I am somewhat familiar with this way of eating from what I have read on this forum, but was not at all interested in trying it because in my opinion it sounded to restrictive (I have only been into raw live food since January 08) However, in my ever quest for for healing I am now seriously considering giving it a shot. I just ordered the book.

I just watched an interview with Dr. Graham on line during the Rawkathon. His interview followed David Wolf's interview. Wow! talk about apples and oranges, night and day, LOL. (Did anybody else see that by the way?) I like and, have learned a lot from him, but tonight he was way out there. At least for me. Listening to Dr. Graham explain the reasoning of eating this way really struck a chord with me. And it made so much since when he explained why a lot of folks fall off the raw wagon or fail to thrive on it.

Anyway...I have followed some of the threads here in the past and from what I can recall one of the issue some folks had with following this program was the volume of food required to be consumed. I could wait until I get the book but hey, being the anxious type I gotta ask....just how much fruit a day are we talking about? I believe I read you need to eat 1 1/2 lbs of greens per day and some had indicated this was an "expensive" diet. True? Is there anybody here that finds this program personally doable? (is doable even a word?

Lastly, he emphasizes organic. I love to eat only organic and try to do so, however if I restrict my diet to only organic then the variety cant get kinda limiting depending on the season. I already go to three different grocery stores to seek out the organic produce. **side note: listening the David Wolfs interview tonight he stated that organic is not even good enough. He's growing some kind of super garden. Wish I could quote him verbatim.**

I would welcome any and all output.

Thanks in advance!
Denise

HI Denise

I have the book, Graham makes SO MUCH sence to me as well!!
I do not follow 811 - I eat more fat and more spices...

I also eat streamed yam and broccoli - which I think is WAY better then eating nuts and dates!! (but i eat these too!!)

Graham eats A LOT of banana's I am talking between 7-12 in ONE sitting..
Bananas are CHEAP - yuo can get a WHOLE box, ORganic even, for about $26.00 Canadian...

Personally, the diet is not doable in a cold climate...Spices help keep me warm
Kimchee, Cayenne, Miso, cinnnamon..

Winter fruit is also not part of the diet - NO APPLES!!

HE says to eat TROPICAL fruit..

You can get mangoes, pineapples, papaya's year round, but they are COLD..

Doug's answer --- move to somewhere HOT...we are not meant to live in Cold climates..
YA, WIsh It was that easy!!

I really LOVE Graham...he makes the most sence of all of "THEM".
Love hsi theories, but not practical right now....I can follow it in the summer, but once the cold hits..
Gimmie steamed veggies and KimChee!!

I had trouble following 811 exactly because i don't want to be taking in 2000 calories a day. I still eat a very low fat diet, eating no more than 1/4 cup of what Graham calls overt fat - nuts, seeds, avocado. But because my caloric intake is lower it is more like 15% fat. I try to eat 1+lb greens a day, but I had to work up to that.

Fruit can be expensive depending where you live and what season it is. Still cheaper than nuts though.

>Winter fruit is also not part of the diet - NO APPLES!!
HE says to eat TROPICAL fruit..
You can get mangoes, pineapples, papaya's year round, but they are COLD..
Doug's answer --- move to somewhere HOT...we are not meant to live in Cold climates..
YA, WIsh It was that easy!!<

How depressing! I live in New England, and I can't just up and move to Costa Rica (not that I'd want to-- I've heard there are too many bugs and the culture is extremely unfriendly toward women). Lots of people live in cold climates! What's up with Graham saying we're not meant to live in cold climates?

And as for eating only tropical fruit, that's a real bummer too. Most of it is imported, expensive, pesticide-laden and sometimes even irradiated. I'd rather go local. No apples? WHY!?

Also, in my opinion, he advocates eating too much food and then outrageous amounts of exercise in order to burn off all the calories. Seems kind of silly to me. But that's just my opinion. The basic 80/10/10 part makes perfect sense to me, though.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

some comments....

>following this program was the volume of food required to be consumed. I could wait until I get the book but hey, being the anxious type I gotta ask....just how much fruit a day are we talking about? I believe I read you need to eat 1 1/2 lbs of greens per day

all you need to do is eat as much fruit as you care for and as much veggies as you care for. you don't need to overeat. you don't need to force yourself. he does speak about expanding the stomach but its not something that i would concern yourself with.


>and some had indicated this was an "expensive" diet. True? Is there anybody here that finds this program personally doable? (is doable even a word?

any diet can be expensive and any diet can be cheap. right now i'm eating tangerines - i bought a case that had 100 or so. so i'm eating those and some greens. that cost $16. i haven't spent any other money on food in days. so is that expensive?


>Lastly, he emphasizes organic. I love to eat only organic and try to do so, however if I restrict my diet to only organic then the variety cant get kinda limiting depending on the season.

he emphasizes it but you can do fine with a mix of both.


>I also eat streamed yam and broccoli - which I think is WAY better then eating nuts and dates!! (but i eat these too!!)

i would agree that overdoing nuts is not good, but nothing wrong with dates.

>Personally, the diet is not doable in a cold climate...Spices help keep me warm
Kimchee, Cayenne, Miso, cinnnamon..

you could wear more clothes. and avoid the irritants.


>Winter fruit is also not part of the diet - NO APPLES!!

it's not that you can't eat them, just not optimal


>Doug's answer --- move to somewhere HOT...we are not meant to live in Cold climates..

no, his answer is to wear more clothes.

>I had trouble following 811 exactly because i don't want to be taking in 2000 calories a day.

you can follow the plan and not worry about calories and it will still work.


>Lots of people live in cold climates! What's up with Graham saying we're not meant to live in cold climates?

we are a tropical species like other primates.

>And as for eating only tropical fruit, that's a real bummer too. Most of it is imported, expensive, pesticide-laden and sometimes even irradiated. I'd rather go local. No apples? WHY!?

how depressing! just get the best quality you can - why prejudge it?

>Also, in my opinion, he advocates eating too much food and then outrageous amounts of exercise in order to burn off all the calories. Seems kind of silly to me.

i don't think that is a valid statement.
you might want to read the book first.

I recently moved to low fat high fruit from high fat low fruit rv, and all my health challenges I was experiencing fatigue etc have all cleared up. It has taken around 4 months and I think my health will improve further still as I'm still not down to 10% fat. I am just so grateful to have discovered 811 because I tried every supplement going and all the superfoods and flax oil and vegan epa/dha and just continued to slowly get worse, and couldn't put my finger on why. Since cutting all supplements out and eating as much fruit and greens as I can my energy has now reached levels I haven't experienced in a long while.

Here is the doug graham interview.

[www.rawkathon.com]

brilliant! way to go ariel

ask david wolfe what you were doing wrong, maybe he
can pull you back to the high tech food revolution
that he is on the cutting edge of!

;-)




Ariel55 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I recently moved to low fat high fruit from high
> fat low fruit rv, and all my health challenges I
> was experiencing fatigue etc have all cleared up.
> It has taken around 4 months and I think my health
> will improve further still as I'm still not down
> to 10% fat. I am just so grateful to have
> discovered 811 because I tried every supplement
> going and all the superfoods and flax oil and
> vegan epa/dha and just continued to slowly get
> worse, and couldn't put my finger on why. Since
> cutting all supplements out and eating as much
> fruit and greens as I can my energy has now
> reached levels I haven't experienced in a long
> while.
>
> Here is the doug graham interview.
>
> [www.rawkathon.com]

>>
>And as for eating only tropical fruit, that's a real bummer too. Most of it is imported, expensive, pesticide-laden and sometimes even irradiated. I'd rather go local. No apples? WHY!?

how depressing! just get the best quality you can - why prejudge it?<<

My point was really that I want to be more self-sufficient and grow most of my food and buy local. Now I'm being told tropical fruit is the way to go. Something about this sounds off to me.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >And as for eating only tropical fruit, that's a
> real bummer too. Most of it is imported,
> expensive, pesticide-laden and sometimes even
> irradiated. I'd rather go local. No apples? WHY!?
>
>
> how depressing! just get the best quality you can
> - why prejudge it?<<
>
> My point was really that I want to be more
> self-sufficient and grow most of my food and buy
> local. Now I'm being told tropical fruit is the
> way to go. Something about this sounds off to me.


All that tropical stuff is ok if you want to let food dictate what you do with your life, you can still thrive on what you can get in the colder climates.

I think the popular mis-conception about eating a lot of fruit is that you have to constantly exercise is a common mistake but then again, so is overeating!

I think it all boils down to following someone elses belief system and not your own, people have to follow their own belief system based on their own living situations, of course what D.Graham says won't resonate with some because he's not everybody and everybody is not him.

Juss ma 2 cents.

RB

Thanks RB/F1,
Your 2 cents makes perfect sense.
I don't agree with a few things Doug Graham teaches, but I don't have to be disagreeable about it. I'm just on a totally different track, taking my own path. :-)

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Ariel55,
I really enjoyed watching Doug Graham's interview on the rawkathon. I tried to register for the whole event, but had a lot of trouble. Would you mind posting some of the other viedos too? I would really appreciate it. I learned so much just from him. Thanks!
Joanna

I live in a cold climate, In Idaho.Im getting 3 cases of oranges next week, all organic, and thats all I will be eating till spring is oranges. I ate a lotta bananas last winter and froze my a** off! So far with the oranges Im nice and warm! I found a place here in town where I can order every 2 weeks ,Organic fruit from California.I just went thru about 5 cases of apples in the last 2 months, and now switching to oranges till about april and I will be both juicing them and eating them. I tried the 80/10/10 last winter and didnt work for me. Im just happy with 100% fruit, no greens or veggirs at all.

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks RB/F1,
> Your 2 cents makes perfect sense.
> I don't agree with a few things Doug Graham
> teaches, but I don't have to be disagreeable about
> it. I'm just on a totally different track, taking
> my own path. :-)

That's what I love about you Kwan...your a classy lady!

RB

>My point was really that I want to be more self-sufficient and grow most of my food and buy local. Now I'm being told tropical fruit is the way to go. Something about this sounds off to me.

nothing particularly wrong with temperate fruits. only that some people report stomach upset with a lot of apples.

below are common temperate fruits i found

apple, pear, cherry, plum, berries, apricot, peach, nectarine

the example often given is that we don't feed animals in zoos local food depending on where the zoo is, we feed them food based on their needs from their original locale.

so if you can accept that we are tropical creatures, tropical fruits would more closely mimic our needs.

many complicating factors as you allude to...

Thanks fresh--

I have to admit the only way I can eat a lot of apples is to raw make apple sauce out of them. And all that crunching drives me insane!

I wonder, though, if we haven't evolved enough over millions of years so that we are better suited to the fruits that grow in our immediate locale rather than in the tropics?

My ancestors are Irish/English/Scotch; I would assume therefore that temperate climate fruits and vegetables would be ideal for me.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Here is the video

[www.rawkathon.com]





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2008 03:09AM by suvine.

Thank you all for your replies, feedback and various opinions.

Mostly I heard that the diet was limiting, boring, required to much calorie consumption, and it makes you cold.

Ariel 55 (nice name by the way, it's my daughters name :-) was able to over come some health challenges such as fatigue, ect. by eating this way. The sole reason I feel drawn to try to eat this way is for health, not simply because I want to follow what someone else tells me or to follow a crowd. I am desperate to be healthy & whole again and I believe live whole food can help me get there, but not if I cant manage to stick to it. I've been trying to stay on live whole foods for just about 10 months now, struggling along the raw path with my yo-yoing back and forth to SAD. And the reason as he explained in that interview makes so much since. Then again I suppose there could be other reasons why one cannot stick to the raw live food diet.

I would love to not have restrictions on what or when I eat, to be able eat all the avocados, nuts, good oil on my salads,green smoothies, or raw food in any combination I want like a lot of folks are able too. But it has not been working for me as I get horrible digestive issues, in addition I keep falling off the raw wagon.

I have been experimenting with the 8/10/10 concept for the past couple of days (although I had a cooked meal of lentils one night and baked potato the next) and all already I actually feel a little bit more energy today and not so much brain fog.

I am very excited about the possibility that I may have stumbled upon a way to stay raw that will actually work for me. I am not a big believer in the one size fits all diets even in the world of raw. In my opinion some of us may not be able to find what works for us on our own by using trial and error, and that is where having the varied ideas and opinions of others is so beneficial in our quest.

Denise

JoanneA

I wonder if this link will work for you to access. [rawkathon.com]

If not let me know which interviews you want I'll try and post them, Not all have them have beendone yet and the ones that have are only up for 24 hours although I think you can access them another way

> I wonder, though, if we haven't evolved enough
> over millions of years so that we are better
> suited to the fruits that grow in our immediate
> locale rather than in the tropics?


50000 years ago humans left africa

>50000 years ago humans left africa<

Yes, we left Africa some 50,000 years ago, but our human ancestry goes back much farther. And I remember reading that it only takes about 8,000 years for adaptation to take place as species evolve, so that we should now easily be able to eat non-tropical fruits as a result of that adapatation.

Our ancestors survived many dire climatic changes by adapting their diet.

A small percentage of the earth is tropical. I think it's a little preposterous to say that we were meant to only live in the equatorial zone, when so many humans migrated-- for some reason or another!-- into the temperate zones of the earth.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Actually a huge portion of the earth is tropical...about a 2-3 thousand mile band on either side of the equator, stretching all the way around the earth. That's rather a large area for a species.

It may or may not be preposterous to suggest that a species has a particular environment in which they can most naturally thrive. That depends on how reasonable the assertion. But surely you won't disagree that specific species have specific areas in which they thrive? A panda doesn't do well outside of the bamboo forests, and a polar bear doesn't thrive outside of the arctic, so it's not unusual to claim that a human might not thrive as optimally outside of the tropics. (Like most apes and monkeys.)

Fortunately, as you mentioned, we are very talented at adapting our environment to suit our needs, which is why we have lasted so long. And if you look at it rationally and openly, you will realize that each and every day, you do everything possible to mimic the tropics for your body. You walk around in a little tropical suit (clothing), sleep in a tropical bed, take tropical showers/baths, etc. If you weren't meant for the tropics, why do you do these things?

Lastly, you are correct in stating that our ancestors survived by dealing with the food available to them, even if it wasn't optimal. The degree to which we may or may not have adapted to this food is a topic that can be discussed all day without coming to a consensus. In the end, each of us has to decide for ourselves how well our food treats us and what we need to do to come closest to the food that best serves our needs. For myself, I have discovered that my body has absolutely not adapted to new foods, and still thrives best after all these eons of genetic adaptation on tropical sweet fruits. I do, however, enjoy temperate fruits in the summertime as well. (Peaches, apricots, cherries, etc.)

If this is not the case for you, or not your experience, I would certainly not argue with you about it. I encourage you to continue your experience in the way that most works for you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2008 04:52PM by doghouse reilly.

Dr. Graham was good with me at first; after chatting on his boards for awhile my view of hiim kind of changed. Don't get me wrong, i don't like judging people, but he just strikes me as kind of a "I know I'm right and you should follow me" kind of guy; Or a know it all, to put in childs terms haha. Anyway, if you want to try the diet, go ahead, I'm on it about 90% now because I started steaming vegetables and eating lentils/beans (no basic processed food though) at night - this is because of the scarcity in organic here like you were asking about. It does get scarce, so right now I order pretty much a bunch of dates online and get some medjools from the store, organic bananas, and usually there's always organic strawberries , got some organic romaine, green leaf, etc. what have you and some mango or orange, with some raw red bell pepper. Those are pretty much all i can get my hands on right now. I feel like I would have more success with all fruit and greens if I could live somewhere in CA where there's a lot of tropical fruit. Really i just have to keep experimenting as well. There are a few good things that have come out of this so far, but remember to always keep in mind your thoughts on it and how you feel on a diet, mentally and physically. Just because of the results you see, don't expect them all to happen and go into a denial mode like some people do on the diet. I kind of did, as well. But again, it could be the lack of good organic fruit! So you know whatever you feel like doing go ahead and give it a go and tell us how it works out

oh and if you don't exercise, i would make sure you do (it's probably stressed in the book because of blood sugar levels - though graham doesn't state that) I got light headed a lot in the beginning, maybe it was the adjustment to all the sugar - could have been getting rid of excess salt. Anyway, get some kind of good exercise program in if you pick up the fruit diet

<<How depressing! I live in New England, and I can't just up and move to Costa Rica (not that I'd want to-- I've heard there are too many bugs and the culture is extremely unfriendly toward women). Lots of people live in cold climates! What's up with Graham saying we're not meant to live in cold climates?

And as for eating only tropical fruit, that's a real bummer too. Most of it is imported, expensive, pesticide-laden and sometimes even irradiated. I'd rather go local. No apples? WHY!? >>

Dr. Graham lives in England for I think at least 6 months in a year.

So, yeah 80/10/10 is doable in cold climate (only if you want to).


>

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >50000 years ago humans left africa<
>
> Yes, we left Africa some 50,000 years ago, but our
> human ancestry goes back much farther. And I
> remember reading that it only takes about 8,000
> years for adaptation to take place as species
> evolve, so that we should now easily be able to
> eat non-tropical fruits as a result of that
> adapatation.
>

i was only responding to your statement about millions of years of adaptation, as related to adaptation to tropic/non tropics. big difference between millions and 50000.

certainly rates of adaptation are debatable for various aspects, but 50000 years is extremely short evolutionarily speaking.

and i'm not implying that we can't eat non tropical fruits.
simply that they may be more suited for us.

specifically with regards to nutrient and caloric density.

hence the relatively harder time that people have staying raw when not eating tropicals.

> Our ancestors survived many dire climatic changes
> by adapting their diet.
>
> A small percentage of the earth is tropical. I
> think it's a little preposterous to say that we
> were meant to only live in the equatorial zone,
> when so many humans migrated-- for some reason or
> another!-- into the temperate zones of the earth.

i'm talking about naked. we modify/create to an extreme degree our environment/clothing and this changes the equation.

rawrnr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Winter fruit is also not part of the diet - NO
> APPLES!!
>


Does his book say no apples? Because in his interview he specifically stated that his little girls favorite meal is apples with almonds. Hum.

Denise

I really like apples. I think its more important to honestly listen to your own body as your raw food coach because everyone is different.

Hey guys,
Thanks everyone, for your input and common sense responses. I have no real quarrel with tropical fruits per se; I'm mainly concerned with the fact that the quality of imported tropicals may be somewhat compromised.

I just re-read that: sounds hilarious: "I have no real quarrel with tropical fruits per se" lol!!

I actually LOVE the taste and satisfaction offered by tropical fruits, and I do gravitate toward them more than any other fruits. Cost and practicality are always high on my mind, however, and also when I hear that we should all really live in tropical climes, my first reaction is to rebel. Can't help it-- I guess I'm just a rebel at heart. :-) Also, my mate is a die-hard northern Yankee, and it would be next to impossible to convince him to pack up and relocate to a more tropical zone.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

If a person can eat sufficient apples to do everything they need to do in their day, then apples are a fine source of nutrition. For myself, if I eat more than 3 apples in a sitting, I get a bellyache. That means eating apples, for me, I would have to eat a lot of small meals, rather than just the 2 meals a day I eat. Its doable, but I prefer eating watermelon, as it does not have the constraint of only 300 calories (3 apples X 90 calories/apple) a meal (because of the bellyache thing I get).

The reason people think the tropics are small is because of map bias. The mecator map, which is in use today, biases towards the temperate zones.



The Peters map gives a different projection:

.

Thanks, Bryan. The picture is getting clearer and clearer. I can't deal with watermelon, for some reason, but I'm crazy about cantalaupe, which I'm pretty sure has a lot of great nutrients in it.

:-)

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Well, I would rather take advice from someone who knows FOR SURE about things. Doug Graham knows for sure.


There is a GRAIN of truth in everything. Just not everything believe in faith alone but piut it into practice.