Now, I am no scientist (so anyone who has any education in this area, please chime in!! ^.^), but from all of my anecdotal self-education and personal experience, I recently had a EUREKA about why some people might have such a hard time with cacao.

And I absolutely had to come and post here after getting two "blah blah blah cacao is high in antioxidants but is actually evil" stories in my inbox from the Daily Raw Inspiration (which I love... but I also love cacao. )

Cacao is an MAO-B inhibitor. I do not know how strong, or how much cacao is required to reach full inhibition, etc. But it does have MAO action, and when combined with other herbal MAOIs, it can be an EXTREMELY powerful potentiator... so it got me thinking!

If a person is taking MAOIs (herbal or pharmaceutical), generally a safety diet is recommended, because the body can't break down tyramine. If a person consumes too much tyramine while MAO inhibited, headaches or a hypertensive crisis can occur--that sounds very similar to the problems people report having with cacao.

Most of the foods proscribed are things like M**T and CH**SE, but raw foodists *can* encounter problems with tyramine, too. Nama Shoyu, miso, avocado, nuts, fermented foods, dark red wines, can also result in some very negative symptoms. (Banana peels are high in tyramine, too >8) )

I have read that when using other herbal MAOIs, as little as 1-2g of raw cacao is required to create a seriously noticeable effect upon the body.

And so, my question is: how many grams of cacao are raw foodists eating when they have that gourmet piece of raw chocolate cake?

In conclusion, I offer this hypothesis to explain why people are having problems with cacao on the raw diet: I think some of the negative symptoms could be explained by an MAOI/tyramine interaction, rather than chalking everything up to cacao's stimulant effects. I am personally not satisfied with the "cacao sucks because it is a stimulant" theory, because people's personal responses to it are all over the map. Some people can eat it, and some people have huge problems--but no one ever checked to see if they were having problems because they had a high tyramine intake either 24 hours before or after that raw chocolate cake. Aha, a new food combination rule (like we need another one!) specifically for the intake of cacao!

Or perhaps, like all things, it is a combination of the two! ^.~

And, finally, I also still really believe that cacao is fine to consume for its rich magnesium content and antioxidants--in moderate amounts. Is your cacao medicine, or candy?

If anyone knows more about the science of the MAOI activity in raw cacao, I'd love to hear it. I have no idea how long it lasts for. I love to throw a bit of cacao in a smoothie (a few grams) from time to time, but I stay FAR, FAR AWAY from the giant slices of raw chocolate cake. How many grams of cacao are in those? 20g? 50g? More? Are the negative effects of cacao more likely to be dose-dependent?

Or is this all utter NONSENSE on my behalf?!?! (Then we could all agree that cacao's stimulant effects have definitely been having a negative impact upon my brain. )

I'm off to juice!!! Much love!!!

One way you could test your theory is to take some dmt or ayahuasca orally and if the mao's are being inhibited, you'll trip out. If not then it's not being inhibited...So if you are inhibiting then you could ask others who experience problems are eating things high in tyramine...What a fun test you've got there

i love doing things like this in my head; i think about this not only on certain foods..but even raw vs. cooked..see there is soo much evidence about SO much out there that any theory could be plausible, and worth listening to.

i mean, einstein thought up e=mc^2 and he wasn't some famous scientist before he did it; so thinking on a large scale of open-mindedness is always lovely. and cacao is a naturally occurring element of nature - which many things from nature have been used to cure different things in people - just check out asian cultures.

hope we can get some scientific feedback on this topic, but other then that, i like how you thought this up

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2008 01:53AM by phantom.

Kombaiyashii,

Cacao IS totally 100% an MAO-B inhibitor. This is already proven.

My concern is that raw foodists who experience headaches and hypertensive problems from cacao may not be entirely correct in attributing these symptoms to theobromine. Part of the culprit could be an overconsumption of tyramine if a person eats cacao in quantities for sufficient MAO inhibition (which I'm sure a lot of the gourmet raw recipes out there are).

DMT is also illegal in most countries (though The Onion has written some awesome satire about that!), and Ayahuasca is a pretty heavy spiritual tradition that I wouldn't want to disrespect.

---

I know there are people here who HAVE had problems with cacao in the past--would anyone care to step out of the woodwork? ^.~ It would be interesting to hear if they consume things like miso, nama shoyu, avocados, fermented foods, etc., and how often.

I normally try to eat a tyramine-free diet (salt bloats me... nama shoyu is $$$), and since I try to keep my fat consumption down, I try hard not to mix a guacamole day with a cacao-banana-smoothie day, anyway. I have always been one of those people who never experiences the negative effects when I eat it, and the fact that my diet GENERALLY avoids the combination of cacao with offenders, it would further support the idea.

I have a raw recipe book, which includes a recipe for raw chocolate pudding, with cacao and avocados. Plenty of theoretically bad cacao combinations are out there. It would have only taken one night of PMS for me to eat a tub of that pudding in one shot, should I have ever made it--maybe I'll try... maybe not. >8)

Don't we have some nutritional science people here, too? Professionals? ^.~

I have often consumed large amounts of raw cacao... Including avocado/cacao pudding and gourmet cacao cake. I do not experience any negative side effects with cacao.
Of the above listed foods: Nama Shoyu, miso, avocado, nuts, fermented foods, dark red wines...

I regularly consume avocados and nuts and occasionally homemade sauerkraut, and very rarely braggs liquid aminos and miso.

Sunflower
Raw Food Chef and Writer
Comfortably Raw
[www.comfortablyraw.com]

I consume cacao almost daily. Not sure how many grams. No known side effects except happiness with the flavor. :p

If people have issues with that, I respect it and respect their decision not to eat it. That's their choice. So I don't see why someone would have a problem with ME choosing to eat it. In fact, if they have a stash and want to send it, I'll pay for the shipping! :p

[renegadehealth.com]

oh i liked that link, the renegade health. makes me love what the human body does as warnings..so wierd

yeah, i agree, cacao is probably something to be enjoyed in small doses because it's a huge stimulant - anything that over stresses the kidney/adrenal glands on a regular basis is not good. Brendan Brazier wrote a really good book that talks about that, and I remember him saying it's not a good idea to take stimulants all the time - and they may be good if you're about to work out or something, but he warns about crashes and stuff like that. So yeah, that link pretty much sums up whether or not you should have the OK to eat cacao regularly or not. Perhaps it also depends on what you pair it with when you eat it, though, that is still a factor.

Utopian life what do you do all day with all that cacao in you?