Okay, so I have been doing a pretty loose form of 80-10-10 (eating a blended head of lettuce/greens and a bunch of bananas for breakfast, about 2lbs of some fruit for lunch, and then a salad of sorts for dinner.) for about a week. I went strictly raw for about 5 days and really felt nothing! I didn't have any difference in the way that I felt overall than I would if I were eating SAD. I just felt the same. Mentally - knowing that I was eating better, I felt great (KWIM?) but that was it. No detox symptoms....nothing. I even went on vacation during that time, and thought that I would have a difficult time. However, it couldn't have been easier.

So, I thought that I was raw for life. Although today was a bit of a struggle because I just drank my smoothie for bfast, and then another at lunch, and I think I missed out on the "eating" part. And, then it happened...along came a fresh out the oven cheese pizza.

Now I wonder if I can get back on track again....my brain is thinking about all of the foods I "missed out on" while we were on vacation this week....even though I KNOW that I am being crazy!! Help!! I know I do sound crazy, I guess the freak in my name is coming to life!! I guess I was just hoping for even one change in my self - maybe it takes longer to notice anything different? Whatever you can offer me at this point would be great, I want to wake up and have only cravings for my truly delicious green smoothie and then feel satisfied afterward.

Veggie,
I want you to know I understand the "out of the oven came a pizza!!"
I really do.
From your post I sense anger over the fact that you might have expected raw foods to make you feel better,and they didnt.
So chuck it.
I will have my pizza.

It is my understanding that feeling different take alot longer than a week.

Try not to beat yourself up.
Brian

My personal opinion is that a desire for health...and healthy eating is not enough. These are just tools. Unless you have NECESSARY life goals that REQUIRE healthy eating......there is never any bedrock foundational motivation....and thus....it is just a matter of time before some 'circumstance' or person puts something in front of a person....and they just take it. If the above were true.....then it would take no more 'discipline' to eat healthy....as it does to use a hammer to drive a nail. It is just the right tool for the job! LOL. And I don't feel I'm missing out.....if I don't use a cement mixer. It may be good for some one ELSE'S goals....but is un-needed and un-desired in my life....if you follow my thinking.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Haha, I was actually thinking of you when I was eating that pizza!!! I was like, "wow, now I have subjected myself to porn...and it isn't even the good kind!!!" I was cracking up at the humor in it, but not so much though that I thought it was funny that I was eating pizza. WTH!?!? PIZZA!?!?!? I haven't wanted that in for ever!!!

But, your words are encouraging, and I appreciate your support very much.
Thank you

A-HA! I have been thinking about that David. I think about that all the time actually. But, what do YOU mean when you say..."Unless you have NECESSARY life goals that REQUIRE healthy eating......there is never any bedrock foundational motivation" What was your goal that *required* you to eat what you do - (primarily fruit, correct?) I know that I will get back on track, because I did taste (no pun intended) the freedom in going 100% raw vegan during those days. I just didn't get anything else - I swear a part of me really was hoping to struggle or feel some kind of detox.

It just felt like another day....what more could someone ask for, right?!

Hey veggiefreak, I agree with David 100%. Of course I know he will respond to your question - I simply want to share I believe that you just know when you reach that "bedrock foundational motivation". For me it encompassed almost losing my life, reaching the depths of emotional despair and experiencing extreme pain in my body. I now have a greater appreciation for truly being healthy and present in my body. As opposed to when I was a vegetarian and thought I was all that. It's so much different now. I do not waver from Raw because I am who I am if this makes any sense. I am what I eat and what I eat is who I am. There is no longer a struggle with myself or within myself. Will this change down the line? It could, but for now I'm acutely aware that my "foundation" and "motivation" to stay raw is my life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2008 04:16AM by rawangel.

For me, from the time I first started raw, till the time it was easeful for me to eat 80/10/10 style, with fat under 10%, was about 3 years. From the time I first started 80/10/10, till I got my fat under 10% was 2 years. So I am not surprised that you didn't get and maintain 80/10/10 your first try

Hi Veggie

don't be sad!!!

I get this all the time, I feel great with my lovely raw food and think about how I could never even want to eat horrible SAD again, then I find myself chomping on some bit of junk that I don't even really like.

We're only at the beginning of this raw journey and we're bound to revert to habits that are DECADES old. Like Bryan said - it would be more surprising if you were to be totally successful on your first try at 80/10/10.

BUT...even though I keep thinking I am "failing", when I think back a few months to when I first heard about raw, going even ONE 100% raw day was a real big deal that I had to psyche myself up for. Now I can do that easily, it's nothing, it's normal! So I AM making progress even though I have slip-ups, and I'm sure you are too.

The day after I have a slip up, I often get cravings for more SAD, so what I try to do is for that day make myself the most delicious raw food I can think of, even if that means going to the shop to get more stuff and spending a bit more money. I really spoil myself with beautiful food and by the time that day is over the cravings are usually gone.

You can do it!

VF:

I had a new niece that was just born. I considered it ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY that she have some one in her life that did not smoke...or drink...and demonstrated happy, healthy eating habits....since I knew her parents would not. After that, I thought about all the other people in the world that needed that example to. My personal goals to teach, to have a retreat, to travel freely....to be able to camp an hike....these things REQUIRED healthy eating in my mind.

-You don't need to exercise 'discipline' or even a real plan to drive a car to work. You do it...even though it's a bit of work and expense......but without much effort.....because it is an ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY tool to arrive at an ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY goal.

-When your motivation and identification of tools is 'bedrock foundational' you do it....and pay it no mind...because it is necessary. If one is constantly stressing or thinking about something....then it has not become part of your motivational foundation yet. When you pay it no 'mind'...ha! ha!....THEN it is part of you.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Well, I don't think you are ready to completely give up on raw foods, or else maybe you wouldn't have bothered coming back to this forum. ;-)

The pizza was just a little stumble on your raw food path. You are still on the path if you choose to continue.

Lots of love to you!

Wendi
XOXO

Keep in mind that your body never gives up to become healthier so eating a single pizza doesn't really change much in the long run imho. You may slip up but the body doesn't really care if you see my point.
I personally agree with David also.

You're going to bounce back and forth between raw and cooked for a long time.

I had that feeling myself .
But what i do is to make sure anything I am having from now on that is cooked,is at least a fresh steamed veggie.
Brian

Quote

Posted by: davidzanemason (IP Logged)
Date: April 06, 2008 06:17AM

-When your motivation and identification of tools is 'bedrock foundational' you do it....and pay it no mind...because it is necessary.
When you pay it no 'mind'...ha! ha!....THEN it is part of you.

"bedrock" is like going on auto pilot where your course destination is a given. I get it. I am adding your post tp my "nugets" file of keepers. Thanks DZM. :=)

Hi VeggieFreak,

I am new to RAW as well. I mostly notice wanting SAD when I am at work and didn't bring anything or not enough fruits/vegs with me!!! I usually just run and grab a salad. There is also a produce stand near where I work (how lucky I am!) and will get some grapefruits, tomatoes, etc. At night, I am usually grating some root vegetables, have raw marinara with spaghetti squash (it has been funny working on this marinara sauce!) or having salad and a few different steamed veggies. The 2 things I am really trying hard (and sometimes, not so hard) to eliminate are wine and cheese. I have cut back all cheese except feta (for some reason it just feels lighter than the rest) and I cut out red wine for the most part, in favor of white (I think this was purely a personal thing - I have a harder time once I start drinking red to stop drinking it. My goal is no more than 2 glasses about 3 days a week. This is really good for me! Maybe not for most people on here. But, I am who I am.

So, good luck to you. I am on the same journey and can really relate. I almost cooked just a tiny, little bit of pasta the other night, but I turned off the stove and grabbed some kale, steamed it very lightly, and went to town chewing! I felt so much better later for doing this!

- Javacado

rawangel Wrote:
> you just know
> when you reach that "bedrock foundational
> motivation". For me it encompassed almost losing
> my life, reaching the depths of emotional despair
> and experiencing extreme pain in my body. I now
> have a greater appreciation for truly being
> healthy and present in my body.

This is SO true what rawangel wrote. This REALLY got me to focus more on my lifestyle - almost dying

> I am what I eat and what I eat is who
> I am.

This is very true in a physical sense. But even THEN I do slip up. It's like smoking - EVERYONE knows it's bad for you but it is ssooooo emotionally satisfying to smokers to smoke.

The key is like I think Phantom said the other day in response to another thread. Don't beat yourself up over the pizza - pat yourself on the back for the banana you ate - even if you ate nothing else but junk all day.


That phrase has been really sticking in my mind lately as I learn to be kind to myself when it comes to diet.

The changes will come.

I noticed that when I try to force myself to find a raw substitute for a DEEP craving it's just better to eat the small ammt. of bad food and then eat healthy the rest of the day, otherwise I just majorly overeat on raw foods trying to find that mental substitute and end up feeling physically even worse than if I'd just eaten the sm. ammt. of "bad" food.

that's been my experience anyway.


Me (30), Joseph (24 mo.) Jeremiah (4 mo.)

We are enjoying spring and being outside!!!

angie1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
But even THEN I do slip up. It's like smoking - EVERYONE
> knows it's bad for you but it is ssooooo
> emotionally satisfying to smokers to smoke.
>
> >
> That phrase has been really sticking in my mind
> lately as I learn to be kind to myself when it
> comes to diet.

Hey there Angie, your post has really got me thinking and feeling. You hit the nail on the head as emotions and associations are usually the driving force with food cravings. The favorite dish our grandmother used to make for us generally when we have it now makes us feel warm, fuzzy and loved. The cupcakes our friends shared with us when we were kids, perhaps made us feel a part of the crew and like we belonged. In the old SAD days we may have associated cupcakes as social treats when we feel isolated or alone - thus the tendency to binge for example. When we need to uplift ourselves sometimes we reach for those comfort foods as a way to feel better. Gets dangerous of course when it becomes a pattern, but it's not necessarily a "bad" thing. Everything has a purpose.

Most of us understand this to be true, but I wonder if there are any other craving drivers? Like maybe having built up toxins in the physical body. For example, during my last 40 day juice cleansing fast in Dec/Jan, I started craving cheeseburgers! I haven't had one of those things for many years, like over 20. I don't like them, I don't eat meat and couldn't figure out why I wanted to make a made dash into McDonald's which usually creates a gag response in me. I mean I seriously wanted a cheeseburger for 2 days straight, 24 hours, during my fast. So much so that I didn't leave the house as I didn't trust myself. It was intense. What I discovered was I was releasing the toxic crap from the cheeseburgers I used to eat when I was kid. As the toxins were leaving my body, I was experiencing them as a craving to eat the food. whether it was all physical or including some emotional attachments I don't know. But I wonder if cravings are also a part of the body's detoxification process while eating living, pure, raw foodsfoods. When the craving comes out of the blue when we've been moderately to high raw, perhaps we should just ride it out.

From my personal experience with this and where I am now, I do not have many cravings for cooked food. I can honestly say I don't have any at all. But this could change, you never know and I will remain flexible. I'm 100% raw now. The more I lean towards being (high) raw, the more I appreciate how I'm feeling. And coupled with this I know what I'm doing for my body. I also believe the cleansing process of both eliminating toxic thoughts & attachments as well as the toxins from my body that may trigger cravings are now minimal to non-existent. This definately helps.

And then add in what David talked about with regard to having a great goal or motivation for living a healthy life. This is really the key and I will go back to this too -- I really believe it. But that's just me and it's what works for me. Not saying it will work for everybody.

Absolutely as you mentioned Angie (or Phantom?) "change will come". And we're all different and will experience this differently.

Veggiefreak, cravings and detours are all a part of the process. So hang in there. You still rawk!

Lots of good advice. IMO part of a journey like this is how you frame yourself: Are you a raw eater who occasionally slips and eats SAD, or are you a SAD eater who occasionally manages to eat raw?

Do you blog? Add your blog to the thread on blogging: [www.rawfoodsupport.com]!!

I personally don't think it should take a long time. For me it was within a couple days, I felt like a million bucks... but I didn't eat alot of fruit, either. When I started raw I ate cooked coarse barley for breakfast mixed with raw nuts, beans, and seaweed. Then I ate big salads with dark leafy greens. I also ate raw cabbage & broccoli mixed with cooked kamut pastas. For snacks I ate raw bell peppers, cucumbers, and zucchini... and occasional fruit if I happened to crave it.

I also didn't freak out about occasional cooked cravings - I just ate whatever I craved and often found that the anticipated pleasure didn't live up to my expectations. The cravings really subsided over time, too. Given how much healthier my eating had become, I certainly wasn't going to stress about cravings.

The discussion about food/emotions/feelings really hits home for me. I have a (now) four year old who was pretty reserved and not overly outgoing as a toddler. When he was two-three, we would go to birthday parties and he would be the ONLY one not eating the crap they were serving. It got to the point where I felt like it was damaging to him socially and eventually I allowed him to partake in whatever was going at the time.

Now, since I have made more holistic friends (who even still serve crap at b-day parties) I don't have to worry about it as often. However, I do feel that the "damage" has definitely been done...he begs me for junk food all the time I know that eventually,it will all turn around, but I do know exactly what you were saying Rawangel about fitting in - the feelings of accpetance and love through food. It is a horrible trap that society places each one of us in at an early age, and we are actually so fortunate to be bold and brave enough to step outside the mainstream world.

Just one other example was how people were obsessed with feeding my first son, because I was so anti-crap when he was born. I breastfed exclusively until he was almost a year old, and was very strict about what was introduced into his diet. My own mother literally cried to me one night about how he was missing the opportunity to feel love from her because she was not allowed to give him a cookie. I will never forget it, and immediately realized my own shortcomings with food were not just something I created - it was something I was taught. FOOD=LOVE!! It was a sad realization for sure, and I can remember just looking at my mom horrified at her seriousness. Eating issues are prevalent everywhere and it is funny how people are so quick to judge others who have supposed "eating disorers." Anyway,sorry for the tangent.

The support and information provided has been incredible. Today was a bit up and down. Tomorrow will be better. I am thinking about what DZM said about bedrock and it is definitely making sense. Thanks!