Hello all!

Just wondering if someone can give me an example or a link to a menu or a shopping list for a single day of high raw vegan food that meets all nutritional requirements? vitamins a-k (including B12), protein, iron, zinc, calcium etc?

Also, does anyone have a link to a site where if I thought I had a vitamin a defiency for example, it would list vegan sources for vitamin a?

Thanks in advance Going medium/high raw as of Monday and want to make sure I'm 100% prepared!

nutritiondata.com has a nutrient finder that would work for finding which foods are high in a particular nutrient.

If you get most of your calories from fresh fruit, and the rest from leafy greens and salad-like vegetables (eating fresh produce only, not processed foods like oils, butters, nuts, seeds), and you eat enough of these foods to get your energy needs met, you will have enough of vitamins, minerals, fiber, and water .

In nature, no animals (other than humans) looks up the RDA for their bodies and then makes a decision what to eat.

If you go to a nutritional calculator (like fitday, nutritiondata, nutridiary) and put in a daily menu with 90% of the calories coming from a variety of fresh fruits found in your grocery stores, and 10% of the calories coming from salad vegetables, you will find that almost all the RDA is surpassed. Make sure the total calorie count comes to your caloric or energy needs. The nutrients where it isn't surpassed are those nutrients that have been politically manipulated to encourage the consumption of animal products (protein, B-12, D, zinc, etc).

Hi rawnoggin,

I had the same concerns as you, so I went through the numbers using the USDA's nutrient database to design a daily meal plan that would provide at least 100% of the RDA of all nutrients. Here is what I designed for myself, based on that: it's a "moderate" approach (in my opinion, lol ) in that it isn't super-high fruit or super-high fat, and it also has sprouts and legumes, and that somewhere from slightly (120%) to extremely (1800%) exceeds the RDAs for all nutrients. Of course, these are conservative estimates for many of these nutrients, as the absorption and bioavailability is higher for raw, organic foods, so my estimates of the RDAs are minimums.

Formula (percentage by calorie--note: very different from percentage by volume or weight):
50% fruit
30% fat (nuts, seeds, coconut, avocado, cocoa butter)
8% greens
8% sprouted legumes
4% vegetables

Plus:
B12 supplement
Celtic sea salt (to balance myself out when I have too much potassium relative to sodium--so maybe 1/4 tsp. a day on average--and for iodine)
20 minutes of sun at least 2-3x a week (for vitamin D)



So this is what my daily consumption looks like:

Meal 1:
- 400-500 g (1 lb) of kale, bok choi, dandelion, and/or parsley (avg. 150-200 cal)
- 2 large, or 3 small, gala, fuji or braeburn apples (avg. 200 cal.)
(Blend together to make a giant smoothie. Blend *extremely* well with 1/2-1 c. water, otherwise it is too fibrous. Start with with less than this, or juice it, and work your way up.)

Meal 2 (roughly 2-4 hours later, when feeling hungry):
- 400-500 calories fruit (usually pick two fruits for an "almost mono meal" from among bananas, peaches, cherries, raspberries, blueberries, watermelon, pears, oranges, blackberries, cantaloupe, honeydew melon, nectarines, grapes, etc.)

Meal 3 (1-2 hours later, when feeling hungry):
- 400-500 calories fruit (usually pick two fruits for an "almost mono meal" from among bananas, peaches, cherries, raspberries, blueberries, watermelon, pears, oranges, blackberries, cantaloupe, honeydew melon, nectarines, grapes, etc.)

Meal 4 (1-2 hours later, when feeling hungry):
- 50-60 grams of nuts and seeds (pick one from among almonds, unhulled sesame seeds, pistachios, macadamias, cashews, hazelnuts, raw jungle peanuts, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, walnuts, pecans, and hemp seeds) (325 cal.)
- 2 brazil nuts (for selenium) (65 cal.)
- 3 tbsp flax seed (165 cal.)
- 1 small or 1/2 avocado, 2 tbsp coconut oil, or 2 tbsp raw cocao butter (~ 230 cal.)

Meal 5 (2-3 hours later):
- sprouted legumes, pre-sprout volume of 1/3 cup dried legumes (rotate red lentils, green lentils, chickpeas, peas, mung beans, adzuki beans, and fava beans)
(150-180 cal.)
- 1-4 handfuls of veggies (tomatoes, cucumbers, sprouts, green leafy vegetables, onion, etc.) (50 cal.)


This is working very well for me. I feel great, like there is some small box next to my heart time-releasing low doses of endorphins The five things that helped me a lot--in addition to tracking my nutrients--were (1) reducing my fat intake from a high to moderate fat diet, (2) increasing my fruit intake, (3) making sure that I only eat very ripe fruit (unripe fruit is very harsh on my teeth, so I can't eat much of it, plus it's harder for me to enjoy and eat a lot of), (4) eating *lots* of greens (has helped to heal holes in my teeth, plus eliminates salt and cooked food cravings, and leaves me feeling more balanced), and (5) eating enough calories.

But this or a similar diet may not work well for many others, particularly, the large amount of greens, the simple food combinations, and the less spontaneous, more planned out nature (which I find reassuring, but others may find too constraining). But I offer it as one example of how to exceed all the RDAs. Also, I'm sure my diet will continue to evolve in the future--probably slightly more towards less fat, even more greens, and more fruit--so this is just a snapshot of where I am currently.

I can't go through all the mechanics of why I made all the choices I did here because it would take a long time, but they are well thought-out. Here are some examples: the omega-6/omega-3 ratio for this is 2:1, and the calcium/magnesium ratio is also as it should be 2:1. The fat ratios, including saturated fat and mono-unsaturated fat, is designed to closely parallel the ratios in wild fruit (which is higher in fat, especially saturated fat, than the cultivated fruits we eat).

Also regarding the one supplement (well two, if you include sea salt): It hasn't been *proven* in a scientific research study published in the literature that raw vegans can *reliably* get bona fide vitamin B12 from vegan foods (or recycle it indefinitely), so being a scientist at heart, I supplement with methylocobalamin. Regarding the sea salt, I'm having a hard time getting enough sodium without small additions of sea salt (can't eat much celery, since it seems to numb my tongue--odd huh?), but pretty much everything else can be obtained from a balanced, very diverse raw vegan diet. The sea salt is important to me because if the potassium/sodium ratio is too high (basically, on days I eat too much melon or such), I occassionally get bad light-headed feeling and pee a lot (the body trying to rid itself of excess potassium), so every once in a while (like a couple times a month), I notice this, eat a some sea salt, and it goes away withing a few minutes.

I hope all this helps! I'd be curious to see other people's posts on how they meet or exceed the RDAs.



P.S. Email me if I can be further help, since I don't come to this forum often.

The RDA guidelines were designed for SAD eaters, not for raw foodists.

Probably no one knows for certain what a raw foodist needs nutritionally, since there is no financial payoff for anyone who could or would do such a long term study.

Lots of ppl have experimented on themselves with optimum diet over years or decades, and some ppl make educated guesses based on similarities between humans and other animals (esp. primates).

I think it's great that you're striving for the best nutrition for yourselves, but you might find, like lots of ppl here, that the RDA isn't appropriate for you.

Bryan said some nutritional figures were false and I think so too. Even if they were set with good intentions, they were still set for ppl who can't digest all the protein they eat - so the protein amounts would be inflated on the assumption that more protein was needed to assimilate the amount deemed necessary for good health, while the undigested protein would wind up in the toilet.

I consumed red meat to help with my anemia - more than enought to heal me, and it barely helped.

Only when I went raw, did I see the colour come back into my face and my energy improve - from eating lots of chlorphyll-rich foods.


If I eat the amount of protein in the RDA, I feel lethargic and sickly, even though I'm only eating raw nuts, etc. Bryan pointed out that it was just too much fat and too much protein. I cut way back (though I'm still over the 10% mark) and feel much better and I don't crave as much fat and protein as I used to. I was eating lots of nuts cuz I thought I should - I was afraid I wouldn't get enough protein and fat! This is all SAD - diet reasoning and it just doesn't work for me at all anymore.

Anyway, I know what you mean about the right doses of nutrients in your system - it feels great not having such extreme highs and lows.

Aquadeco, you say the RDA is designed for SAD (standard American diet) eaters, not for raw foodists. I can assure you though that there are many raw foodists who DO find the RDA helpful.

Many of us have used the RDA at least to some extent to help maintain a healthy raw food vegan diet. And there are those of us (the 80-10-10 people for instance) who quite regulary make use of the USDA nutritional database (or some other site that gets their information from USDA like Fitday.com or nutritiondata.com), to determine their caloric ratio for carbs, fats, and proteins, and/or for adjusting their overall caloric intake, or for some other purpose like tracking their calcium or iron, while not finding the other nutritional information useful for THEM.

Being a raw food vegan is a high choice, no matter what particular regime an individual chooses to follow - whether a person decides to follow the RDA in its entirety or maybe just part of it or maybe none of it. It's a high choice because it doesn't depend on harming others. Period. In the bigger picture, that's the most important thing about it.

For sure, there may be one way to do it that's more healthy for the consumer than another way. But until we consumers have all reached a ripe old age and some of us are running marathons and others of us are dead, none of us really knows what exactly is the BEST raw way, even if we DO know that one way makes us feel better in the MOMENT than another way.

Seems to me that the older a person gets, and the more they learn, the more aware they are that they don't know very much at all - that's if they're lucky and they're paying attention.

We may all be surprised to find that people of varying raw food diets live to a healthy old age. Or we may even find that our own way wasn't the right way after all. It wouldn't hurt to keep our minds a little bit open to ALL raw ways. Maybe we could learn a little from EACH way.

Personally, as for the RDA, I'm somewhat of a moderate between (A) following the RDA to the letter and ( believing the RDA is all just propaganda put out by the meat industry. I like to know I'm getting enough iron and calcium (nuts and seeds are good sources for iron and calcium), while at the same time keeping my fat as low as comfortable, and yet still have the energy to run, do yoga, work on my fruit orchards, etc. In my experience, nuts can be a fresh and healthy food if you grow them yourself (like I do) or buy them fresh from an organic grower. Seeds can also be a fresh and healthy food, if you buy them organic and soak or sprout them.

I take a methylcobalamin B12.

Most agree that the RDA figures are deliberately set somewhat higher than necessary, since the people who determined the figures were more concerned with getting enough nutrition, rather than getting too much food.

If we're raw vegans, we may not all of us follow the same food beliefs. But thankfully, we're raw vegans, and that's what counts.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2007 09:16AM by suncloud.

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply So far, I've been working out my food the day before/early morning, then taking a necessary supplement if I am less than 90% of the RDA. Protein hasn't been a problem so far (eat lots of nuts!), but I am definitely having problems with zinc, and occasionally calcium. I've been taking a B12 supp to be on the safe side, can't hurt.

I don't mean to judge but when I read on here some people only eating about 500 calories worth of fruit a day, I become a little concerned- I've been vegan for a really long time and was in great health up until a few years ago when I hit the caffeine, deep fried tofu, sweets, home made fudge etc. I'm worried that because there are foods that I really can't see me replacing (aloo gobi w/ naan bread, vegan lasagne, baked potatoes etc), I'm more likely to NOT eat or reach for a sandwich because the idea of a green salad isn't going to do it for me, and that kind of scenario does not appeal to me. I really don't want to end up thinking that some oranges, apples and melons are all I feel like eating. Whether the RDAs are right or wrong, I know that I'll be missing out on essential nutrients.

Anyhow, so far, zinc has been the most difficult one. I'm not a big fan of pumpkin seeds (if I eat them on their own, they make me feel nauseous), any suggestions guys?

PS: sciencegal, thanks so much for the example menu and salt info!

According to nutritiondata.com:

1 cup of raw wheat germ supplies 94% of the RDA for zinc. Raw wheat germ is very tasty with green salad and an olive oil and lemon juice dressing. IMO any more than 1/3 cup of wheat germ in a really big salad might be a little too much. But you could maybe try it out and see what you think.

1/2 cup of brown (unhulled) sesame seeds will supply 36% of the RDA for zinc, and 70% of the RDA for calcium. I often eat 1/4 - 1/2 cup of sesame seeds in a day, soaked overnight. 1/4 cup of sesame seeds has more calcium than a whole cup of whole milk.

An orange supplies 7% of the RDA for calcium. So 5 in a day would supply 35%.

1 cup of scotch kale supplies 14% of the RDA for calcium.

Once, when I wanted to start a raw food diet, I visited a vegan nutritionist for advice. She said the thing to do was aim for 50% of a given nutrient and the rest of my needs would be covered from the addition of trace amounts of the nutrient in all my other foods.

She also said that when the amounts for nutrients were established, those figures were all doubled for the RDA as a precaution to make sure people got enough of everything.

You might see if there's a vegan nutritionist near you who you could consult with ocassionally.

I'm with Bryan.

It's very possible to get 5 mg of Zinc just by eating fruit and vegetables. People say they have eaten that way for a very long time without any problems.
It's very possible also to get 300-400 mg of Calcium.

Here's a good one: With the logic and intuition I have, I think fruits and vegetables are the very best food for me. Fruit can last up to about two weeks when picked from the tree. Look at all the colors, and the smell and it fits perfectly in your hand if you don't have very small hands ;=)

How does a nut look like? How does it smell to you? How easy is it to break the shell with your hands? How tasty is it, really? Can you make meal of just that? There's no right or wrong answer here. I'm just doing some inquiry and I choose the fruit!!

rawnoggin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


>
> I don't mean to judge but when I read on here some
> people only eating about 500 calories worth of
> fruit a day,

i think there is only a few people that eat this small amount ..

I become a little concerned- I've
> been vegan for a really long time and was in great
> health up until a few years ago when I hit the
> caffeine, deep fried tofu, sweets, home made fudge
> etc. I'm worried that because there are foods that
> I really can't see me replacing (aloo gobi w/ naan
> bread, vegan lasagne, baked potatoes etc),

If you dont see yourself giving them up dont worry about it , baked potatoes, vegan lasagne etc are still vegan .. nobodys gonna tell on ya hehe
not sure what your concern is ... if you want to go 100% raw .. you will give things up ... if you dont want too ..then be happy with whatever percentage your comfortable with

I'm
> more likely to NOT eat or reach for a sandwich
> because the idea of a green salad isn't going to
> do it for me, and that kind of scenario does not
> appeal to me.

and thats ok ..your body your decision

I really don't want to end up
> thinking that some oranges, apples and melons are
> all I feel like eating. Whether the RDAs are right
> or wrong, I know that I'll be missing out on
> essential nutrients.

maybe you will maybe you wont... cooked food has alot of missing nutrients too

>
> Anyhow, so far, zinc has been the most difficult
> one. I'm not a big fan of pumpkin seeds (if I eat
> them on their own, they make me feel nauseous),
> any suggestions guys?

i'll see if i can find a source(s) of for you ..how much zinc does one need anyways ? what are the deficiency symptoms?

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I am one of these "types" who only consumes 500cal a day typically. I eat what I want, until I am full- not for emotional reasons, or boredom. When I am full I stop.

As far as RDA.. I get rather confused by this- you dont see SAD people sitting about fretting about getting enough nutrients. When living on convenience foods noone worries about minerals/vitamins. Eat when you are hungry, until full, varied organic produce- what you want. You will flourish and be healed from your ailments. Without crunching stats, worrying, fretting or fumbling over government nutritional guidelines.

Feel your way..

Hope you find the right thing for you

Raw_dancer

Hello everyone and thanks for your input

I think I'm finding I want to be raw, but because of my very lazy attitude to food (and the horrible things I put my body through and the emotional issue of it all), I feel I need to be in it totally to be able to stick with it, and to get the results I want. If I slip up, that'll be it! One day it'll be a baked potato... the next day, it'll be a can of coke, then a coffee, then junk. When I eat junk, I need more junk. I have a stressful, impulsive lifestyle! I know that being raw is best for me, I've accepted that, but I need to make sure I do this properly, and give my body as much as it needs, as opposed to just my taste buds ;-)

For me, I feel zinc has been an issue for quite some time now. In my very early teens, due to a terrible SAD diet/lifestyle I had really dull, blotchy spotty skin. I carried this through on/off till when I went vegan (it got so much better!).

Even now, I'm pretty sure I don't get enough zinc. I'm talking about less than 50% of the RDA. I will try upping my intake of the suggested foods. I hate resorting to supps, so will try and get a balance of everything without 'forcing' myself into reaching the RDA by reaching for something I don't feel like eating!

Totally agree that the SAD folks are probably the most malnourished of all!

My dad ate a pot noodle for dinner last night. A pot noodle!!!

From ric at vegsource.com:

The RDA for zinc is 15 milligrams.
It is commonly said that pumpkin seeds are a great source of zinc....but calorie for calorie there are two seeds with more zinc than pumpkin seeds.

mg. of zinc per hundred calories:
watermelon seeds 1.84 mg.
sesame seeds 1.73 mg.
pumpkin seeds 1.38 mg.
cashew 1.05 mg.
sunflower seeds 0.91 mg.
flax seeds 0.86 mg.

The kings of zinc are not seeds at all, but low-fat vegetables. There are many vegetables with more zinc (calorie for calorie) than pumpkin seeds. Here are just a sampling.

mg. zinc per hundred calories:
endive 4.67 mg.
baby zucchini 3.95 mg.
parsley 2.97 mg.
radicchio 2.72 mg.
asparagus 2.71 mg.
spinach 2.30 mg.
green cauliflower 2.05 mg.
argula 1.89 mg.
yellow tomatoes 1.87 mg.
summer squash 1.81 mg.
Boston lettuce 1.54 mg.
Chinese cabbage 1.46 mg.
cucumber pealed 1.42 mg.
romaine lettuce 1.37 mg. (slightly less than pumpkin seeds - included for reference)
There is also a fruit that calorie for calorie supplies almost as much zinc as pumpkin seeds...blackberries.
mg. zinc per hundred calories:
blackberries 1.23 mg.
raspberries 0.81 mg.
cantaloupe 0.53 mg.
jackfruit 0.45 mg.
strawberries 0.45 mg.
peach 0.44 mg.
apricot 0.42 mg.
(all listed items above are in their raw state)

Regarding zinc deficiency:
Phytic acid is found in legumes, peas, wheat, barley, and oats. Of any studied legumes, whole soybeans have the highest levels of phytic acid.
Phytic acid is a strong chelator of important minerals such as zinc and can therefore contribute to deficiencies of zinc and other minerals (such as calcium, magnesium and iron).
Highly illustrative of the perverse nature of dietary recommendations is that grains and beans are commonly listed as good "sources" of zinc...thus we have inhibitors of the absorption of a nutrient listed as a source of the same.
Another cause of mal-absorption is Celiac disease. Celiac disease is caused by a reaction to gliadin, a gluten protein found in wheat (and similar proteins in barley, oats and rye). Upon exposure to gliadin, the body's immune system cross-reacts with the enzyme tissue transglutaminase, causing a inflammatory reaction that leads to flattening of the lining the small intestine, which interferes with the absorption of nutrients, including zinc. The only effective treatment is a diet, lifelong in principle, from which gluten is absent. Celiac disease affects approximately 1% of Caucasian populations, though it is significantly under-diagnosed.

So here we have things inhibiting the absorption of zinc, which will never afflict those of us on the 811 diet.
Also, my feeling is that since:

1) grains and beans are common in the standard American diet, and
2) the associated Celiac disease (caused by grains) is widespread in the population,that the RDA for zinc has been set artificially high in order to cover the majority of the population who are regularly consuming those foods which inhibit its absorption, and the many who suffer from mal-absorption disease caused by grains.

Simply this...if you are not committing the dietary errors which result in mal-absorption of zinc (and other minerals), you do not need as much as those who are.

Stress:
Stress is not a reason to avoid the healthiest diet...it is a reason that it is imperative to adopt the healthiest diet. There is no contraindication to healthful living. Much of stress is outside of our control...but much of diet (what is at the end of our forks) is within our control. So we take care of the things within our control, to assist weathering the things outside our control.

thank you,
ric

Hi Rrraw! Thanks for all the information, will have a read through and work out the best route from here.

With the stress levels, it's not that I feel I need caffeine to exist, but more, it's an old habit- I used to associate only being happy/having my thirst quenched by drinking cans of coke! (crazy, I know)- that I'm likely to slip into when I feel I need energy when staying up late working. I'm not good with pressure! If I had a deadline that required me staying awake all night, I would tell myself I could only do it with the help of fizzy drinks. Even when they were making me sick, I was still drinking them- so I have some very deep addictions there!

I've been very good so far though <proud, haha!> There's a bottle of the stuff in the fridge (not mine) and I haven't touched it

Thanks again everyone, really appreciated the time you guys have spent to answer my questions

Rawnoggin, once you start absorbing more nutrition and eliminating toxins, your cravings will abate. I'm just noticing that for me, after a few months mostly raw.
Just don't get too attached to the rda or you might wind up overeating foods you don't need and wondering why you don't feel better. Read what the long-time successful rawfoodists say about what works for them and use it as a guide, too.
Best of luck with your transition!

On The 80% Carbs 10% fat and protein, I find it easy to at least get 75% of the RDA ratios with a decent amount of calories. The only ones I'm usually low on are Vitamin D, B12 and Selenium. I'm not eating mushrooms and sunflowers everyday for that lol.

Judging by the other ..@#$%&.. the RDA and FDA recommends, I'm not too concerned with meeting their 100% guidelines. People eating cooked need more to balance out all the crap they eat and by eating something like Total Cereal with all it's vitamins, they're not absorbing half the vitamins in there compared to what I'd be absorbing in a glass of juice..which is the trick for me to getting my nutrients up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2007 07:21PM by LikeItOrNot.

Total Crap

LOL this was very..informative.
I like Victoria Boutenko's thoughts on allowing our body to TELL US what we need..
she did this with her entire family, and it ended up curing dis-eases!!
I got it from 12 steps to raw foods: How to end your addiction to cooked foods.
So far, it has worked well for me, but i think really everyone should follow thier own heart and body as to what is right for them