So, I had heard about the stimulant effects of cacao from theobromine. I was never much concerned since I didn't find it addictive or stimulating, personally. Then again, I never really felt much effect from minor drugs like aspirin, caffeine, ibuprofen, and just avoided them since it seemed like a good idea (plus, I never got any effect from them!). I always figured it was because I am so cerebral--I never have mood swings or energy swings, but I also have a hard time accessing my emotions (I want to, but they are buried so deep!).

But I have been doing intense yoga--meditation, pranayama. Earlier yesterday I felt a literal physical and emotional release from my gut (second chakra?) area. Later that evening I mixed cacao powder with stevia, mesquite, and stevia for a yummy sweet cacao paste. I hadn't had any in awhile and probably consumed 1/4 a cup or a little more.

A few hours later, I felt stimulated like never before--my heart was racing extremely quickly and I couldn't get to sleep for hours. I felt like I could run for miles but was afraid or hurting myself (falling over on myself). I was much too unfocused to sleep, but also too unfocused to get any work done.

At first, I thought, "Oh no, I've meditated too much and blown holes into my crown chakra!" But I have been self-pacing and not doing anything too unsafe. And then I remembered--the cacao! I must have blown something open (which is good) and increased my sensitivity--finally being able to experience that cracao-effect so many speak of. I bet I'd feel coffee and aspirin, too.

Finally today it's starting to wear off. I don't think I blew apart my chakras, since I'm getting back to normal. I do feel more open in my gut still, and exhausted (I hardly slept!).

Any other takes on this? I'm not all raw, but I eat water-cooked veggies and beans and limited condiments and fat (1-2 oz raw nuts/seeds/day), so pretty clean. And now I will be sticking to raw carob over cacao, with tastes better anyway (IMO)!

i think you achieved chemical overstimulation at a micro-biological level

but honestly i like your explanation better it sounds much more interesting !

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

i had a few downer experiences with cacao
my system is really sensitive though

if i eat cacao in very small amounts once in a blue moon
its okay

but there were times when the aftereffects were not really welcome
especially when trying to get some sleep

and not being able too
i wouldn't suggest eating cacao
the night before if u have a big day tomorrow
where u gotta wake up early and need your rest

also it can do weird things to your energy levels
it can make you crash too

i put too much in a smoothie once
and will never forget THAT experience

didn't like it
but it sure tasted GOOOOOOD !!

Yeah, I think my crown chakra is okay, that was paranoia from the stimulant.

It is yummy though--maybe next time it would be a good alternative if other people are drinking. Or earlier in the day. In moderation

I had kinda thought people were just hypochondriacs before! Now I am again reminded why you can never judge someone else...

I had a sack full of cacao nibs that my pregnant daughter discovered. She ground the nibs in a coffee grinder and made a hot chocolate drink. I don't know how oftain she drank this but it didnt take long before she started experiencing some speeding heart problems and sleaplessness. She became alarmed and told her doctor but she forgot about drinking the cocao she just thought she had a heart problem. She had about four visits with a cardio vascular doctor to have things checked out. Later I asked her how much of the cacao she drank and that possible that was what was giveing her heart problems. She doesnt touch the stuff now and I am going to toss the cacao nibs out. One thing to mention is she felt it had a very addicting power. I dont think the stuff is all that healthy for people.

I was eating cacao daily for a while,not a lot like 1 tsp at most but I developed mild heart palpitations from time to time but I didn't relate it to the cacao at first.

On another occasion, I had a lot of cacao and I was so jittery and hyper, it was not pleasant. I find it addictive and crave cacao,and have it occasionally, which is strange because before I started eating it as part of a raw diet I never really craved chocolate before..Still I don't kid myself it is a health food.

There are some cacaos that are suppsed to better than others, what do people think about that?,some people have said they get bad reaction from most cacao but there are few cacaos if processed correctly has less bad effect but I feel now that no cacao is really a health food is it even it doesn't have an extreme effect the cacao I was getting was the best quality criolla.

I guess we can live ok with cacao though. How come the universal source/God only put cacao in certain places if we were supposed to eat it, it doesn't really make sense now I think about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2008 11:10AM by Ariel55.

When you look at cacao in the countries that it is native to you don't find very many animals or birds feeding on it..That should be the first indication of it's suitability for use as a food for humans..Then, when you look at it's chemical make-up you find that the majority of it's chemical constituents are not vitamins, minerals, enzymes, etc. that are necessary for everyday human cellular activity..Instead, most of cacao's chemical make-up consists of stimulants..

My personal opinion is that if we could go back in time to the place where humans first started consuming cacao we would find that it was used only occasionally in ceremonies & rituals as a result of it's stimulating properties..The first humans to consume cacao in all likelihood reserved it for special occasions..The same can probably be said for alcoholic beverages & coffee..

Looking at all three of these foods objectively you have to ask yourself why any human would have persisted in eating these foods after the first taste..All three are bitter & foul tasting..They are not what a very young child would pick as a food of choice over say a piece of fruit..The only logical conclusion that you can come to is that the first humans persisted in eating these foods because of their stimulating properties, not because they tasted good..

It's quite obvious to modern scientists that the human brain craves stimulation in any of it's many forms..Perhaps this is an integral part of our genetic make-up, I personally do not know..What I do know is that my personal experience tells me that neither alcohol, coffee, nor cacao in any of their many forms is good for my body..So, I have elected not to eat any of these foods..

I believe that if you wish to eat cacao on rare occasions strictly for it's stimulating properties, then feel free to go ahead & do so..Realize that the downside to all stimulants is a period of time where you won't feel so well that usually lasts at least 10 times longer than the stimulating effects of the drug that caused the high..For truly sensitive people, including myself, the bad effects from cacao can last for days after the high wears off..

It is for these reasons that I no longer eat it..IMO, cacao is not a good food for humans..

Bruce

I used to be a chocolate addict both as a vegetarian and as a vegan! Now I enjoy raw cacao, but I wouldn't say I crave it. If a recipe I want to make calls for it, or I want to create a recipe with it, I will do so... but I never make cacao because I'm craving it, I don't crave it.

I do find it stimulating, in that if I eat a large portion of it, I will sleep less that night, or if I eat it very late, stay up much later that night. This can be beneficial for me in times when I need to complete a big project. The missed sleep is sometimes caught up on when I have time, or sometimes not missed.

I think that different people react differently to cacao. And I do believe that cacao from different companies must be of varying quality, and this may in part cause the variance in individual's reactions.

Cacao is hailed as a superfood. It has phenomenally more antioxidants than blueberries. It's extremely high in magnesium. I choose to enjoy it. But if you do have negative experiences with cacao, than it's probably best to avoid or severely limit your intake.

Sunflower
Raw Food Chef and Writer
Comfortably Raw
[www.comfortablyraw.com]

Other than the negative effects that cacao has on my brain & body, I have to take issue with cacao for another reason..

It is pretty much accepted across the board within the raw community that all drugs & foods that stimulate the brain & that have addictive properties are to be avoided..People transitioning from a cooked food diet into a raw vegan diet are encouraged, implored with, & sometimes browbeaten into eliminating addictive foods & drugs from their everyday consumption..

At the root core of the raw vegan philosophy, regardless of which branch an advocate (I will not use the word "Guru" to describe these folks) might subscribe to in their writings or lectures; is the tenet that all of these foods should be at the very least avoided, if not eliminated completely from a raw vegan diet..

If this is the case for refined sugars, refined starches, grains, alcohol, fermented foods, caffeine in the form of coffee & tea, etc., etc; then why-oh-why has such a large portion of the raw community embraced raw cacao..Looked at objectively without rose-colored glasses covering one's eyes, raw cacao is no better for humans than any of these other addictive foods..A stimulant is a stimulant is a stimulant..Period..

Yes, raw cacao has a very high percentage of anti-oxidants compared to other foods..It's also higher in magnesium content than a lot of other foods..I say, so what??..I say that a person should seek out & eat foods that do not contain large quantities of addictive substances to obtain anti-oxidants or magnesium..

Most people embracing raw cacao & promoting it's use are touting it's beneficial properties while downplaying it's negative properties..All addictive substances have some beneficial effects on the human body..In most cases the beneficial effects are limited & specific..All addictive substances should be used in moderation for very specific reasons, some medical, some not..Otherwise, a person will become addicted to the drug or food in question..Is this not one of the core reasons NOT to eat SAD foods??..

In order for cacao to become fit for human consumption it must be fermented..If the raw community is going to recommend avoiding fermented foods as a general rule, then why the widespread acceptance for raw cacao??..

IMO, there are two main reasons for the huge popularity of raw cacao within the raw community..

First, is the average person's unwillingness to give up the comfort foods that predominate the SAD diet..Thus, the huge successes of websites such as Alyssa Cohen's that encourage the making of raw foods that mimic as closely as possible in taste & appearance their SAD counterparts..Raw cacao falls neatly into this philosophy as most humans do not like it's bitter, astringent taste without some kind of sugar added to it..

Secondly, there are the many people making a lot of money off the sales of raw cacao..While the sales of raw cacao are dwarfed by those of cooked chocolate; it's still a significant amount of money, & not to be dismissed.. This is directly related to the first reason, ie. comfort foods..Cooked sweetened chocolate has to rank in the top 3 comfort foods across all cultures no matter where on the planet you go..Very few humans don't like chocolate in one of it's many forms..When most people transition to a raw vegan diet they usually experience intense cravings..Raw chocolate desserts are one of the most popular topics on raw food preparation forums..

IMO, chocolate is one of the last & hardest things for the transitioning raw vegan to give up..That's why there is so much buzz within the raw community over raw cacao..

I see it as somewhat hypocritical for the folks with books, web sites, & that lecture to promote in one breath a particular food that is fermented or full of addictive substances; while with the next breath these same people will come down on another food that is fermented or that contains addictive substances..

Bruce

Were you referring to me Bruce? I don't believe cacao is full of addictive substances. I do not feel addicted to it in the slightest. Perhaps it's a personal thing. I don't come down on any raw fermented food. I enjoy raw sauerkraut, and use miso as well. I do believe that fresh is usually best, but we all come to raw food from a different place, and different strokes for different folks, you know (o;

Sunflower
Raw Food Chef and Writer
Comfortably Raw
[www.comfortablyraw.com]

Excellent post Bruce.

I personally have found cacao to be addictive. I recognise the feeling of addiciton to non addiction as I was eating a simpler raw diet before raw cacao came along, and I never craved or desired it before and after I started eating it daily and then desiring things with cacao in. I kept trying to give it up but kept making excuses to use it, ie it is raw, a litle won't harm etc. I still have a problem with that and I still use it at times. At least I don't kid myself it is a healthfood you can have unlimited quantities of.

I also had mild heart palpitations and adrenal fatigue. I feel they were/are at least partially related to cacao in my case. Although there may have been other related factors such as stress but Cacao certainly doesn't help these issues at the very least.

I think that like many things, it affects people differently. I eat it, but usually only when I'm PMSsing -- it really helps my symptoms.

Personally I like using cacao for ceremonial purposes only.

It's a bit too stimulating for everyday use, IMO.

Sunflower

No, I was not referring to you in my last post, although I can see why you might have thought so with my second post coming on the heels of yours..

I was referring to the many prominent folks within the raw community that cannot seem to make up their minds on exactly what they espouse as far as the foods that should comprise a raw vegan diet..

After 2 years of intense everyday study, online, reading books, & attending lectures on the raw vegan diet I have come to the following conclusions..

The chances of the entire planet adopting a 100% raw vegan diet anytime soon remains an utopian dream; the stuff of a Star Trek: The Next Generation fantasy..

As practical early 21st Century raw vegans we have to accept that our way of eating is just going to be looked upon as weird, different, unpractical, stupid, wrong (pick a negative adjective, most will apply in the minds of the average SAD eater)..

The reasons for this are many, but the most basic of all the reasons is that the raw vegan diet challenges EVERYTHING that the cooked food eater "knows" to be true & rocks the very foundations of the SAD diet..No human being likes to have their core beliefs called into question, & will generally react as viciously as a momma bear protecting her cubs when their beliefs are challenged..Although the average raw vegan elects to adopt a non-confrontational policy when discussing his or her diet; it is our very existence that is an affront to most cooked food eaters..Which explains why in social eating situations so many SAD eaters simply cannot allow the raw vegan amongst them to quietly enjoy their meal..We have all experienced this..This type of behavior is not going to go away anytime soon..

As I see things, the raw community itself is to blame for much of the uncertainty..We have too many factions, or schisms, that cannot agree on the food choices that should comprise the raw vegan diet..

IMO, there should be two main definitions for a raw vegan..

First, there should be the 100% raw vegan..It is these men & women that should be allowed to proclaim themselves raw vegans..At some point in time the raw community is going to have to decide on a minimum time frame required for a person to have been successfully 100% raw in order to qualify for being labeled a raw vegan..We need to do this, just as farmers needed a certification program to quantify what was legally organic, so that newcomers to raw veganism can have a well-defined explanation of exactly what constitutes a raw vegan..At the present time confusion reigns..There are now hundreds of books in print espousing dozens of differing definitions as to what a raw vegan is..This confusion is not helping us to gain converts to raw veganism..

A raw vegan should, IMO, be anyone that eats raw fruits & or vegetables with a minimum of preparation in as close to their natural, just-picked state as possible..

The second category of raw vegan needs to be labeled partially raw, transitionally raw, not 100% raw, or something other than just raw..Most intelligent people, regardless of their educational level, can readily determine the difference between 100% raw (which is easily definable & quantifiable), & anything less than 100% raw (which may or may not, usually not, be easily defined or quantified)..

I do not for a moment doubt the sincerity of the vast majority of raw vegans that elect to create & eat what I call "constructed raw foods"..For the first 1.5 years that I embraced raw veganism this was the direction I traveled..Coming into raw veganism as a SAD chef this was perhaps both understandable & inevitable..

However, as I took a long hard look at the many so-called raw ingredients that are necessary to create these constructed raw foods that mimic SAD ones, I came to question how many of them are in truth actually raw..My conclusion, which I reached as a professional chef with a great understanding of the entire food chain from farm to table, is not very many of the manufactured ingredients can possibly be 100% raw..

There are many reasons for this uncertainty..The foremost reason is that there is no legal definition for raw foods that is accepted world wide..This allows each manufacturer in each country to set their own standards for what will, or will not, be raw..As we have seen time & time again in commerce, some people will obey the law while, if given the chance; a vast majority will choose to disobey the law if greater profits with less work is an option..

Look at the troubles already in existence with organic foods..Many countries simply cannot afford the infrastructure costs to establish organic regulatory agencies..If they are not doing it for organic foods, which now have a proven track record for bringing in greater profits over conventional produce; than can the raw community realistically expect these folks to establish the legal means to regulate what is & is not a raw food??..The answer at the present time is, no we cannot..

With the exceptions of those people have the opportunity to personally inspect the farms or manufacturers that market supposedly raw foods, the rest of the raw community must take on faith that these foods are indeed raw..As I see it, this is a fools errand..Too many of the manufacturing techniques necessary to transform a fruit or vegetable into an oil or sweetener are suspect when it comes to whether or not these processes exceed the 110-120 degree Fahrenheit maximum temperature established for being raw..The same applies to nuts..It's been pretty well established that raw cashews are not healthy for humans to eat, so the cashews that reach our kitchens are not really raw....Small-scale growers of other nuts may be able to market truly raw nuts, but how does the raw community KNOW that they are raw..The answer is simply that we cannot, do not, & will not KNOW if a food is truly raw until there is a legat certification process similar to what now exists for organic produce..Even then some will still attempt to cheat whatever system is established to certify raw foods..

The truth is is that if a person is going to embrace & eat a primarily constructed raw foods diet than they must accept the fact that they cannot at the present time know whether or not that all of the oils, sweeteners, & nuts that constitute such a large percentage of these foods are in fact raw..This uncertainty does nothing to help validate the raw vegan cause..Many cookbook authors, raw forums, & lecturers are promoting what I consider to be a diet that is questionably raw..

The problem as I see it with the entire raw constructed food diet is that it reaches a point with every aspiring raw vegan where it no longer functions as a healthy raw food choice..If you look at the nutritional make-up of the vast majority of these constructed foods that mimic a SAD counterpart, the percentage of fats to other ingredients is far too high..Many of these foods have fat percentages that exceed 30 percent..I've seen some that top 50 percent..Most of the desserts that I made from published raw recipes, or invented myself, had high sugar percentages as well as high fat percentages..While many of these foods taste good, they were not that much healthier than their SAD counterpart..

I've got to leave the computer now to go do something else..I'll return & post the remainder of my thoughts on this issue later..Thanks for reading & commenting on this post..

Bruce

The fact that cacao is high in certain vitamins and minerals, in addition to its addictive quality, makes it seem like a health food. But poison oak is also high in vitamins and minerals. Except it has a toxic quality that is annoying to humans, rather than useful for overworked and stressed humans.

There are foods that are high in vitamins and mineral with a very low toxin content, like greens, which are a much better alternative for getting the nutrients over cacao. Plus greens have a high water and soluble fiber content, two nutrients not found in cacao.

I love cacao. I make my own chocolate bar with nuts,coconut and cacao and that makes me very good. I feel very good and never had any problems with cacao.