Hey everyone,

I believe I am hyperglycemic. I use to almost pass out quite frequently and they stopped for about 4-6 months i believe. Well I actually passed out this past week...and all the symptoms lead to hyperglycemia. The doctors tried to test me for it but since the test requires you not to eat before it, I almost passed out again so they were not able to finish it...so I dont have any dr saying i have it but am almost 99% sure that I have it.

So I was wondering if there was any other raw vegans out there who struggle with this as well and how you handle your diet.

I eat tons of fruit due to it being easier to get all the calories that I need since I play collegiate level sports. I have tried to cut down on the fruits and eat veggies mainly but then I feel sick because i cant get enough calories in (I can only eat so much in one sitting). I tend to eat every 2 to 3 hours.
Also, i always eat fruit for breakfast because it helps with my digestion problems. Well now I am starting to feel really sick afterwards from the high sugar content. Does anyone have suggestions on something that is not heavy on the stomach in the morning instead of fruit (I tried carrot juice but that didnt work)

Everyone on the SAD says you cannot be a raw vegan and be hyperglycemic - I believe otherwise and no way on earth am I going back to the SAD (I felt so bad on it)...so just kind wanted some advise because i know it is possible

Thanks

Both hyperglycemia (too much blood sugar) and hypoglycemia (too little blood sugar) are signs of insulin resistance, the beginnings of diabetes. What does your daily fat intake look like (either quantities, or percentage of calories)? Eating fats can inhibit the effectiveness of insulin. You might take a look at not eating any overt fats (oils, nuts, seeds, avocado, coconuts, etc) for a few weeks and see if during this time your blood sugar stabilizes.

[www.mercola.com]

Definitely cut down the fruit, and fat, as Bryan suggested. This is serious business, you have no time to spare.

You should avoid the high glycemic food, and if you're going to eat them, make sure you eat them along with *lots* of fibre. Also, it may not be in line with raw vegan principles, but you'll probably have to get more of your calories from vegetable protein...

Actually, fruit is the one carbohydrate food that most diabetics can eat because it has so much fiber, that helps with slowing down the absorption of sugar into the blood stream.

Here are some good article explaining the cause of Type-2 Diabetes:

Too Much Fat Causes Diabetes

Type-2 Diabetes – the Expected Adaptation to Overnutrition

McDougall Program Success Story:Obesity, Type-2 Diabetes, Hypertension

Thanks You so much for the advice.
Oh and the articles were really helpful

I am a little confused, though, with the whole fat thing. With all of the reading that I have done - it seems as if the body needs fats. There are good fats (monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats) and bad fats (saturated and trans fats). The bad fats should be eliminated completely and substituted with good fats. It seems to me if I elimintated fats all together then it would lead to other problems even if it does help with diabetes. Also, when I dont eat the fats I tend to always be hungary and not have enough energy in my sports (I am a collegiate athlete). Am I understanding this correctly - just a little confused.

When I passed out: it had been a couple weeks where I ate no nuts or seeds. The only fat I had was a few avocadoes a week and very little hemp oil.

Appreciate the help

Its worthwhile to put your daily menu into a nutritional calculator like fitday, nutritiondata, nutridiary, and Cron-o-Meter. If you do this, you can see if you are eating enough calories to meet your energy needs, and what your percentage of fat intake is. The minimum fat percentage is somewhere between 3% to 5% of your energy intake. You can see check to see if you are getting the minimum even if you don't eat overt fats likes oils, nuts, seeds, avocados, etc.

It is impossible to eat too little fat if you are meeting your energy (or caloric) needs with raw whole foods. It is also impossible to eat too little protein if you are meeting your caloric needs with raw whole foods.

I agree you should eliminate the bad fats. But only the calories need to be replaced, and not necessarily by another fat. You could replace the bad fat calories with fresh sweet fruits.

The other reason using the nutritional calculators are interesting is because you can see what the vitamin, mineral, and fiber intake varies as you vary the levels of fresh fruits, leafy greens, and fat in your diet. The most nutritious meals will be those with the highest nutrient (vitamins, minerals, fiber, phytonutrients) per calorie that you eat. Eating a lot of fat will lower your nutritional density, as fat has twice as many calories per gram as carbohydrates and protein. Also, fatty foods tend to have less water and fiber in them, and fruits tend to be loaded with fiber and water.

I respectfully disagree with a lot of the above advice. (Sorry to add to the confusion)

Veganathlete, if you passed out after a couple of weeks of NO nuts and seeds, then maybe you need the nuts and seeds. Avocados, eaten moderately, do supply healthy FAT, but they are not the concentrated source of some of the essential MINERALS that are supplied by nuts and seeds.

You don't have to eat A LOT of fat. Overeating is never good. Nuts and seeds are PACKED with nutrition, and that's why you don't have to eat very much of them. It's also why they're so good at helping to satisfy hunger.

The Hunzas, Vilcabambans, and Abkhasians are some of the longest living peoples on the planet, healthy and very active into old age, and they all eat a healthy quantity of nuts and seeds, plenty of raw fruit and veggies, and only very minimal quantities of meat and/or dairy. Before the encroachment of western "civilization", diabetes was virtually unknown in those places (from "Healthy at 100", by John Robbins, author of "Diet for a New America".

Just like the Hunzas, Vilcabambans, and Abkhasians, you should be able to eat lots of fruits and veggies in addition to nuts and seeds.

I especially like unhulled (brown) sesame seeds for their intense mineral content, including lots of iron, calcium, and zinc. I usually soak them overnight. Brazil nuts are a good source of selenium.

Being an athlete, you might even try sprouted grains once in a while. Grains are very controversial here, but if you feel you need something more than what you're getting, don't let controversy stop you from giving sprouted grains a try. I think sprouted kamut is good (soak one night, rinse, drain and sprout the next day and night, and eat the third day).

You might also consider the possibility that your fainting spells could be due to anemia or some other mineral deficiency. If you haven't had your blood tested for iron, etc., it might be a good idea.

I agree with Bryan's advice to check the nutrition sites. Look for a reference at the site. If the site's not referenced, don't trust it.

I emailed fitday and asked where they got their information, because I couldn't find a reference on their site. The information on their site didn't jive with referenced nutrition sites. Fitday never emailed me back. That was several months ago, so maybe they've made some changes.

I've emailed nutritiondata.com several times with questions, and they've always emailed me back. I really like that site. Search any food, adjust the serving size at the top of the page for the food you searched, then check all the charts on the page. Especially check the %DV column, because that gives the % of the RDA for each nutrient supplied by the selected serving size. If you change the serving size, you get all new charts.

Hope you're feeling better soon,veganathlete.

(and sorry Bryan and jorgeben for disagreeing)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 07:48AM by suncloud.

Suncloud,

What would you say are the minimum and maximum amounts of fat a person should eat?

Hi Bryan.

I'm going to assume you mean percent (not amount) of fat to calories, since that's usually what I've seen you refer to in your support for 80/10/10.

Actually, I'm still experimenting to see what feels best for me.

And I'm still not really sure that a measurement of percent to calories is a totally legitimate way to measure what's best for everyone.

When and if I do ever feel totally settled into a very distinct pattern, I probably won't care much about percents at all, but I'll care about how I'm feeling and whether I'm getting enough of the minerals that I feel are most important to pay attention to. At least that's the path I'm currently on.

But 80/10/10 as a rule for all of us definitely doesn't seem right to me, because it really does require leaving out nearly all nuts and seeds, and I just don't feel that's healthy, comfortable, or even natural, at least for me, and quite possibly for a lot of others too.

Also, without the nuts and seeds, 80/10/10 seems to require such a huge amount of greens to reach a healthy amount of minerals in the diet. It's more greens than I can handle. I'm just a little person, and so many greens is more than I have room for. Also, this is just a theory of course, but I think that many greens has a drying effect on the body, and might even cause dehydration for some people (like me).

The best way for me to answer your question is to give you the stats for the traditional diets of the Hunzas, Vilcabambans, and Abkhasians who have grown all their own food for centuries and who I personally trust to know a thing or two more than Douglas Graham (no offense intended, just being a little blunt here, sorry).

The reason I say that is simply because so many of these people have lived so much longer than Doug Graham, they have the accumulated wisdom of their elders who are highly respected in their societies, and because they all live so much closer to nature, and in fact depend upon their bond with nature for their own survival.

So here's the stats (Carbohydrates/fats/protein):

Abkhasia: 65%/20%/15%

Vilcabamba: 74%/15%/11%

Hunza: 73%/17%/10%

10% of the Abkhasia diet comes from animal foods. 1% of the Vilcabamban and Hunzan diets come from animal foods. That's probably why in Abkhasia the protein percent is higher and the carbohydrate percent is lower than in the other two communities.

Also, all three populations consume grains. I believe we can improve on that as raw food vegans (at least from a compassionate viewpoint), but not by lowering our fat percent. I think as raw vegans, we can lower our protein percent instead, while still naturally consuming even up to the RDA requirement. The difference could be added to both the carb and fat percents.

It's also important to note that most of the people in these communities eat fewer than 2000 calories/day.

Hope that's Ok as an answer to your question. My point is simply that I personally very firmly believe that nuts and seeds, eaten in MODERATION are NOT BAD for you. They are GOOD for you.

SADS would probably do best to avoid their SAD fats as much as possible.

But in my humble opinion, raw food vegans may be doing themselves a disservice by altogether avoiding nuts and seeds.

We may have to agree to disagree, but maybe we CAN agree that it's good for people on raw food vegan diets to try many different paths before they settle on the one that suits them best.

Bryan, just want to also let you know how much I appreciate everything you do for this forum, and your sincere concern for all of us.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 09:28AM by suncloud.

suncloud,

Going by how you feel is an excellent way to do your diet. And if your diet feels good to you, and you are symptoms free, then there is not need to change anything. But there are a lot of transitioning raw foodists who are not symptom free, and they are looking at how they can be free of their symptoms. Often these symptoms have to do with blood sugar or fat related issues: hypoglycemia, hyperglycemia, candida, adrenal fatigue, staph infections, skin/nail fungus, vaginal infections, etc.

Those societies you mentioned eat 15% to 20% fat. If a new raw foodist is doing that, they have a great raw diet. But most new raw foodists are eating in excess of 60% fat. Surely that can't be a good amount, even for a new raw foodist who isn't experience symptoms at the moment.

If a person is not eating any overt fats, their fat intake is 5%. Graham's plan calls for 10%, which means a person needs some overt fat (nuts, seeds, avocados, etc) to get from 5% to 10%. I personally will eat overt fats, especially in the winter time where there is no abundance of sweet fruits. But even then, I won't eat it every day, but perhaps every other day or less.

So I am in agreement with you. Except I view moderation of nuts and seeds as somewhere between 5% and 15% of the one's caloric intake.

But if there are symptoms present, I also find that taking my intake of overt fats makes my symptoms go away much faster than if they are present. And certainly going with zero overt fats when one has a symptom is not going to be harmful to anyone.

Thank you so much for all the information suncloud and bryan.
i am definatley going to have to check out those nutritional calculators

I have been feeling better the last couple of days (my hands and feet weren't freezing today - I was so excited) ;-) - been getting a lot better food. I just got a fridge in my dorm so I am able to get more nutritional whole foods than what they offer in the cafeteria. Also i've been eating greens now that I have a place to store them I am trying to adjust my diet slowly to see how my body is reacting to everything.

I love this forum so much - everyone is always so helpful - the information I have learned from here has been great. Just thanks once again

Up your greens, and if you can your protien. I use raw hemp protien powder, works great. but for sure ....... eat alot more greens
Shalom

veganathlete, you might look into coconut oil to control hyperglycemic. You can burn the medium chain fatty acids easily like sugar but without the insulin spikes.

Coconut oil is a saturated fat, and consuming it will lead to clogged arteries and heart disease. The body has no use for saturated fats as it can create its own saturated fats from the essential fatty acids.

I finally got to use those nutritional calculators, today, and man they helped so much. Before I was trying to calculate everything by hand and because it took up so much time I just gave up on it. It is so easy with these calculators and they really help me to see when my diet is not nutritionally sound. I really believe this is going to help me adjust my diet so that I am getting all of my nutrients and have a well balanced diet. Thanks so much for the advice ;-)

Veganathlete, you may find that with time your use for nutrient calculators diminishes. I still check them now and then when I make a change but I know what has what for the most part. I started back in the early 90s not with pencil and paper but with the food tables in the back section of the "Laurel's Kitchen" vegetarian cookbook. They were incomplete but they certainly helped a lot. I drew circles around the nutrient powerhouses which of course are mostly greens and focused on the foods that had the high zinc, calcium, and iron contents which can be troublesome and this greatly influenced the way that I eat.

In fact I was so swayed by this early "doctrination" that I still have some trouble shaking it.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The reason I say that is simply because so many of
> these people have lived so much longer than Doug
> Graham, they have the accumulated wisdom of their
> elders who are highly respected in their
> societies, and because they all live so much
> closer to nature, and in fact depend upon their
> bond with nature for their own survival.
>
>

I agree.

Veganathlete, I would also very much consider coarse grains as a way to stabilize blood sugar and provide hours of steady energy, so eating every 2-3 hours may not be a necessity then. Things like rye, spelt, quinoa... these are all technically fruits, as long as they're still whole and contain within them the seed. I'm not going to recommend cooking, as they should ideally be sprouted, but for immediate blood sugar stabilization purposes you may have to cook them, as sprouting will take a few days. Even cooked they're pretty healthy, it's just not ideal.

well i thought about trying grains but i though that most of them have gluten (can't have) and are inflammatory foods (I had an inflammation problem before going raw so I try to avoid all inflammatory foods)...I will definately research it ...I did start eating sweet potatoes which seem to last me longer than other food.

THanks once again for the advice ;-)