a semi-wild garden, maybe something a tiny bit similar to what Masanobu Fukuoka wrote about in his masterpiece, One-Straw Revolution. (I loved that book. It made a deep and profound impact on me. I recommend it to anyone. It's not just about agriculture, and it's not just about eating, ....)

When I moved into this apartment I got permission from the landlord to grow some foods in the little garden that they used to use. They said they never used agricultural chemicals so I asked to use the spot.

First thing I did was turn the soil. It was hard hard hard. And I was amazed that there were so many rocks, so big, so close to the top. (I live on a volcanic island in South Korea. Rocks are everywhere.) So I removed most of those. I've read someone's opinion that stones in the soil add a kind of energy. I like that idea.

Then I found some fresh and some dead grasses and weeds that didn't have seeds on them. I put those on the ground to keep the sun's UV rays from destroying the bacteria in the topsoil. I chose plants from vacant unused pieces of land because there are lots of people around here with small farms. I don't want to synthetic chemicals in my garden. I think that a thin cover would have been sufficient. I think mine is too thick. In sub-tropical Thailand, where I learned some techniques, the weather is much warmer and a thicker cover can be a good idea. But it depends on various factors.

Anyway, I made holes in the grass and weed cover then a small hole in the soil where I put some seeds of local plants.

Mostly though I got seeds from plants that I knew to be edible and tossed them on the cover. Still haven't seen any of them come up yet though. Guess they will next season. Spring should see many of those plants spring out of the soil.

In Thailand I learned to use my own urine as a fertilizer. But I see that using too much over too long in too strong a concentration can hurt the plants. I don't know how much is good to use. But I used to much for sure. I've stopped using it for now to give the plants a chance to recover. Just now read the following link to a thread on urine as fertilizer and yeah, I see that I overdid it with the pee!

[www.icmag.com]

Does anyone know of a guy named Don Weaver? He's been 100% raw for probably 30 years now. He's been interviewed by Gabriel Cousens, just yesterday Jan. 5. But I haven't listened yet. I really believe him when he says 100% and I know there are lots of liars out there. He's also heavily promoting rock dust. He says he gets fabulous results. He's a great guy. He introduced me to raw more than 10 years ago. Still I struggle. Here's a link to his website.

www.remineralize.org/

Another suggestion is to look for a source of liquid fertilizers made from fruits and vegetables fermented in water and sugar. I used to use them in Thailand and feel they're great concoctions. After learning a bit about them in Thailand in 1999 I returned home to California and looked for more information about them. Nothing. I couldn't find anyone who knew what I was talking about. Not even the alternative ag professors at Uni. of California, Santa Cruz. Since then I have seen a few things on line but not much. I just now finished a search. I found a few things but still no instructions on how to make any of the liquids. Try searching these names if you're interested. Dennis Dierks, Gil Carandang, or try Korean Natural Farming Association (KNFA). Dr. Han Kyu Cho is the guy in that association who apparently dreamed up the idea of these liquids. In my search I found something called Beneficial Indigenous Microorganisms (BIM). We all know that microorganisms are everywhere and are essential health. That includes in our intestines and throughout the rest of our bodies. Why would we overlook microorganisms in soil. You can get some good information on KNFA's website here. They published a book that explains lots of things about their methods but it's not for sale on their website and I actually found it hard to understand because the English translation wasn't very good. But it was better than nothing.

[www.janong.com]

I'm @#$%&! No, I don't put any @#$%& into my garden. But we did in Thailand, after fermenting it in those preparations and diluting it, and being careful with hygiene. Parasites and all that.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Narz, yes I am on your route, about 3-4 miles
> off the Newberry Rd. exit of I-75 in Gainesville
> (just under the D in FLORIDA on your map).
>
> Let me know when you guys are coming, maybe we can
> meet up at the interstate exchange or something.


Cool, I will give a call when I'm in your area (if you e-mail or PM me your number). Jamie will be flying ahead of me so I'll be driving the car alone.

tomaotes and cukes and green beans and eggplants,onions and squash,pumpkins-strawberries and blueberries.we just moved to this place last march..this summer my hubby is going to make raised beds and we are planting alot of veggies and we have a strip ou ground with nothing there...we are planting a row of blueberries. i am excited as the last few yrs i have been in too much pain to do much in the garden.now i can and will and am excited about this.taylor

Thanks Uti

You can save money on fertilizer and soil amendments (and save room in your local rubbish dump) by making your own compost. Raw fooders have lots of fruit and veggie scraps for making compost. Since you will never have a completely composted pile if you keep adding fresh scraps to it, you will need two compost piles: one to add your fresh scraps to and one to let rot.

For the necessary carb/nitrogen balance to get your pile to compost, you will need to add peat moss (fairly cheap if you buy a large bag) or dried leaves or dried grass (if available) every time you add food scraps to the pile. Just add enough peat moss to keep the pile moist but not wet. A bit of manure will help the composting process along and add nutrients to the pile.

Turn the fresh pile every few days; the easiest way is to get one of the many composters available these days. I like the round ones you can turn with a handle. Since they are enclosed you can easily regulate the dampness of the pile.

When one pile or one composter is full, start your second pile and let the first pile rot, turning both piles every few days. After a while, your first pile will look and smell like beautiful black dirt, soft and sweet. Throw some earthworms into it, and you will soon have black gold. Then spread it on your garden (under the mulch if your garden is mulched) and let the second pile start to rot while you start another pile, and so on.

My favorite vegan plant food is Neem cake. It's really not a cake. It's granulated. It has about the same NPK (Nitrogen, Phophorus, Potassium) ratio as many manures, but has the added advantages of keeping insects out of your garden and being vegan. Neem cake comes from the neem tree that grows in India and produces the red berry that Indians use for making the pretty red spot in their foreheads. It works fine to spread the neem cake around your plants (a few inches away) right on top of your mulch.

For the least waste of seeds and ultimately stronger plants, I start all my seeds in flats and then transfer the seedlings to the garden. I use a good organic potting soil (there are many available) in the flats.

It's always helpful to read the seed packet to know how far apart the seedlings should be placed. Root crop seeds like carrots and radishes can be planted directly into the garden and then thinned if necessary, since they take up less space.

My favorite gardening book is by Ruth Stout, (Gardening Without Work). It's about mulching. A good mulch is really key to a good garden. It keeps an even temperature and moisture level in the soil while adding nutrients and keeping out weeds.

I like Seeds of Change for the best organic seeds.

Peaceful Valley Farm Supply has the best gardening tools, organic fert, soil amendments, etc., if those are not available in your area.

Good luck Narz and raw vegan lady friend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2007 06:32AM by suncloud.

recently i've grown herbs- thai basil, mint, parsley and chives from seeds.
Also lettuce and spinach from seeds. and ofcourse sunflower greens and sprouts.
i found them very easy and satisfying to grow.

i have a coffee can and i fill it everyday with kitchen scraps...u can blend them up.hubby drinks coffee-so there is coffee grounds and i blend up banana peels and orange peels and everything and every time it get filled up-i take the can outside and dig a hole and then pour the kicthen compost in the hole...by spring and summer-it is all really good soil.taylor

If anyone is interested in growing fruit trees it can take some time and a
little effort from seed.

The best one of all is papaya and the fastest for me was mutingia a red berry that looks like a blueberry but taste different and grows easy in South florida.

I have grown mango trees from seed it took about 4 year before it gave me some good tasting mangos and the mangos were totally different from the seed it came from it was yellow inside and had a very pleasant taste and smell the tree is still there I have since moved.

Right now and for many years I always grow papayas and have some new ones and old trees always coming and going.

Where I live now we have jackfruit not from seed and this year we had plenty of passion fruit from a small plant a friend gave us and I am trying too grow a few more seems easy to grow.

To name a few more fruits trees we have about 6 guava trees and a old tamarind tree one longan and a carambola a lime tree and 2 annonas or sugarapple.

Good Luck keep on trying and never stop growing withever it is you like to grow.

Cherimoya

Love Peace and Happiness,

Sheriff John Brown always hated me
for what, I don't know
every time I plant a seed
he say kill it before it grow...

=)

[www.rahorigins.org]

I used to have a yard and threw every kind of fruit seed that I ate, I had so many baby trees, I used to steal seeds from the botanical gardens and fruit and spice park, I had it ALL../ seeds are everyone's../

Inspired by Uncommon Fruits for every garden by Lee Reich I ordered some Pawpaw and Jujube seeds from [www.tradewindsfruit.com] and hopefully will get them going this year. Pawpaw is hardy clear into Canada and Jujube is hardy to minus 25F. Pawpaw is called the northern banana, is native to the US, and is the northern most represenitive of the Custard Apple Family (soursop, cherimoya, sweetsop). Uncommon Fruits lists many cold hardy fruits. Others include: persimmon, mayop (a passionflower), mulberry, juneberry... Tradewinds has alot of seeds for cold hardy fruit trees. A big part of the grizzly's diet in Denali National Park is from blueberry, crowberry and cranberry; so you're never too far north for good perrenial fruit production.

Also I want to develope roof top gardening for a regular sloped roof. Vines like grape and squash would make good use of wasted sunlight and space. Their shade on the composite shingles would actually make them last longer protecting them from the destructive sunlight and heat.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2007 10:09PM by brome.