OK. So how do I begin raw if already I am protein deficient and anemic? I, as you know, am inclined towards 8-1-1. Not because I like fruit - Because I don't - But for health reasons - Fungus, arthritis, eczema, depression, acne, brain fog, irritable bowel, leaky gut, adrenal fatigue, etc. How do you start a low protein diet if already lacking in that nutrient?

I wouldn't worry about protein at this point, but focus on healing the fungus, arthritis, eczema, depression, acne, brain fog, irritable bowel, leaky gut, adrenal fatigue, etc.

If all of those things are healed, the anemia problem will probably disappear with those other chronic conditions.

Given that you don't like fruit, but it seems to work the best for you, you have an issue that requires your attention: eat what you like versus eat what makes you feel better. Whatever words/ideas I may tell your (or you may tell yourself) don't matter, as you need to get your mind and body in alignment on your healing. Until this alignment happens, your mind will do things that your body may not be happy with.

The 80/10/10 diet will provide sufficient protein for excellent health (but any raw diet will have enough protein if you eat enough calories).

dancer,

you may want to consider positive affirmations, as hard as that may seem. "I am protein deficient and anemic" will tend to continue that particular diagnosis. "I am becoming healthier with each passing moment" might work...

"i don't like fruit"

there may be more involved than the above statement says...

-do you not like just about anything right now? (mental state)
-what particular fruits do you not like, because when you say I don't like fruit (there are hundreds of fruits - it's a bit mind boggling to think that you don't like any of them)
-are the fruits organic, fresh, ripe? if not, then I wouldn't like them either.
-are you hungry when you eat?
and many other factors...

811 is NOT a low protein diet. It is a protein optimal diet.

I would suggest further that you consult with dr graham.
I would also suggest that you find a lettuce/celery/fruit smoothie that you enjoy.
call it the dancerinthenight special, and tell us all about it...

maybe find one fruit that you like right now - hold it in your hands, and eat it barehanded in the sun (or rain), with the realization that every breath is a gift.

I think, if you are concerned about protein, that you CAN eat high-protien stuff....like sprouted sunflower seeds and nuts that you like......if you are concerned.

-Of course what Bryan said is 100% correct. Focus on your healing of outstanding health disorders...and then you can focus more on refining your diet. Excellent advice.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

I agree with Bryan. Have faith

Dancer,

One of the best protein on the earth is Spirulina. It's not too expesive, very simple to mix in you green smoothies in the morning and it's easily digestible.

I take about 10-15 grams a day plus 10 grams chlorella and I work out every single day.

There is a great info to download (pdf) at www.newstarget.com about these superfoods.

-----------------------------
"I feel smashing" by Wallace and Gromit

Cheers,

MJH

I actually do hate fruit. I never have liked it. Even as a child. I simply find it too sweet. My body likes fish and game and greens. I truly feel a visual aversion to fruit. So perhaps 811 will not work for me because I am not aligned with it?

You may want to try using a raw Hemp protein powder mixed with water or green juice for some of your protein meals or snacks.

I find that the concentrated protein powders work better for me in terms of meeting my nutritional and energy needs much more so than chewing large amounts of seeds and nuts or even spirulina powder. I think protein powders are particularly useful in cases where the body is in a state of chronic state of un-wellness or dis-ease and has less digestive fire and strength due to illness.
I personally found hemp powder mixed with berries and water to be very helpful to me. And I think powders in general can be really nurturing until one's bodily digestion and assimilation functions start operating more strongly and health challenges (like eczema, brain fog, acne, etc...) start to lift and shift.

dancerinthenight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I actually do hate fruit. I never have liked it.
> Even as a child. I simply find it too sweet. My
> body likes fish and game and greens. I truly feel
> a visual aversion to fruit. So perhaps 811 will
> not work for me because I am not aligned with it?


are you now eating fish and game and greens?

Hey dancer,

there is a saying that I often have in mind which I think might be of benefit to you with regards to your aversion to fruit, it is simply "If you do what you have always done, you will get what you have always got".

Don't be afraid of change.

Cheers and best wishes,
Jx

I truly feel a visual aversion to fruit.

close your eyes just enjoy it if you can ...or keep eating what feels good for now

I looked it up and a person weighing 100lbs need 33 grams of protein. Maybe this isn't important, but maybe it will put your mind at ease. I notice when my protein content gets high I start feeling bad.

dancerinthenight, you're not crazy. I can't post links here through my phone but I came across some articles a little while ago that I posted here, basically they explained that some people are averse to fruit- some more so than others, depending upon our individual degree of ability to metabolize fructose. I personally think this is due to the level of sugar in modern fruit skyrocketing before everyone's bodies have evolved to catch up with this. Some people, even with cooked food, are well able to metabolize copious amounts of carbohydrates while remaining slim. I've always been a protein person myself, and find I do best on raw when I eat lots of greens - greens mixed with fruits. Try eating cucumbers and peppers whole- they're fruits just not sweet fruits. They make me feel high, whereas sweet fruit by itself can make me tired & sluggish, whereupon I have to reach for the zeolite to make me feel right again.

I also find I have to eat something salty if I eat more than one portion of sweet fruit at once- which tells me that's the kidneys signaling that my electrolyte balance has been thrown off. (maintaining proper water/sodium balance is the kidneys' main job, and I wonder if perhaps the requirements for this can differ amongst individuals? which would be an explanation for why some people can tolerate huge quantities of sweet fruit while others feel "water logged".)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2007 12:48AM by sunshine79.

why don't you just start adding more raw foods you like, continue eating cooked foods you find healthful and enjoyable. and not worry about following a particular program that may or may not be the key to your healing. you want to get ahold of your health crisis for sure, but also as part of - and not necessarily before - you are able to take those steps. jumping into 811 - especially unenjoyably - won't be a 100 meter dash to perfect health but will likely exacerbate your symptoms. from your previous posts you seem to be not digging things so much, so I think the advice is the same - do whats comfortable more then what is 'best'.

also,and i know i'll be a sole voice on this, but you said before you did three extended water fasts. now people here might have a billion rebuttals for why that might not have worked for you, but I think it might serve you to seek out other methods of healing if you continue to experience crisis.

I wonder also, if tropical cultures are better able to thrive on a high sweet-fruit diet, as they would have better kept pace with the increasing amount of sugar in fruit.

Northern cultures, on the other hand, may have been separated long enough from abundant quantities of sweet fruit for it to have eventually made a difference in our metabolisms over the course of human evolution.

I guess a good indicator would be whether there are any sweet-fruitarians of Inuit origin? Because certainly that's an isolated northern culture, and has been for some time, probably long enough for metabolic changes to have taken place at the genetic level.

Ok here it is! This is interesting!

I found this sentence in a study on the Inuit in Nature magazine:

"Furthermore, men who ate fresh fruit daily had larger waist and hip circumferences than those who did not."

In that article it also said that a higher rate of obesity was also associated with a higher marine diet (seal and fish).

-----------------------

What that says to me, is that in an isolated Northern culture the human metabolism has evolved away from being able to thrive on a high quantity of sweet fruit (in this case, even just DAILY fruit)...... but not so far away as to be able to become a carnivore. Apparently, in the Inuit, neither sweet fruit nor fish/meat enables optimal health.

That's really interesting, actually. This may really be the explanation behind different metabolic tolerances to sweet fruit. I note that major fruitarians on this board have tropical heritage - FruitarianOne, Bryan and Coconutcream. I don't know about anyone else. Maybe we should take a survey?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2007 02:04AM by sunshine79.

All humans have tropical heritage.

Before raw, I used to scold my husband for undercooking the vegies in the stir fry. I hate them crunchy. Ha ha ha! Change...

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

Right, Gosia, I know that - we are all from Africa, originally - that's why I specified RECENT tropical heritage. The metabolism, genetically, adapts to change relatively quickly and easily from an evolution standpoint, which I'm sure you understand why - because food is so important to our survival.

Ok so you have this group of people migrating out of Africa hundreds of thousands of years ago..... they move East and North..... with a taste for fruit - but remember, fruit was not so sweet at this time..... then those who end up in northern climates, what do they do? What has happened to their abundant supply of tropical African fruit? It's no longer present... so what do they do? Adapt or die..... so the metabolism adapts to less fruit, more vegetables...... and meanwhile what is happening to those people who migrated to tropical areas like India, parts of Asia, and South America? They keep eating fruit, and fruit keeps getting sweeter, and they keep adapting in tandem.

And look at us on this board who complain about not being able to tolerate fruit that well - me, dancerinthenight, Rawrrr - fair-skinned northerners. Dancerinthenight, with her ivory skin and red hair - can count Norse viking sailors as her ancestors - how much fruit do you think THEY ate?

Just because some fruitarians seem to be more outspoken, doesn't mean that EVERYONE who eats all that sweet fruit will be as optimally healthy as they are. Some people are probably truly better adapted to vegetables, thanks to human migration and metabolic evolution.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2007 02:51AM by sunshine79.

I am not sure if the body can adapt in an evolutionary sense to foods that are biologically inappropriate. Have we evolved to be carnivorous, because humans have been eating meat for some time? It is a fascinating topic. At the moment, I do not believe that there is any evidence to support the hypothesis of people adapting to non-primates foods. Surviving, yes, but evolving? The scientific literature also supports the fact that, biologically, humans are tropical apes. The evidence is that the choices in what people ate in the past where dictated by the availability of resources, but this has not translated into evolutionary adaptations. This has translated into cultural practices though. Can we evolve to eating cooked foods? I do wonder sometimes, am I on the rigt path experimenting with the raw diet? I used to be not so fond of fruit too once. I could live on Indian, my favourite cousine. I was survivng. Was I thriving? My thought is that debating is not going to resolve the issue. Only time will tell. Opennes to change is a good quality. Gentle, spontaneous change is a good thing.

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2007 03:10AM by rawgosia.

go sit on a field of blue green grass
lie down
soak up the sun
look at the sky
look at the sky through the branches of the tree

look at a bird
there u go

half of your cellular needs have been met right there
oxygen, sun light

you'll figure out the rest as u go

oh yeah, after you're done with that
climb the tree

then plant your favorite foods

whatever they may be

then figure out if u want to eat them or not

easy does it
like gosia says

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> go sit on a field of blue green grass
> lie down
> soak up the sun
> look at the sky
> look at the sky through the branches of the tree
>
> look at a bird
> there u go
>
> half of your cellular needs have been met right
> there
> oxygen, sun light
>
> you'll figure out the rest as u go
>
> oh yeah, after you're done with that
> climb the tree
>
> then plant your favorite foods
>
> whatever they may be
>
> then figure out if u want to eat them or not
>
> easy does it
> like gosia says


That is beautiful! Just like being a kid again. I want to go lay in the grass, look at the sky, and think about my life..... Thanks la_veronique.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2007 07:50AM by Rawrrr!.

<<I want to go lay in the grass, look at the sky, and think about my life>>

doooooo it rawrrrrr dooo it!!!
yeaahhhhhhhHHH!!

have you been tested for b12 deficiency, dancerinthenight?

As someone raw for a long time used to say u dont have to like it just eat it. Than my tastes buds changed and love eating things that I wouldnt have put in the shopping cart. With the amount ailments you have been pretty SAD before and anything that isnt processed to alterd just looks blaw or plain. I will be doing distant healing for you. Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I ate a SAD diet about 18 months ago (heavy meat, lots of dairy, a few greens and no fruit at all). I also never ate fruit because I had bought into the idea that those sweet calories were bad because and a waste.

I transitioned from there to vegetarian, vegan and now raw vegan and along the journey my tastes have completely changed. I now love fruit (in fruit of me on my desk right now are mango, baby banana, apples and avocado...mmmm)

The other things that changed include:
no more chronic sore throats/swollen tonsils
energy levels way up
mental state and anxiety much better (hard to imagine how they were before)
blood pressure down 50 points (diastolic!)

I also used to eat 300 grams of protein a day fairly routinely, mostly whey, casein and beef. It took me over a year to stop thinking I had to eat a large amount of protein. After going 100% raw for a while though my body told me no more, and I have opened myself to the logic that if I am only losing 10-20 grams of protein a day I only need that much (so I only need to eat a little more than that since the body is not 100% efficient).

A beautiful journey of health and abundance awaits! And baby steps are okay!

Well, know that the body absorbs plant protein much better than it absorbs meat protein. So you may easily eat lots of meat protein but absorb an insufficient amount.

Raw foods contain all the essential amino acids, which are the building blocks of protein. Your body can use them in this form. For starters, drink lots of dark green juice and try to incorporate such foods as nuts, seeds, sprouted legumes, and dark greens in your diet.

mershwista, that is healthful advise.

i am exactly like you dancerinthenight,, actually was, ive been going from 100% raw to sad (veggitarian or vegan i didnt eat meat even tho i hav strong cravings) on and off for months, but in the beginning omg i really didnt like fruit, it just tasted meh, i coudnt eat pineapple, or mango, or bananas or nething like that it was just waaay 2 sweet about the only fruits i could eat were apples, and wild berries, and tomatoes and even those were 2 sweet, and i liked greens tho i luved spinache and bean sprouts, so maybe if u eat really mono, like really mono, youll get used 2 it, cuz now and its been about 2-3 months (and i wasnt 100% raw for those months either) and i can eat a whole pineapple in one sitting and bananas are soooo goood :] and i luv mango i just eat the whole thing and get all juicy and mangoey everywhere :p so maybe just doing the greens thing and eating stuff like avocado and tomato will help yor taste buds change bc they deffinately will change and then u gotta b carefull not to eat too many sweet fruits hehehehe :p so dont worry youll get there :] good luck!!

I love all of this discussion. One thing that feels so good about this forum is that there is no judgement. Simply sweet souls wanting to be supportive and help provide guidance. I love it!

In answer to someone's question - I do test b12 deficient and protein deficient. But I do have leaky gut. So yes. The question remains - Will eating fish and meat correct this or simply prolong malabsorption issues.

I do have to say. The past few days the sun has been shining and it has been warmer. The idea of fruit is becoming more appealing.

I am so interested to see where I will end up with this whole thing. One thing that motivates me greatly, aside from my health, is that I am making my living dancing now. And inflammation simply is not OK. Swollen knees and ankles - Can't do it!

Thank you all for your love.