are there any long term fruitarians here? I've been reading the beyondveg website and am concerned with effects the fruit diet may have long term. I think it's wierd that the fruitarian diet is so old, yet there are so little people on it. Right now I'm following the 811rv plan, but hey, I'm open to debate and I wanted to read about people who oppose fruitarianism. This website sure does that. Wow. It's almost annoying how much they express a form of disgust towards it. A lot of the claims on that website aren't fantastic, but the 811rv side is as questionable.

A few things that are questionable about 811:

Apes and monkeys spend a lot of their day eating and chewing.

They also eat leaves - I don't think lettuce grows in the tropical rainforest. This is confusing. Though I don't know their full diet - do they eat un-sweet fruit?

How similar are we really to apes and monkeys - we aren't completely structured like them and our first descendents are said to be over 5 million years ago. This must change the diet some how as even chimpanzees and their relatives have different diets.

Why is it that some fruitarians experience effects of diabetes - like fatigue, excessive urination, and high-lows (blood sugar) in mood : is it only the ones that eat fat in the wrong manner?


Are wild fruit better then cultivated fruit because of the sugar levels? Is it bad that fruit is eaten in excess with such high levels of sugar?


Why is it that fruit is said to be the perfect food, when it only provides certain minerals and vitamins - not zinc or calcium


Like I said, there are no short term problems right now, other then the comming of fall and the inability to get a wide range of fruit. I'm unsure as to what to do. I don't want to put my future at risk by abandoning this diet, or adopting it. Truly I don't and I don't think anyone "knows" but any thoughts about this would be great.

Has anyone done the thrive diet? It's sparked some curiosity in me recently...

I feel like everyone finds their own way of eating. I wish some comments will help me approach an idea I will settle on.

I've been a 'fruitarian' for about 3 years or so....and high fruit for about 6 or 7 years before that. I don't think one CHOOSES to eat more fruit.....you ACCEPT that as being the only diet that YOU feel right with. With THAT kind of motivation and direction, one moves into it naturally and with little need for discipline.

-It's true that a mostly or all fruit diet is VERY cleansing and will accelerate detox. I DON'T recommend some one switch to this style of eating quickly......especially if they are not emotionally and internally very healthy.

-Everyone is different. Some people have NO pre-existing conditions and are clean internally & emotionally.....and an increase in fruit suits them well. Others change too quickly...and are not clean....and they struggle....and experience nutrient deficiencies because they were not absorbing nutrition well enough before making the switch. Then they blame problems on fruit! Ha! ha! Amazing.

-I have not noticed any difference in 'organic'.....wild....or conventional store-bought produce in my levels of over-all health (taste is another matter!) LOL.

-There IS calcium in many fruits (50 mg in a medium canteloupe, while a large apple contains 13 mg). You can look up values here:

[www.nal.usda.gov]

Canteloupe contains .99 mg zinc in a medium melon. I think you will find that even a basic variety of fresh fruit contains excellent usable protein, vitamins and minerals that you need. Add a little fresh picked fruit or home grown items to the mix....and you are getting b-12 from the soil.

-I just had my bloodwork done...and aside from a slight below average in Vitamins A & D (I'm spending too much time in front of the computer - ha! hA!), my b-12, fats, proteins and nutrient levels were very good.

-For beginners that are transitioning, I recommend a wider variety of fresh fruits and vegetables....focusing on greens and home-grown sprouts.

-Just my experiences.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Thankyou for your response I definitely don't want to give up on the diet. I have no problem accepting fruit --i looove it. It's confusing because I hear these amazing stories from people like you, and then some stories from people who just got no results and totally bash the idea. I feel like I did transition at a right time, and I've been over all pretty happy with everything that's come out of it. The only thing I would say gets to me is that I have to eat so much at one time. I kind of miss the social experience of going out and just eating a small portioned meal. I am also stunted about nutrition still, as many people experience different results.

It's so hard to think about; but thankyou for your share of experience, it's truly helpful.

iLIVE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How similar are we really to apes and monkeys - we
> aren't completely structured like them and our
> first descendents are said to be over 5 million
> years ago. This must change the diet some how as
> even chimpanzees and their relatives have
> different diets.

This illustrations shows the teeth and digestive systems of four groups of monkeys. Leaf eaters, fruit eaters, gum eaters and insect eaters . . . which group most resembles humans? The short simple gut of the insect eaters, the enlarged large intestine of the leaf eaters or the long small intestine of the fruit eating monkeys?

[www.google.com]

> Are wild fruit better then cultivated fruit
> because of the sugar levels? Is it bad that fruit
> is eaten in excess with such high levels of
> sugar?

I've found two wild fruits in nutritional databases, when I compared them to their conventional counterparts, the amount of sugar in wild fruits was 2/3 the amount of conventional fruits.

> Why is it that fruit is said to be the perfect
> food, when it only provides certain minerals and
> vitamins - not zinc or calcium

I bet you could get 300mg a day of calcium on fruit alone even though it has low calcium content. It does add up. 300mg is what the Japanese women eat, and they have the lowest death-by-bone-breakage rates in the world. But why depend on fruit alone? The definition of fruitarian is someone who eats a lot of fruit, not all fruit, so there is plenty of room for eating greens and seeds.

Some fruit do have zinc, zinc content of some fruits as a percent of the daily requirement:
1 avocado 11%
1 cup blackberries 9%
1 medjool date 7%



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2008 03:20PM by Lillianswan.

for conventional fruit, which two were compared? I'm confused at the fact that if it had less sugar, wouldn't you have to eat more of it anyway to get the calories? Or was it higher in fiber/protein

the human/monkey thing could be a very in depth discussion - beyond just grouping into 3 categories of intestines.

Blackberries and blueberries, it was the only data I found after extensive searching. I'd love to see any other data comparing wild v. conventional if anyone has any.

Old post with that data:
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

I did fruit only for 3 years. I was fine.

Dabbled in choco maca oily yukky raw food and now interesting in natural hygeine

Why did you stop the fruit diet?

Ha,ha,ha...beyond veg, yeah, that was the first article on Fruitarianism that I read when I first started and it broke my heart but I carried on anyway.....

I say that if the Fruitarian lifestyle really resonates with you and you really feel drawn to do it, then quit reading negative websites and trying to find excuses for NOT to do it....and go ahead and do it!

Everybody will get different results based on their past history and that's why some people get different reactions or seem to be more successful.

One thing I will say is that regardless of what raw lifestyle you do your going to have to get off of cooked foods and give your body the chance to heal/cleanse and that alone will bring much turmoil and confusion but that's not the Fruitarian diet, that's just your body cleansing.

There's a lot of longterm Fruitarians but many don't want all the abuse that comes with posting on raw food forums, so generally the only people you'll hear from are the ones that quit because it was too hard/uncomfortable, so be very careful about asking for input.

I say go for it, if it's something you want to do!

Here's my story if your interested.
[fruitarianfitness.workspaceweb.com]

Hope that helped.

F1





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2008 08:52PM by richard blackman.

That's a really great story. It's empowering, to say the least. I like that picture, too, it makes me love fruit more. It's wierd. I feel torn - that in I love the background of cooking and flavor combining but I love the simplicity of eating tons of delicious fruit. I feel like state of mind is a big part of diet as well. I'm going to continue with fruit, as much as I can, but winter and fall are near so I just wonder if I can get enough good things. The US is threatening with irridation (sp, sorry forgot the word) also and that will pose a huge threat on organic food and quality.

As of now, my comfort zone is almost lost, and I want to find it.

iLIVE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a really great story. It's empowering, to
> say the least. I like that picture, too, it makes
> me love fruit more. It's wierd. I feel torn -
> that in I love the background of cooking and
> flavor combining but I love the simplicity of
> eating tons of delicious fruit. I feel like state
> of mind is a big part of diet as well. I'm going
> to continue with fruit, as much as I can, but
> winter and fall are near so I just wonder if I can
> get enough good things. The US is threatening
> with irridation (sp, sorry forgot the word) also
> and that will pose a huge threat on organic food
> and quality.
>
> As of now, my comfort zone is almost lost, and I
> want to find it.

Yes...don't forget that you can always have both ain't nothing wrong with that.....it's early days for you yet and your in transition from emotional attachment to cooked foods to the freedom of raw foods!....it's a tough place to be and your mind maybe wanting to back out of the whole thing all together but trust me your body/intuition will be drawing you back to raw foods.

Don't let the government be another excuse to stop you from moving forward, this irradiation stuff has been going on for years, nothing is perfect or pure in this world so don't think your missing out on anything unless your growing your own stuff!

Be good

F1





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2008 01:30AM by richard blackman.

Haha, yeah, you are proof that worrying so much is a thing to stop doing. Thanks buddyy

Great thread,

I sometimes feel nervous about posting what I want too on some topics partlicularly my support of fruitarianism, or low fat raw vegan as the way too go.

I really admire those that are following this and have been succesful with it and have spoken out because I feel mislead in the past too. There is so much contradictory info and most of it is negative against a natural raw food vegan diet ie fruit and greens, or fruitarian one. I feel now it is because there is big business in the raw food superfood/cacao supplement business. I've also have observed attacks on one person who follows this, and including being banned from a certain forum, the bias is so against it,and even insinuating that people who have been successful are not telling the truth.

I don't really think of the fruitarian diet as strictly
one of just fruit. (Just as being "Raw" doesn't always
necessarily mean being strictly 100% "raw."

I think it means eating mostly fruits, supplemented by
Vegetables (of which many are actually fruits: tomatoes,
avocadoes, zucchini,cucumbers, bell peppers) and nuts.
I also think of this diet as one that to really thrive on
it you need to properly combine the fruit. I can't help
but believe that most people that supposedly try the
fruit-based diet ignore food-combining (even that has
been a hotly-debated topic on this board over the years)
and who think food-combining isn't essential.

And, no doubt (from above), emotional attachments to
cooked foods (ala a basic resistance to happiness in general)
is not something that goes well with a raw/fruit-based diet.
Unfortunately, it's not those attachments (and the reasons for
them) that typically get the blame when people fail at something;
but rather something external,like food.

To truly succeed at this diet, long-term, you will likely
need to be very introspective; to effectively deal with
any (psychological) resistance to healthier living.

Steve
[www.meetup.com]
[www.rawgosia.com]

Actually, I've read 80/10/10 and I've been following it, but it's just not coming together. I think people assume after reading it that it must work for everyone because dr. graham stresses that through out the book and blames people for not doing it right. It must be them, not him. Well, I hate to be the one to say this, but I don't think it's me. And truly, I want to eat only fruit and greens, but the long term observations are never quite sound. It's really not that emotional, more technical and scientifical for me, and it's hard to find information on long term fruitarians. There are two sides to every story. I do have hope, still, for this diet and it working for me.

iLIVE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, I've read 80/10/10 and I've been
> following it, but it's just not coming together.
> I think people assume after reading it that it
> must work for everyone because dr. graham stresses
> that through out the book and blames people for
> not doing it right. It must be them, not him.
> Well, I hate to be the one to say this, but I
> don't think it's me. And truly, I want to eat
> only fruit and greens, but the long term
> observations are never quite sound. It's really
> not that emotional, more technical and
> scientifical for me, and it's hard to find
> information on long term fruitarians. There are
> two sides to every story. I do have hope, still,
> for this diet and it working for me.

If you want to wait for scientific/long term observations of Fruitarians then I'd quit now!

Here's an important piece of advice....You have to be your own example of a long term healthy Fruitarian and that comes with time/change and experience, you don't just go Fruitarian and successfully live happilly ever after, as you go your gonna have doubts, your gonna go through changes of opinions and your ALWAYS gonna have people or examples of people that say the Fruitarian lifestyle cannot possibly work....you have to make the Fruitarian lifestyle personal to you, people that write books on it are not you and cannot possibly know your nutritional needs and that's where many people go wrong, they listen to perfect strangers and that's why your ALWAYS going to have more people lining up to trash the Fruitarian lifestyle!...As I said in another post somewhere this lifestyle suits people that get out and do it and tweak as they go along than it does the people that want to read and cover their bases before they start.

RB

Excellent post Richard!

-I AM one...and know many....who have eaten mostly or all fruit for many years. The have been VERY happy and successful.....if they slowly evolved into it. Talk to the many long-term raw food folks out there (5, 10, 20+_ years). Talk to the all-fruit guys out there that have been doing it for years. Are they failures? The successes are out there for you to find it. I'm here to answer questions and provide a bit of my experiences. Although rare, if you are looking for dietary failures in the fruit arena or anywhere else...you will probably find them. Hang out with them and talk to them if you DON'T feel the need to pursue eating fruit.....if that makes a person feel better about their decisions at the expense of others. Its not very dignified! ha! ha! On the other hand, I wonder why people that get very sick from eating meat and dairy never regard that THEIR diet is a 'failure'. LOL. I don't see people expressing too much panic or worry about the alternative 'failure' of the 'SAD diet!' (chuckle).

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Just to add a bit - I think the fruitarian diet/lifestyle is one of more environmental consciousness - only take from plants that aren't killed by the harvesting, so some non-sweet fruits are fine, as are some vegetables if the plant is not killed, as are nuts and seeds.

what's the point of that though, really? many edible plants die at the end of the season after all.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just to add a bit - I think the fruitarian
> diet/lifestyle is one of more environmental
> consciousness - only take from plants that aren't
> killed by the harvesting, so some non-sweet fruits
> are fine, as are some vegetables if the plant is
> not killed, as are nuts and seeds.

In my opinion "environmental consciousness" is man made...in nature it's all about survival, fruits grow from plants and that's all their is to it...nature doesn't care for "environmental consciousness" animals in the wild murder each other for food everyday, ain't nothing environmental conscious" about that....I'm not saying there's anything wrong with "environmental consciousness" far from it, I'm saying it's man made and you can make the Fruitarian lifestyle to mean anything you want it to because it's personal to you,that's just my opinion.

RB

davidzanemason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excellent post Richard!
>
> -I AM one...and know many....who have eaten mostly
> or all fruit for many years. The have been VERY
> happy and successful.....if they slowly evolved
> into it. Talk to the many long-term raw food folks
> out there (5, 10, 20+_ years). Talk to the
> all-fruit guys out there that have been doing it
> for years. Are they failures? The successes are
> out there for you to find it. I'm here to answer
> questions and provide a bit of my experiences.
> Although rare, if you are looking for dietary
> failures in the fruit arena or anywhere else...you
> will probably find them. Hang out with them and
> talk to them if you DON'T feel the need to pursue
> eating fruit.....if that makes a person feel
> better about their decisions at the expense of
> others. Its not very dignified! ha! ha! On the
> other hand, I wonder why people that get very sick
> from eating meat and dairy never regard that THEIR
> diet is a 'failure'. LOL. I don't see people
> expressing too much panic or worry about the
> alternative 'failure' of the 'SAD diet!'
> (chuckle).
>
> -David Z. Mason

Hey Wassup bay bee!!!!

RB

richard blackman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> In my opinion "environmental consciousness" is man
> made...in nature it's all about survival, fruits
> grow from plants and that's all their is to
> it...nature doesn't care for "environmental
> consciousness" animals in the wild murder each
> other for food everyday, ain't nothing
> environmental conscious" about that....
------------------------------------------------------
Actually, to keep a balance between predator and prey is environmentally sound.

I'm just saying, if my hair starts to thin, I'll be pretty pissed.

if you are that concerned try a nutrition tracker like fitday.com to make sure that you're getting everything you need. you'll at least see any deficiencies.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> richard blackman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > In my opinion "environmental consciousness" is
> man
> > made...in nature it's all about survival,
> fruits
> > grow from plants and that's all their is to
> > it...nature doesn't care for "environmental
> > consciousness" animals in the wild murder each
> > other for food everyday, ain't nothing
> > environmental conscious" about that....
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----
> Actually, to keep a balance between predator and
> prey is environmentally sound.


I agree....death is a natural process, sometimes the way it comes isn't but it is a natural process none the less.

RB

Has anyone had experience with diabetes and high fruit? I'm diabetic and was diet controlled normal blood A1C for 5 years. It's raised some with the addition of cortisone added daily for the last 3 years (ugh).

Anyway....I'm a raw newbie. I am drawn to mainly fruit. It's just what I want. David you said you don't reccommend it for newbies, but I feel it's what my body wants.

What I cannot find is any medical evidence that shows high fruit is bad for diabetes (I'm type 2). After all I was high snickers for MANY years.

I'll just have to see how my A1C's come back for the next 6 months.


WendySmiling in Oklahoma
www.16weeks2health.blogspot.com
12/17/10.......240/155/125

iLIVE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm just saying, if my hair starts to thin, I'll
> be pretty pissed.


That might happen temporarily IF you change your diet too fast, it has nothing to do with raw food in particular, but many people who change their diets too fast experience this, and it could be changing it to any diet, South Beach Diet, Grapefruit Diet, Raw Food Diet - any diet - if it used as a crash diet for rapid weight loss. The hair is not vital for our body's survival and so the body shuts off the hair growth while it is in starvation mode. This is posted about a lot on message boards and the hair always grows back.

Lillianswan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That might happen temporarily IF you change your
> diet too fast, it has nothing to do with raw food
> in particular, but many people who change their
> diets too fast experience this, and it could be
> changing it to any diet, South Beach Diet,
> Grapefruit Diet, Raw Food Diet - any diet - if it
> used as a crash diet for rapid weight loss. The
> hair is not vital for our body's survival and so
> the body shuts off the hair growth while it is in
> starvation mode. This is posted about a lot on
> message boards and the hair always grows back.

Actually I brought it up because I was on vegsource and someone was posting in the 801010 area and he was my age and said that he was losing hair in the chunks still after four months. I just think it's not safe for me (i'm 17) because I feel like without a good variety of fruit and greens I would need some supplementation, and it being fall and approaching winter, I would rather do all fruit and greens during the summer and spring months. Or when I'm living on the west coast. I'm sure I would experience a difference - and there are people who's hair thins because they don't have enough protein and fat, not just from detox. And there are people who do get hair back, but hey, not everyone does, and I've got a while to figure that out, but while I'm still growing, I just want to make sure I've got enough food for my age.

(it's hard to eat that much haha)

Hair loss can show up months after the diet was changed, actually I should save this and post this horror story on Holloween but you can read it now :-)

Fat Hair or Tight Jeans Crash Dieting & Telogen Effluvium
[www.hairboutique.com]
"It is a proven scientific fact that a diet that weighs in at less than 1,200 calories a day can trigger sudden hair loss known as "Telogen effluvium".

Note: Telogen effluvium (TE) is not the same as Anagen effluvium (AE) with is sudden hair loss from chemotherapy or radiation treatments.

The body will often react to the physical stress of severely reduced calories or necessary nutrients by falling out in clumps. Diets that are especially low in protein are most suspect. . . .

When the body is deprived of sufficient protein, through dieting or other abnormal food consumption, it will become malnourished. The human body is an amazing machine. When threat of survival is present, the body will shut down all production of hair. It does this as a means to devote all of its energies towards conserving vital body organs

Massive hair shedding may not happen immediately after a new fast or similar crash diet is started. In some cases there is a two to three month delay between the actual start of the diet and the actual beginning of hair loss.

Sometimes a person will have stopped crash dieting only to experience the sudden hair loss months later. This can cause confusion regarding the cause of the "sudden" hair loss.

The reality of the situation is that if you crash diet for two months and ultimately experience Telogen effluvium hair loss, your hair may not stop falling out until several weeks after you discontinue the dieting. The re-growth cycle for hair lost to TE can last anywhere from 6 to 12 months after the Telogen effluvium related hair loss subsides.

This means that the total hair loss and re-growth cycle can last 6 months, or possibly longer, when induced by physical stress of calorie deprivation.
. . .
In general Telogen effluvium will stop approximately four to fourteen weeks after the cause of the condition is resolved.

There are exceptions to every rule and some people have reported TE related loss and re-growth lasting for up to one year. Other TE victims have even experienced chronic Telogen effluvium (CTE). In the case of chronic TE the hair re-growth may be interrupted by more periods of sudden shedding.

There have been cases reported where TE was triggered, went into remission and continued to start again over a multiple year period. Everyone is different and will experience TE in their own unique way."

Great posts everyone! In my experience, those with outstanding health or emotional/psychological problems will probably have those problems exacerbated by any sudden shift in diet.....and this DOES occur when people attempt to eat too many cleansing type foods too quickly. The food (in this case fruit) often gets blamed for symptomology that develops. It's unfortunate.

-In any event, people that are in the worst positions often want to do the most radical changes. This is natural...but usually counter-productive in the long run. For most, a gradual changes like:

1) A continual but small process of improving the diet
2) A continual but small process of increasing activity & better rest
3) A continual but small process of getting back in touch with nature
4) A continual but small process of developing a process of diverting earned income into growth investment vehicles
5) A continual but small process of doing service work and giving to others

-The above tips would probably benefit most. In my experience/observation, large goals (or high-bar mental goals) that are failed at....no matter how noble that failure....do NOT set up a person for success. Only achieving goals does that....no matter how small the goal. Just some added thoughts.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com