After weights/pushups/pullups, are raw broccoli and other vegetables just as good as a protein shake?

better. But fruit is better again.

For muscle building?

you don't need to change your diet for muscle building.

veggies don't help to build muscle.

protein shakes are not a very good idea, imo.

There is plenty of protein in fruits & vegetables. If you want even higher, try a variety of home-grown sprouts.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

You build muscle with work not food. the old idea that weight lifters need to eat masses of eggs and steak etc to get loads of protein is now known to be wrong.

Dr. Doug Graham explains all this very well in his book the 80/10/10 diet.

It's hard to get your head around the concept that we don't need very much protein isn't it. We've all been brought up with the idea that we need protein for this that and the other. do some reading around the subject. Another good guy to read is Brendan Brazier - The Thrive diet -

best wishes
Philippa

If you go to muscle failure, your muscle fibers need protein reinforcement asap (15-20 minutes) after the workout for building.

If you are mostly a raw foodist, does the 15-20 minute rule still apply?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2008 09:18PM by mango19.

Well i have heard that you need protein for repair in the 15-20minute window after strenuous exercise but i still think this is the old way of thinking - but i am no expert and i think that you should contact one of the athlete/raw food guru's that I mentioned earlier. These guys are the living, walking , talking example of what you are asking about

I would be very interested to hear what you find out.

If this protien thing were true then why do you only need protien after a workout, why don't you need it after helping to lift/move a friends sofa or after carrying/lifting your produce from the store to the car....sounds to me if this protien thing were true then a lot of people are running into the negative on the stuff!!!

Also if this protien/building muscle thing were true why are we told that plant protien is just as good as meat protien, we are not plants!

Ha,ha...

RB

mango19 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you go to muscle failure, your muscle fibers
> need protein reinforcement asap (15-20 minutes)
> after the workout for building.
>
> If you are mostly a raw foodist, does the 15-20
> minute rule still apply?

even if we accept your premise, there are amino acids in circulation.
you do not need to eat protein after a workout to build muscle.

Mango 19

I think it is important that you get this sorted out. I know how difficult it is to get your head around different thinking.

I love to run and had always been brainwashed into this carbo load thing - you know lots of pasta etc the night before a run, porridge in the morning - protein for repair after the run.

but just trust that you don't have to.

I was so hesitant about only eating fruit before I went out for my run in the mornings - fruit for lunch - salad for supper (no supplements etc etc) sure that I would keel over.

BUT NO - I now run with more energy - have upped my weekly mileage and just completed the Loch Ness Marathon last month.

Just try it

with best wishes
Philippa

I'm not a scientist, so I can't give you sound advice. All i can say is right now I just eat bananas and dates after I work out and I still build muscle. I can't tell you if I built it faster eating one thing or another, I'd have to do more experiments but I enjoy eating dates and bananas right now hahaaa You could do a little two week or month experiment yourself and eat one way with more protein and the next with significantly less and see how you feel on both - with the same workout routine though. No one really knows what works for everyone; obviously high protein is in somes interest and doesn't matter for others

meeee, well I'm still interested in this protein babble. I'm just always interested in what idea may pop up next. I gotta study the human body more man so I can answer my own questions

anyway, good luck trying out your new thing; stay comfortable

Let me tell you I have spent hundreds, if not thousands, on protein powders,amino acid capsules,and other muscle building products,and never experienced any bigger gains than when I just eat fresh fruits and veggies.

Brian

Everything we eat– all fat -,- oil -,- carbohydrates -,- starch -,- and protein -,- gets digested and converted to vitamins -,- minerals -,- amino acids and glucose (blood sugar) -_- Glucose fuels our muscles - not protein -_- Amino acid proteins repair muscle cells -_- All fruit and all vegetables metabolize alkaline and contain an abundance of amino acids -_- In addition -,- all surplus amino acid proteins - are stored in the lymphatic system -_- As far as the "15-20 minute rule, don't swallow the sales hype !__! We have a storehouse of amino acids within our lymphatic system for immediate cell repair -_- Sufficient rest is also an important component ^__^

Only exercise strengthens muscles . . . My heart, the most important muscle in my body -,- gets its strength from aerobic exercise. Muscle strength and endurance comes from physical fitness and proper posture—Not from food or stimulants. Someone recovering from an extended illness soon learns that food alone, cannot strengthen weak muscles. In fact, food cannot strengthen any muscle. Food supplies nutrients for the body. Carbohydrates, fats and oils provide fuel for energy and amino acid proteins supply the building blocks for repairing tissue cells. Only exercise can build strong muscles -__- Think about this !__!

After we remove the cast from a broken bone, we will find muscles atrophied, flaccid and weak . . . It really doesn’t matter -,- how much exercise the rest of the body has had -,- or how many health foods -,- vitamins -,- minerals -,- cups of coffee -,- or green high protein supplements eaten °__° those unused muscles will not be ready to “jump up” and “go for it” after their nice long rest @__@ To regain their strength, endurance and reserve energy they must, be exercised . . . Muscle tone, postural alignment and physical fitness are not what one gets and then forgets. Developing strength and maintaining physical power, especially after middle age, means that we must become something like “human dynamos” capable of generating our own reserve energy (°_°) Flexibility, strength and proper posture must be gained then maintained with constant postural awareness -,- deep muscle stretching (yoga) and plenty of physical activity ^__°

Everybody is genetically endowed with a specific number of muscle fibers -__- There is no incredible food or magic protein formula that will change that -__- Only weight resistance exercise, can strengthen the fibers we already have -__- Without exercise, within four days, muscles begin to show signs of atrophy. That means before 96 hours, they are losing their tone. Even well developed athletes and bodybuilders lose their strength when not in training. The effects of one's choice, to exercise or not, can accumulate in either direction—becoming weaker and easily fatigued or becoming stronger and enduring longer. Especially with aging -,- it becomes increasingly difficult to exercise a weak body. Routine exercise coupled with scientific muscle stretching keeps us healthy, strong and flexible -_-
Even more important °-° feeling really good ~__~

Remember the lymphatic system does not have a pump of its own. Lymphatic fluid depends upon its one-way valve system for movement. The body’s kinetic motion flushes out viruses, bacteria and foreign particles filtered and trapped by the lymph nodes.
• Exercise activates body chemistry.

• Exercise pumps protein reserves to tissue cells.

• Exercise increases lymph flow throughout the system.

• Exercise helps our body eliminate toxic accumulations.

• Exercise fires up the metabolism and burns unwanted fat.

• Exercise creates sweat, which removes excessive cell salts.

• Exercise gives us strength, endurance and physical wellbeing.

• Exercise increase bone density as it energizes and enlivens us.

• Exercise causes deep breathing that generates an abundance of vital oxygen laden blood to the brain, organs and cells. Ask any dancer, runner or athlete about endorphin highs from Exercise.

• Exercise costs nothing. No amount of love -,- money or wishful thinking -,- can purchase any of its benefits for us -_- Just DO some EXTRA physical activity TODAY !_!

Why not make exercise a part of having fun, We can usually find the time for something we really enjoy doing. Why not make exercise a part of having fun. The extended benefits are very rewarding. Talk with older folks about the satisfaction of being able to remain independent and clean their own house, do their own shopping, prepare their own meals and put their own socks and shoes on as they age. They are smiling with confidence and sing praises for the benefits of staying alkaline, flexible and physically fit ~__~

Your pAL -__- Alkaline AL

www.alkalineal.com

superb post. thanks pAL

Exercise does build muscle, we all know this,
But how do we build big muscles ?
That does come down to food.
So what food do we need to eat to build big muscles ?

Paulie,
How big do you mean?
Olympia level bodybuilders build their muscles with steroids.
If any of them say they dont,they are feeding you BS.
Search for natural steroid free bodybuilders on the internet,and you will see whats possible with just food and workouts.Yes,most of them are not on raw diets,but approach it with an open mind.

My gut feeling,in the world of raw foods,is to eat sprouts and nuts,as a replacement for anything that would be considered muscle building foods in the SAD world.

Brian



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2008 12:53PM by Raw1228.

wasn't there a bodybuilder or something to tried 80/10/10 and said it actually helped to speed up how fast she put on muscle? I'm not making claims or anything, it's what the book mentioned. Could have been made up to gain interest.

It makes sense that if you get simple proteins from different sources your body doesn't have to break them down and put them together again, but instead just build right away from what it's got - the trick is probably getting all of the amino acids in correct proportions?

I didn't mean BIG like a pro bodybuilder, just a good size with muscle like the guys in the army or atheletes.

I have tryed the 80/10/10 and was eating LOTS of fruit and probably alot of calories and i did lose alot of weight, i wasn't really working out at the time, but im sure i still would have lost all the weight, maybe i would have built some muscle also, but i still would have looked skinny, as i do now.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2008 05:49PM by paulieGB.

some people are born long and slim and put on muscle with great difficulty while others bulk up in a flash - so it has to do with genetics too. no diet will make you bulge up unless you're using some sort of drug stimulant; but if you know it's matched with a damn good exercise routine, any balanced diet will do the trick.

army and athletes, remember, work out like crazy - i remember one of the swimmers doing an interview said she trained like 6 hours a day. and well, the army, thats pretty much laborious 24/7

try looking for P90X at beachbody.com - that looks like a really good program for people who are looking for effectiveness without having to actually train all day, like athletes and pro-sport players, etc. it talks about the plateau effect on muscles - very smart training it seems. Good luck though

www.sunwarrior.com has a raw brown rice protein powder. it's low-calorie, though. not sure what you're needing exactly. for me, if i want to feed my muscles at night, i want it to be low-sugar and low-fat, so this is perfect if i'm hungry at night.

also, sprouts are good, as mentioned, as are greens.

I agree that you don't need EXCESS protein to build muscle, but you obviously need protein, carbohydrates, and fat to function. I think this person just wants a high-protein meal or snack, which is understandable. HOnestly, I get about 80 g. (twice what I need) just from greens, fruits, sprouts, and other foods alone.

The only reason I started doing the protein shake at night is to NOT store fat/sugar while sleeping.

Utopian Life, you wrote:
The only reason I started doing the protein shake at night is to NOT store fat/sugar while sleeping.


How wold drinking a protein shake prevent fat storage? Why at night?

From what has been explained to me, it's to give my body a continuous protein source while resting (and thus, since resting, NOT burning any sugars or fat), preventing my body from eating my own muscles.

how does richard maintain his muscle then on just fruit ?

you'd have to ask him, if he even knows for sure.

fruit obviously has protein as well.

why don't you ask the 80/10/10 people why they say to eat fruit during the day and greens/sprouts at night.....

It's said by some that it's impossible for your body to feed on its own muscle. At night, doesn't your metabolism slow down anyway? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have any need to feed on muscle if it's possible that your body does cannibalize. On the other hand, I remember my dad telling me he used to ride his bike and was told you need to refuel on carbohydrates a lot in order to keep your body from using it's own muscle. So if you're in an extreme situation, it could be true if you were starving and running or biking for miles or something - but then again it could be you're body is also just going straight for the fat if there are no carbohydrates. I mean there is fat in between muscle, too, so it could be the appearance.

Plus, all I eat is fruit/greens pretty much and I see no muscle deterioration after I wake up or after the past two months. Just muscle built from exercise. But I'm no expert, I really don't think people need a ton of protein though, after reading china study, and after the results I've seen in myself and how I feel.

As for fruit day, and greens at night, that's just the order which digests the best. Or so it's been explained that way.
Like, I eat dates and bananas in the morning because they're sweet fruits and digest the fastest. After that and when I get hungry again I just go straight to oranges, strawberries and bell pepper, sometimes mango with a ton of lettuce and the occasional 1/2 avacado. Then if I feel like making some vegetables I'll go for that afterward. Anyway, just a little example I guess. Food in orderr!

What a mystery the diet can beee....

My posts are related to my experience, obviously. If others want to speculate and/or say that my posts are somehow related to something else, go ahead, but the OP wanted to know what we individually thought, and that's all we can provide.

My posts also don't have to deal with muscle-building; they have to do with storing fat and cellulite and other (usually) unwanted tissue stores. My muscles are plenty built for a woman.

I was only making an observation; it still doesn't make sense why the body would feed on muscle at night is all I'm saying and wondering if you have any leads to this scientifically perhaps. I'm not trying to offend you, It's only discussion.