David M, Fruitarian One, Suvine, and others...

I recall that, Suvine, you have mentioned long term fruitarians that you know?

Also, I also recall that david and suvine eat a lot of avocadoes, presumably with no ill effects?

I'm looking for some examples of people here or people that you know who eat only fruit.

what i'm looking for is people who eat virtually all fruit, and for how many years.

- Little or no greens
- Without regularly bingeing

thanks!

[www.rawfoodtalk.com]

This lady, who no longer posts on that forum, was a rawfooder her entire life and eats mostly fruit. She doesn't claim to be a fruitarian but she recorded what she ate that day and it was all fruit except for some cabbage:

"Well just eat what is availble and feel like

this morning I had papaya and lemon water

later I had some cherries

then I had a bundle of bananas

then I a few mangos

and some more lemon water

then I had some cabbage leaves

tried cooked food once when I was a teen because a friend dared me to try it. I thought it was awful. It made my tongue hurt and gave me a belly ache. Then I had it once after I married when my husband and went out for a special evening. We both got very sick and we never did that again."

She used to have her pic in her avatar and she wasn't super thin and scrawny, she looked just average. She said that she had never been sick, I wonder if by sick she meant hospital sick or that she never had a cold.

Everyone, on the board asked her so many questions that they scared her off!

There is my experience / case....of course....where I transitioned to all fruit slowly....and have been living that lifestyle for MANY years now. Yes....I acquired a taste for avocados after many years of not liking them! ha! ha! And now usually eat them for lunch.....since they are chocked full of calories. Kind of a compact time-saver! Still....I think it is wise for those whose systems are not rather clean to probably limit their intake...as they see wise.

-The reality....in my own experience/opinion is that the folks that I have met...that even come CLOSE to approximating that style of eating are the healthiest and happiest people I know! Are they FREE of difficulty....fear...anxiety....trepidation? NO....but they are living the higher passion of their dreams.....and they have found the necessary fuel. THAT is why eating that way is not for everyone.....and why it is not simply a discipline to be intellectually chosen. One can play the guitar VERY well.....but a hard rock lifestyle is one that needs to be entered into.......and then playing the guitar will arise as a necessity.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

thanks david and tropical.

to clarify, my main query is regarding the necessity of greens...

so for anyone who answers, how long without greens?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2007 09:54PM by fresh.

I would be quite keen to hear the about this as well ?

About 5 years.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

12-13 years now without greens, it just doesn't appeal to me so I don't have it....

If it appeals to you go for it...don't worry about anyone else

F1

ok, david and F1,

thank you. i didn't know you'd both been going that long.
I'm asking in order to collect information to counter the claim by d graham that it can't be done long term without greens.

so one more followup question, what about nuts and seeds?
how much, how often over those years?

No....no nuts or seeds. About the same time...5 years....or a shade under.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

The same...12-13 years, no nuts, greens, water, supplements or seeds, just because someone says it can't be done doesn't mean it can't be done, everybody told me that and some even said I'd die, but hey, just goes to show how much we all know, I've spent some time with Doug and he really doesn't care that much about the fruit debate, he's been nothing but supportive towards me and a complete gentleman, so I wouldn't go picking a worthless argument with him just for the sake of being right, it just ain't worth it....if your not already, work on being the best you can be and live the lifestyle for yourself so you can speak from your own experience and not use strangers as your examples.

Why are you singling out Doug Graham anyway, all the other "gurus" say that you cannot survive on fruits, so why not get them suckahs too?

Be good

F1





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2007 02:42AM by The Fruitarian One.

The Fruitarian One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I've spent some time with Doug and he really
> doesn't care that much about the fruit debate,
> he's been nothing but supportive towards me and a
> complete gentleman

that's great to hear


>, so I wouldn't go picking a
> worthless argument with him just for the sake of
> being right, it just ain't worth it

you're making an assumption about me that's not true.

dg just today said that he's never seen anybody do it and that everyone fails after a few years, so i was just curious about y'all. nothing about picking an argument. you can check vegsource for yourself. if he's met you, then what he's said is false and i'm thinking people shouldn't be making blatantly false statements just to make a point.

[www.vegsource.com]


>
> Why are you singling out Doug Graham anyway, all
> the other "gurus" say that you cannot survive on
> fruits, so why not get them suckahs too?

i'm not out to get anyone. just doing some fact checking.
it's what i do. i don't tell you what you should be doing, eh?

also i was interested for myself about the necessity of greens and how others have fared.

perhaps you could allow me my own way, which is to collect information, instead of repeatedly telling me to ignore others and take care of myself. this, while generally good advice, doesn't apply in all cases for all people.

thanks for the response

peace

I don't think they are singling out Dr. Graham
I think it's due to him making a statement on his board about fruitarians not being a wise choice. He states he's known quite a few that have lost teeth, died, etc.

Made me think twice I gotta tell ya. Dr. Graham is pretty well respected by many.

I apologize, Fresh, no offense intented!

Doug has been saying that for years infact he was one of the first "gurus" to tell me that 12-13 years ago and I don't expect him to stop anytime soon...Ha,ha,ha!

Be good

F1

thanks F1, good thing you didn't listen to him, or anyone, i know it gives one a great sense of personal power when you do it your way and find your own truth.

Ha-ha, F1, quite the rebel :O)

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thanks F1, good thing you didn't listen to him, or
> anyone, i know it gives one a great sense of
> personal power when you do it your way and find
> your own truth.


No worries, yes your right, it gives me a huge sense of empowerment and that's why I always tell people to just go a head and do what works for them because of what I went through, because everyones using the same methods and doing the same things and getting the same results and very few people are really happy with what they are doing.

So for me it's a matter of letting people say what they want to say and just making sure I'm happy!

Be good!

F1

tanawana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ha-ha, F1, quite the rebel :O)

Ha,ha,ha....seems that way don't it!!!

yep..most gurus..no matter how flighty and out-there - or conversely - grounded (to science or whatever - in Graham's case....all rely quite heavily on empirical evidence. (whether they look to nutrition science/ biological similarities ot primates----or dark matter telescopes and blood tests or whatever.

Some I think are probably quite keen to other truths..but the information they supply is often targeted to a mass audience...so they often say what is 'appropriate'. Often with others, whatever is outside their spectrum..is just not happenin' with them.

for most people (starting out, or been on the path a bit)...I assume..and this IS out of my experience..going on a strict enforced diet of only light fruits..without any dense vegetable matter or fats...whether its the ideal human diet or not...is too light a fare for the awakening putrefaction ...

...so it is possible people could bring on very acute symptoms...and would likely change their diet..prior to nastier things..like death. That's why Ehret...really knew what he was talking about with 'The cure' being worse than the disease. and transitioning back to health..whatever that means to the individual...or their dietary regime etc..

Fresh,
You are right to question the statements that Doug Graham has made about exclusively fruit-based diets being unsustainable. I challenge that idea. I submit that when someone fails on an all-fruit diet, there are many possible factors to be considered, and these should not include the fact that greens were omitted. Or at least that's the very last thing that should be considered. Often, however, it's the first conclusion that is seized on, thanks to the very widespread and irrational mineral deficiency phobia.

Just last night I heard Dr. Graham talk and he said very explicitly that "your science should align with your senses". What that means is that we should be eating WHAT WE LIKE and nothing else. It means that if you put a leaf of romaine lettuce in your mouth and it tastes bad, you should not eat it. This presents a problematic conflict because while Dr. Graham advocates following our senses he also advises us to eat greens (lettuce, celery) even if we don't like them. I'm sure if pressed he would say it's fine to follow your senses in the short term, but his position is very firmly on the side of forcing greens down at some point if it happens that they still don't appeal to you after a certain undetermined (and undeterminable, I might add) threshold.

Let's have a look at what these long-term, all fruit eating people who "failed" were eating. Let's look at their other lifestyle habits, ESPECIALLY how MUCH they were eating. Let's objectively explore what goes wrong when people don't sustain a good diet over the long haul, instead of jumping on ideas that can't be backed up by nature. If it was true that we should be eating according to what we THINK is healthy, why do all, all, all the other animals on earth get to eat only what they like and nothing else? Why are humans singled out? Please don't give me the cultivated food argument. When we grow food, we are just recreating nature. We can't fool nature into thinking the conditions are good just so it will give us the fruit. Cultivated food is not the best food but it is NOT artificial food and there's no reason we can't thrive on it. When we artificially inseminate a woman, does she have an artificial child?

I don't call myself fruitarian and I don't eat fruit exclusively because this would involve ignoring my sense-driven desire to eat other foods, like celery and lettuce, on occasion. I eat celery when it tastes good and only then, and I do the same with other greens. I hardly ever touch the greens that are purported to be the best even according to hygienists, like romaine and the other leaf lettuces. When I eat lettuce, 99% of the time it's iceberg.

Nature calls me to trust her 100%, not just when it matches up with my belief systems. Where our belief systems conflict with nature, we benefit by correcting them. Unfortunately, not very many people are willing to do this.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

Nora,

Thank you for posting this, it was just what I need to hear right now. I'm on day 5 of a fast and have been struggling with diet for a while. Despite my knowing better, the 'shoulds' have crept into what I eat and I think that's been the problem. Fruit is almost always the most natural thing for me to eat.

Thanks to all for being here, and to Nora and Fruitarion One for their great examples and leadership.

rawnora Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Hi Nora,

I was a bit confused by your post...

> You are right to question the statements that Doug
> Graham has made about exclusively fruit-based
> diets being unsustainable. I challenge that idea.

I thought recently you stated that there are no fruitarians - it is a manufactured concept. Do you hold this belief and at the same time think it can be healthful long term for humans?


> I submit that when someone fails on an all-fruit
> diet, there are many possible factors to be
> considered, and these should not include the fact
> that greens were omitted.

That is exactly what I think as well - I don't know of the cases he has seen but i think he's made an assumption that lack of greens is the cause when it may not be.


> Just last night I heard Dr. Graham talk and he
> said very explicitly that "your science should
> align with your senses". What that means is that
> we should be eating WHAT WE LIKE and nothing else.
> It means that if you put a leaf of romaine
> lettuce in your mouth and it tastes bad, you
> should not eat it. This presents a problematic
> conflict because while Dr. Graham advocates
> following our senses he also advises us to eat
> greens (lettuce, celery) even if we don't like
> them.

Is that true? I'm not certain he holds that belief.
It may be that he assumes others taste senses will match his own (that they will periodically be drawn to greens). or disregards data that doesn't match his philosophy, OR is erring publicly on the side of caution so he is not seen as advocating or supporting pure fruit diet.


>If it was true that we should be
> eating according to what we THINK is healthy, why
> do all, all, all the other animals on earth get to
> eat only what they like and nothing else?

i'm not so sure you can make that statement.
you think gorillas find bark attractive and tasty?
certainly hunger drives wild animals to eat whatever they can, not necessarily everything being a pure taste sensation?


> I don't call myself fruitarian and I don't eat
> fruit exclusively because this would involve
> ignoring my sense-driven desire to eat other
> foods, like celery and lettuce, on occasion.

I'm not certain if my greens eating is driven intellectually, or by nutrient need. but i do feel the need to counteract the sweetness that can sometimes feel like too much.



>I eat celery when it tastes good and only then, and
> I do the same with other greens. I hardly ever
> touch the greens that are purported to be the best
> even according to hygienists, like romaine and the
> other leaf lettuces. When I eat lettuce, 99% of
> the time it's iceberg.

interesting. i know dg finds nothing wrong with iceberg at all.
i also know that i eat according to what i like, but maybe not 100% of the time, there may be the other factors above entering into my decision making.

I agree with you guys and I think Anaken hit the nail on the head, these guru's are just watching their backs because they have to cater to a mass audience and one wrong word can send out the wrong message and ruin sales/reputations!

I say follow your heart and have fun experimenting!!!

Be good y'all

F1

I've just been to that vegsource site and read the post mentioned, I've seen that same response before years ago in exactly the same words if I remember correctly, anyway as I say, who cares, as long as your doing well....

F1

Fresh,

I’m really glad you asked for clarification because this is an important issue that lots of people want sensible information about, which they have not gotten so far. It’s also something I’ve done a lot of pondering on.

In fact, a couple years ago I wrote an article designed to answer the question “Do we need to eat greens, even if we don’t like them?” It was slated to be published in Living Nutrition Magazine but at the last minute Dave Klein (the publisher) shared it with Doug Graham. Of course the answer to that question is not black and white but I tried to answer with as much clarity and conclusiveness as possible. The bottom line is that the article was nixed by the publisher, mostly because both Dave and Doug had a problem with the fact that my answer was more “no” than “yes”. They both admitted (in writing) that they would answer the question with an unequivocal “YES”. I haven’t published my article anywhere although my plan is to put it up on my website at some point. I’d be happy to post it here if there is interest.


”I thought recently you stated that there are no fruitarians - it is a manufactured concept. Do you hold this belief and at the same time think it can be healthful long term for humans? “

I didn’t say there are no fruitarians, I said that fruitarianism is a manufactured ideal. That’s why I don’t call myself a fruitarian. Why declare to the world that you’re going to eat one type of food and one type of food only? Why not let your senses guide you? This is the law of nature that governs all the other species on earth.


>If it was true that we should be
> eating according to what we THINK is healthy, why
> do all, all, all the other animals on earth get to
> eat only what they like and nothing else?

”i'm not so sure you can make that statement.
you think gorillas find bark attractive and tasty?
certainly hunger drives wild animals to eat whatever they can, not necessarily everything being a pure taste sensation? “

What else besides sensory appeal do you propose would drive a gorilla to eat a particular food? (Do gorillas eat bark, btw?) Please submit your answer to the first question and then maybe I’ll understand where you’re going with it.


"I'm not certain if my greens eating is driven intellectually, or by nutrient need. but i do feel the need to counteract the sweetness that can sometimes feel like too much. "

Knowing what nutrients you need isn’t some mysterious ability that only awakens after you’ve been raw 10 years or something. It is much simpler than that. Foods that taste good ARE good. (To the detractors who would point out that Twinkies taste good: when I make this statement, I’m referring ONLY to foods as they are presented to us in nature.) That’s all there is to it. Your taste buds know what your body needs and will communicate this information via their response when you put something in your mouth. It’s perfectly fine to see something in the store and allow some mental impulse (“hmm ... I haven’t had ________ for awhile, maybe that's why I haven't been feeling so great”) to determine whether you buy it. I don’t recommend using this kind of criteria, btw, I think there are lots of other factors that should come first, like quality, ripeness, freshness, etc. Regardless of what makes you choose a food, however, what I’m saying is that it is absolutely NOT okay to go ahead and eat the thing if you get it home (or try it in the store) and it tastes bad to you. Your preferences represent extremely important information that should not be ignored.

This is the crux of my position. I’m not saying whether people should or should not eat greens, I’m simply saying that if a person doesn’t want them for his/her entire lifetime, there is NO danger in the person following his/her senses and doing without them. The whole issue may be mostly hypothetical because I’m not entirely sure a person would go his/her entire life not liking greens. All I know is I’ve gone many months without wanting them and I know lots of others who have the same experience and who are always asking me if they should force themselves to eat them. I say NO. Keep trying them and wait till they taste good to you.

In addition, the idea that greens are appealing because they “counteract” all the sweet stuff in your diet has more to do with addiction and appetite than nutritional requirements. When a person is new to fruit eating, cleansing produces symptoms that will be quelled by the consumption of greens or (better yet) greens covered with goopy fatty dressings. It is not so much greens that appeal (although even on their own they are more difficult to digest than fruit and can therefore suppress symptoms), but the stuff we put on them. One of the ways you’ll know you’re no longer addicted to food is when you can happily eat an unadorned head or two of iceberg lettuce for dinner. For the record, I’m not there yet.

Best regards,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

rawnora Wrote:

> “Do we need to eat
> greens, even if we don’t like them?”

i think that the oft stated reason is minerals and/or fatty acids, but i have not done a nutritional profile of a fruit only diet myself. you have claimed minerals are not a valid reason as i recall.


> What else besides sensory appeal do you propose
> would drive a gorilla to eat a particular food?

hunger? lack of other more appealing foods in the immediate envir.?

> (Do gorillas eat bark, btw?)

i mentioned it because i've tried bark and found it not tasty, but depends on what it is i suppose.

[www.colszoo.org]

Diet: The diet is similar to that of the chimpanzee, but these gorillas eat larger fruits and mature leaves and stems. The gorilla’s diet includes parts of at least 97 plant species, as well as invertebrates, such as termites and ants. About 67% of their diet is fruit; 17% is seeds, leaves, stems, and pith. Animal prey, including termites, caterpillars, and other insect larvae make up the rest. These gorillas eat fruits during the wet season and more herbs and bark in the dry season. They seem to prefer sugary fruits and pith, as well as protein-rich leaves and bark. Like other apes, gorillas feed on seasonal fruits and disperse seeds in their dung as they travel from place to place. The males range farther in the wet season in search of fruit and spend more time on the ground eating herbs in the dry season. Females feed higher in the trees and eat more leaves than males.


> Knowing what nutrients you need isn’t some
> mysterious ability that only awakens after you’ve
> been raw 10 years or something. It is much
> simpler than that.

i have never seen any research on our ability to sense specific nutrient needs, and seek out those items that contain same, but i haven't looked much.

> Foods that taste good ARE
> good.

i agree with this part. it's funny i remember now saying something like that to dg and he said, no, food quality can not be determined by taste. huh?
why does organic usually taste better, then?

i've used a refractometer and ended up with the conclusion that taste matches high brix and it's much easier.


> This is the crux of my position. I’m not saying
> whether people should or should not eat greens,
> I’m simply saying that if a person doesn’t want
> them for his/her entire lifetime, there is NO
> danger in the person following his/her senses and
> doing without them.

it seems possible. i mean 12 years is quite a long time as anecdotal evidence.
as i said, i was led to believe from multiple sources that fatty acids or minerals might be lacking without greens.

> without wanting them and I know lots of others who
> have the same experience and who are always asking
> me if they should force themselves to eat them. I
> say NO. Keep trying them and wait till they taste
> good to you.

right, we have a societal belief that we "should" eat our greens, and i did so in the beginning. but i often try to indicate to others that we should not force ourself to eat veggies - most people still do so.

>
> In addition, the idea that greens are appealing
> because they “counteract” all the sweet stuff in
> your diet has more to do with addiction and
> appetite than nutritional requirements.

i wouldn't say it's necessarily a nutritional need - i don't know. greens do taste good to me sometimes, and i eat them then. seems to me our food is sweeter than wild foods for the most part, and our bodies may not be prepared for it in many ways, hence the desire to moderate the sweetness. i'm sure i would do fine without any greens - it's may be partly a habit too, but then again i do very little nonsweet fruit except some tomatoes/avos, which impacts the scenario.

>When a
> person is new to fruit eating, cleansing produces
> symptoms that will be quelled by the consumption
> of greens or (better yet) greens covered with
> goopy fatty dressings.

ok, but not in my case since i'm not new to fruit eating

> One of the ways you’ll know you’re no
> longer addicted to food is when you can happily
> eat an unadorned head or two of iceberg lettuce
> for dinner. For the record, I’m not there yet.
>

i don't know if i'm still addicted, i would say i'm sailing pretty smoothly.
i have certainly eaten a head of lettuce many times no problem.
i would hope so, i started down this path 25 years ago, if not now, then when?

Foods that taste good ARE good.

i agree with this part. it's funny i remember now saying something like that to dg and he said, no, food quality can not be determined by taste. huh?

**Huh indeed! Yes, we all have our own personal refractometers. It's so convenient. Of course, some people don't seem to want life to be convenient and easy.

i was led to believe from multiple sources that fatty acids or minerals might be lacking without greens.

**Fatty acids lacking in an all fruit diet? Why not eat avocados if you want overt fats? Coconuts? Durian? And those are the high fat examples. All fruits have fatty acids in them, to the extent that adequately fills our needs. Adequacy is all the body requires.

ok, but not in my case since i'm not new to fruit eating

**Food addiction doesn't go away on its own, no matter how long you are raw. It takes deliberate effort and understanding what needs to be done, like giving up breakfast, decreasing food consumption and most importantly, not eating when symptoms appear (esp. the ones that are mistaken for hunger). Long term raw fooders typically make the same mistakes that SAD eaters do, with regard to the habit of eating to suppress symptoms rather than from legitimate hunger.

seems to me our food is sweeter than wild foods for the most part,

**Yes, that's the myth that is circulating around. I reckon it stems from the fact that the wild foods people eat because they think they're healthy are actually not only not sweet but are nasty tasting, like dandelion and such. Also, because so many of us live in areas where our natural foods do not grow, we compare the sweet taste of tropical fruits to those which DO grow voluntarily where we live, which naturally are not as sweet. It takes sunshine to produce sugar in foods. Here in Seattle we had the coolest summer on record (that's my unofficial observation) and the berries were sour. I tried 6 different kinds. By contrast, I don't often have opportunities to eat truly wild food but the wild apricots I ate this year (in the other side of the state, where they had a very warm summer) were the sweetest I've ever had. A friend of mine who's into the brix thing said they brixed extremely high for apricots. Imo, those who say wild foods are good for you because they are less sweet are just falling for the false but prevailing idea that sugar is bad for us. It's actually our highest nutrient need, next to water.

i don't know if i'm still addicted, i would say i'm sailing pretty smoothly.
i have certainly eaten a head of lettuce many times no problem.
i would hope so, i started down this path 25 years ago, if not now, then when?

**It's hard to say as there aren't very many people who have overcome food addiction. Being satisfied eating unadorned lettuce for a meal certainly is a good sign and not something most people can do without reaching for something else directly afterward. The other indicators are the ability to go without food for many (3-5?) days without symptoms (including weakness), low consumption at infrequent and typically irregular intervals, eating late in the day and a few others that may come to me later.

Nora
www.RawSchool.com

Hi Nora - Would you say that bloating and a gnawing sensation in the navel region could be considered symptoms? I love my fruit and certainly eat more of it than greens, but honestly I do love greens, too. I've been veg most of my life so I have acquired (or cultivated) a palette for such foods. Anyway - trying to get back to 100% but am having gut symptoms that are very uncomfortable. My instincts tell me it's the fruit. I haven't eaten today. Perhaps a fast is in order?? Thanks for any thoughts!

Rawnora, and I think you too Fresh, say that Doug advocates forcing greens even if we don't like the taste. I've read 811 and have heard a couple of his lectures. I've read a couple of articles he's written. He certainly does advocate greens. But I don't believe I've seen anywhere or heard him say that we absolutely should eat greens even if we don't like the taste.

Rawnora, you said in one of the earlier posts on this thread that you are sure that he'd say force them down even if we didn't like them. Well ... "sure" doesn't always mean a whole lot, in my opinion. I'm curious what he'd say so I'll post the question to him on the board. I'll ask him what he has to say about eating greens even if one doesn't like the taste of any leafy green, no matter how tender and wonderfully sweet it might taste to others.

Anyway, here's a relevant question regarding a bitter taste. This is from the VegSource board. The date of this post is Sep 18 2007. Doug's response follows.
**sometimes my celery is buttery and crisp. perfectly delectible.
**other times it is bitter and undesirable. can anyone explain?

**am i utilizing my greens by chewing them or would it be better for me to blend **most or do both equally?

Doug's response on Sept 19.
**Like any food, celery has the potential to be really tasty or pretty
**darn disappointing. When it is great, enjoy it. When it is not,
**choose something else to eat.

**Nutrients are best accessed through thorough chewing. Chew your
**food well. If you choose to blend, know that some nutrients are
**lost in the process, (especially antioxidants) and some may be
**better accessed because the blending process (mechanical
**digestion) is more thorough than your ability to chew. However,
**without chewing your food, various aspects of digestion do not
**kick in properly, so nutrition is compromised. I consider the entire
**subject to be a wash, one option balancing the other, but in
**different ways.

**Dr D

I've been pretty close to 811 for a short while now and feel stronger than ever. I'm amazed. I suppose the strength comes from eating so many greens and from using my muscles more than I have previously. I can't say for sure, of course, that I wouldn't feel so strong even had I not been eating so much green stuff, but I'm inclined to believe it. Not only do I feel stronger, but I seem to be doing a better job upstairs too!!

I realize that neither of you (Rawnora and Fresh) oppose eating greens. I realize that you're just saying that it's best to follow one's senses. Very sensible! I'm only taking issue with whether Doug advocatese forcing down greens. I'm curious so I'll ask him on VegSource.
-Troy.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

I am agreeing with TroySantos...

I, too, have listened to a large number of DG's lectures and read most of his materials...in fact, my husband got a consult with him, and we're both in contact with him now and then - and the only thing I've ever heard him say about the amount of greens is to eat as much of them *as you care for*.

I'm not as experienced as most of you on this thread - 2-3 yrs of dabbling and 9 months of low fat raw (mostly mono meals) and counting, but I go through cycles of not wanting greens at all for a few weeks, and then wanting lots of them for awhile. I tend to go with the flow and not stress about it too much. When I want them I eat as much as I want. I do not believe I'm eating greens out of food addiction. I enjoy eating the lettuces and celery as is and when I am in the mood for them, can easily sit down and eat a head of plain lettuce or a couple of bunches of celery. I don't even like salad dressings on my greens, I like the taste and crisp texture of the greens by themselves...when they taste good.

Sarah
[goingbananasblog.com]

I would like to contribute to vegsource but my posts are never accepted. I have tried emailing admin but never get a response. Oh well..........

Wallace