Are the kinds sold at Whole Foods "raw" ? Or anything I need to look for on the bottle? I don't want to order it online.

You should look for agave that is labelled "raw". It's been suggested that agave labelled "raw" may still not be raw, but I don't know what to believe. I still use it occasionally.

I buy Madhava brand raw agave nectar, which you can get at most Whole Foods...as least the ones around here. It says "specially produced at temps below 115 f." right on the bottle, which I choose to believe is true. Now whether or not it actually is, couldn't say. Don't have the right lab equipment on hand to test that one out myself...as if I would even know how. (-:

~lanie

I wonder if the skeptics have a reason to be skeptical and untrusting? If so, can you tell us why.

This page: [purelyraw.com] argues that if were truly raw agave wouldn't even be sweet. I find this hard to believe because it's made primarily of sugar, so I can't imagine this "raw" state in which it would not be sweet. Also, I know that honey doesn't have to be cooked to be sweet.

I just saw my first agave plant. in order to get the necter out of the plant you have to cook it down. I understand it is kind of like the process one uses to get maple syrup. I would imagine you would have to cook for a long time if the temp was low.

I'm not entirely convinced. Maple sap is almost entirely water, and barely sweet when it comes out of the tree. Agave nectar (as sold) has about the same thickness as honey, but honey has not been concentrated by the bees, has it? Is agave nectar naturally a lot more watery than other nectars, or am I underestimated the work accomplished by bees?

Opinion: Don't get hung up on the word 'raw'. If it don't grow....I wouldn't go. However, if it helps you to reach YOUR goals, it's all good.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

David, I don't disagree in general with that thought, but if agave nectar is truly unadulterated then the only reason it wouldn't grow is that it is not a seed. That doesn't seem like enough reason to exclude it.

I'm definitely not hung up on raw; I'd rather have fresh fruit instead of agave. I'm just wondering why the skepticism, if it was an inside thing or just the general knowledge that heat of some sort "has" to be used to extract the liquid.

I heard that they tend to "cut" the agave with corn syrup for a cheaper product. I don't use it personally, I prefer dates

I would think that they would have to list that in the ingredients, esp. due to allergies.

I've heard that agave can be made thicker via vacuum dehydration at low temperatures.

I think that one of the reasons people think the darker agave is not raw is that it has a brownish tinge. But I know for a fact my banana syrup I make at home also has this brownish tinge and it's not even heat treated at all, no dehydrator, nothing.

Yes, the agave I sell is produced by low temperature vacuum dehydration. I don't really understand how it works, but my supplier tells me it is raw...

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

Rob,

do you know what temperature it's produced at?

Also, have you been to the facility and checked out the process?

Just asking as I'd love to know once and for all whether a truly raw agave nectar is in existence.

Some people say that in order to make the syrup sweet it needs to be heated, which just doesn't gel with my knowledge of biochemistry. I'd love someone to go and document the process from the tapping of the agave to the end product in the bottle, photograph it and check temperatures at each stage.

It kills me that no one can demonstrate for sure either way, but there are people on both sides of the camp that are sure they are right.

BTW, I love agave nectar!

I only found this at Whole Foods:
[www.wholesomesweeteners.com]

Can't be raw.

Found this on their website. This is supposedly raw. Is it?
[www.wholesomesweeteners.com]

Quote

Specially produced at temperatures below 118° F to minimize enzymatic breakdown and deliver a full, natural flavor, Organic Raw Blue Agave Nectar is perfect for everyone, including raw-food enthusiasts! This amber nectar has a distinct and delicious flavor that genuinely enhances foods' natural sweetness. It is 25% sweeter than sugar, so less is needed. It is certified Organic and GMO-Free, and appropriate for vegan and plant-based diets. It is stable, non-crystallizing and quick dissolving.

Check out this article written by the owner of this forum, John Kohler called The Truth about Agave Syrup:Not as Healthy as You May Think.

I don't know about Kohler's conclusions. He mentioned meeting a producer who heated the nectar to 140-160 degrees Fahrenheit, but did not once say why he believed agave nectar to be "boiled down" like maple syrup must be. That would require much higher temperatures than 140 to 160 degrees. He provides citations for others of his claims, but the central question is never addressed, which is "What actually goes into the processing of the agave nectar which is sold as raw?". If honey can be sold truly raw, why would agave require extra processing? I suspect that the "boiling down" step is a myth, though I would welcome being corrected if anyone has tangible information.

As far as the list of reasons why fructose is unhealthy, this confuses me more, because most of the fruits which constitute the bulk of my caloric intake are fructose-dominant. If I accept the argument that fructose should not be consumed in excess, then I would need to rethink a great deal of how I'm eating.

I agree that agave nectar is not a whole food, and thus should be consumed moderately if at all, but I haven't yet seen a convincing source argue that it is either not-raw, or not-healthy. I consume it rarely and in small amounts, and would be willing to drop it if I believed that it was doing me harm, but most of its critics do not seem to have more than suspicions against it.

Thank you for the link Bryan, much appreciated.

I am though in agreeance with Frances on this one, if I might note my musings by the numberings the author has given.

1. Low temp processing would mean that the agave was better nutritionally than maple syrup as it wouldn't be 'boiled' down. At low temp processing it would retain many of the nutrients originally found in the uncondensed sap, probably most.

2. Enzyme activity does not necessarily have to be stopped, once the sugars are concentrated, this acts as a kind of preservative. It's most likely the activity of microbial contaminants that are causing the agave to ferment into tequila, or simply spoiling the sap. This is easily proven by cold filter sterilising the sap and leaving it in a sterile environment to see what happens. Alcohol (all that I know of anyway) is brought about by the fermentation of base sugars into ethanol by microbes, NOT by the action of enzymes in the sap itself.

3. Yes, some manufacturers may 'water' down their agave with corn syrup, this doesn't mean that agave is bad, it means we need to be vigilant about what is in our agave and bring to bear consumer pressure on these companies to stop this practice.

4. This is mainly an overconsumpotion issue, as with any foods, good or bad, we should not overconsume them as yes, this will be detrimental to our health. Sugar is sugar, overconsuming it will be bad for us. Moderation is best.

5.Hmm.. not sure about this one. Yes, sugar can be addictive, but again, everything in moderation, and the development of good eating habits is essential to life and health. So for me, avoiding something because it contains a concentrated amount of sugar is not as ideal as learning to exercise portion control and having a healthy eating attitude.

Yes, fresh fruits and veg are best, but saying we shouldn't eat something at all because large amounts of it are not good for our health (when we already eat it in other things) just doesn't seem like something I'd incorporate into my lifestyle.

I enjoy food, sweet, savoury. etc. Small amounts of agave are not going to kill me, or I believe, significantly adversley affect me. However, the enjoyment of something with agave in it will definitely lead to some positive physiological effects, same as positive thinking, sex, being with friends etc.

Wow, that was a long boring post, sorry all!

Just wanted to add that I'd be assuming the author avoided honey as well, as many of the arguments also apply to this sweetener.

It's just that bees do the dehydrating of the nectar instead of humans, they constantly disgorge it as a big globule on their tongues and let the sun and wind do the trick, yum... bee spit!

frances Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If honey can
> be sold truly raw, why would agave require extra
> processing? I suspect that the "boiling down" step
> is a myth, though I would welcome being corrected
> if anyone has tangible information.

Because, as far as I am aware, when agave comes out of the plant, it is quite a runny liquid, so needs some kind of processing to thicken it up (concentrate it). But there is no reason that this cannot be done at a low temperature. Think dehydrator temperatures, to slowly concentrate the liquid, in the same way that you can dehydrate solids.


klomasius Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> do you know what temperature it's produced at?

No, but as I understand, a vacuum process would be at very low temperatures.

> Also, have you been to the facility and checked out the process?

No, I'm in the UK and it is produced in Mexico.

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]