I was first introduced to raw food in a book called the pH Miracle Diet, which says you can lose 1 lb. a day eating alkalinizing foods -- and you can! I tried it for about a week, which was all I could stand, and lost a pound a day. Of course, most of the recipes in that book are mediocre at best, and some of them are frankly inedible and some merely unuseable (e.g., a chipotle-titled dish without that ingredient listed or even mentioned in the directions!).

I didn't feel particularly better eating their dishes, and in fact many times I felt a real deficit, craving something a little heavier and.... more grounding, I suppose (less "expansive"? something to make me feel full and sated. To wit: grains, breads. A baked potato maybe or even "potassium broth" might have worked. It was literally impossible for me to eat that diet for more than a few days, and even then I was mostly miserable.

I'm also not one who can eat cold or even room temp foods all the time. In the winter, I can barely eat a standard lettuce-leaf salad at all. Sometimes even in the summer I'll take cold food out of the fridge to let it warm to room temp before I eat it, even fruit.

Now, I'm heartened to read here in the forums that it's okay to be partly raw, and I'm thinking that's the direction I'm headed in for now. I am seriously drawn to raw foods, for some reason, and have been adding more the past several days, and feeling pretty good about it, both the foods and how I'm feeling eating more of them. So, that's encouraging.

Now, MY FIRST QUESTION IS THIS:
Are there people whose constitutions will not permit them to healthily eat a 100% raw diet?

If not, if you're sure everyone can, what would I need to do to get there from here? And don't tell me to just go for it, tough it out: that is not an option.


MY SECOND QUESTION IS THIS:
I just read a chilling discussion about parasites, which I know are a greater threat when you're eating mostly or entirely raw food. WHAT DO YA'LL DO AS PART OF YOUR FOOD PREP TO AVOID THAT PROBLEM? I've read a number of different things over the years and I'm looking for some definitive rule or guideline (cough).


Oh, just ONE MORE QUESTION:
How on earth do ya'll afford it? Do you limit the amount of nuts you consume, or what?


Thanks in advance for any useful input and advice.

Althion

1. Of course, it's what we're evolved to eat. About 150 generations ago, processed food didn't exist!!! What do you think people did then??? People who say "it doesn't matter what we evolved to eat" are obscenely stupid and don't understand evolution. We're designed from the ground up to make use of raw food, nothing else.

2. They're very rare, only in killed animal protein do they cause a real problem. Just avoid animal protein and you'll be fine. 99% of your health is about eating raw foods.

The final 1% is about choosing organic and just a fraction of that is about parasites etc., it's really just smoothening out the rough edges. If they make you feel funny or are notorious for pesticides (eg. spinach) then try to only get it if it's organic.

3. Nuts aren't that expensive per calorie. But yes, it does cost quite an amount more to eat this way. IT'S FOR YOUR HEALTH!!!!

The fact that you don't feel good and crave cooked foods when you spend a few days on 100% raw foods is NOT an indication that raw foods are not good for you. I am being sincere and not trying to tease you or make a joke, but if you would, please consider this proposition:

If a heroin addict has to spend a week without heroin, there would be some pain, weakness, all sorts of signs that this person does not get better, but worse as a result of coming off heroin. The person would crave the drug, feel sick; Everything would point to the obvious conclusion that some people are just unable or not "meant" to live without heroin.

Do your own research, and there is not all that much real science on the topic out there because no one has much of a financial interest in it, but I believe you will find people on this forum who will be able to attest to the fact that cooked foods are addictive and it takes some time (usually a few weeks) and discomfort to get over the addiction and stop feeling weak and sick.

The simple answer is, yes, cooked foods are right for everyone, but everyone has to find her own approach. David Zane Mason on here has some excellent ideas on how to transition. He advocates setting small goals for yourself, whatever you are comfortable with, and focusing on improving rather than being or failing to be perfect:

If you ate 30% raw foods last week, maybe you will want to shoot for 40% next week. Maybe you are more comfortable with 35%. Either way would be a step in the right direction, and if you take lots of steps in the right direction, your life will improve. You don't have to go from 30% to 100% within a week, a month, or even a year.

To say raw foods are associated with parasites is too much of an oversimplification. If you eat all kinds of raw fish all the time, chances are you will eventually have worms. Raw bananas --- not so much.

kleinphi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The simple answer is, yes, cooked foods are right
> for everyone,

errmm... ooops! Raw* foods I think you meant!!!

The constitution which will not permit one to be healthy on an all raw diet has to with the constitution of the mind/emotions/spirit. If one views themselves as a victim in life, then it is very likely that on the raw diet, they will be a victim of the raw diet. If one's outlook is such that things tend to work for them, that they tend to do well with everything they try, then on the raw diet, this will be no different than the other experiences in their lives.

Parasites are a problem for people eating a diet of animal products. For a raw vegan who is healthy, there is no problem with parasites. However, a person transitioning from a SAD diet will be susceptible to parasites. Fortunately, when eating a diet high in fresh fruits and salads, there are very few if any parasites one needs to worry about. The only exception are vegetables that have been washed in the manufacturing process with water that has been tainted by animal products.

As for affording it, it is possible to buy quality organic foods at a discount if you are a smart shopper. Start or join a food buying cooperative, engage with your community supported agriculture, start your own garden, grow sprouts, harvest uneaten fruit from neighbor's fruit trees (of course, after getting permission). Eating nuts is not necessary on the raw diet. Seeds are a cheaper option for whole food fats. But a better option than nuts or seeds are avocados.

Althion,

Welcome! The other posts pretty much express what I think, given your description, but I will just add this: I believed I was one of those "can't stand cold food in winter" people, but after a couple of weeks of eating lots of sunshiny looking fruit, my metabolism actually adjusted, and one day I realized I didn't feel cold while eating, ta-da! Now, I abhorred really, really cold cooked foods, generally, and don't like most raw foods icy cold, but I found room temp fruit and veg tasted warm to me after I'd adjusted. Maybe it's a physiological response; chewing does get your internal oven working. Some raw foods gurus advocate heating things up to just warm, like heating a raw soup on a stove while stirring until it no longer feels cold.

In any case, there is no scientific evidence that we differ metabolically one from another distinctly enough to need different diets.

I'm just going to respond to this one post since my comments apply to most of the other posts as well.


SuperInfinity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. Of course, it's what we're evolved to eat.
> About 150 generations ago, processed food didn't
> exist!!! What do you think people did then???

Unless you're defining it in your own way (that is, different from the current usage), not having "processed food" doesn't preclude cooking food. I believe our ancestors cooked their meats and probably many other foods as well. Some of those roots and stuff can be very, very chewy unless cooked. I can think of one common wild vegetable that's poisonous unless cooked. I'm sure it's not the only one. They also devised ways to preserve their foods so they would last past summer into the winter. Alcohol and other fermentation worked, and so did animal fats which had to be rendered via cooking. Smoking was another, which if not "cooking" is quite close. And while I'm not adding up how many years = 150 generations, once grains came along, you betcha they cooked things.

After I posted the question, I remembered that you can eat grains (and beans!) on a Raw Food diet -- but sprouted and raw. That would probably work for me. Haven't tried it yet. But ya'll missed that!! Thanks to the one who reminded me that you can WARM things up without cooking them. Most everyone seemed so intent on defending/imposing their Raw Food ideology they looked past offering practical help for the newbie. My question was, after all: how do I get there from here?

Re parasites:

> 2. They're very rare, only in killed animal
> protein do they cause a real problem. Just avoid
> animal protein and you'll be fine.

No, I'm sorry. Those who are involved in parasites (research, etc.) in the healthcare field are very clear that MOST Americans have parasites, that they are everywhere (esp. in plant material and certainly organic as well), and if you do any research yourself, you'll find they are very very clever (talk about evolution!) in having developed ways to get through their growth cycles and find the way to their ultimate hosts. Now, you might be right that they won't much bother someone whose health and immunity are at their maximum due to exquisite diet, but I wouldn't want to chance it. But most people need to be very concerned about parasites, and even more so if they have pets. Here's a good article:

Parasites Are More Common Than You Think
[www.articlehealthandfitness.com]


Thanks for the input, all.

if you are convinced that the above is true then there really is no reason for anyone here to try and convince you otherwise , we are all here to support each other in a different way of eating that doesnt include cooking or animal products

yes im sure we all have parasites to some degree or another but a healthy host makes for an unhealthy environment for parasites.
I have pets , i grow my own food, our family has a farm, were exposed to things, and recent tests that i have taken show no evidence of appreciatble parasite load that would be any cause for concern i dont flea dip or worm my pets ever and by vetrinary examination they are just perfectly fine as well.

breaking the shackles of paranoia can be a good thing, you also need to research the poeple behind the research studies you are reading and find out what their motive is behind making a point of telling you what is good and bad for you. you would be suprised to discover the poeple behind these studies and the billions of dollars at stake if you can somehow get away from eating the standard american diet whos paying for these studies and what do they have to lose against their bottom line

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Althion,

You are correct about cooking being a part of our ancestors' dietary regimen, but the timeline is the problem. It is almost impossible that our guts have evolved in so brief a time to process large amounts of cooked foods. They most certainly have not evolved to process "phood" foods, so termed by me because they are made in a lab and are NOT food. These are the things that are commonly consumed in the SAD. Result: catastrophic diet-based health problems.

As for sprouted beans and grains, you will find if you peruse the threads here that the majority of posters probably consume few or no sprouted beans or grains. The majority of those that do, do so in the transition phase, when the brain still craves starchy carbohydrates. Not to dissuade you, but these are tolerated well by some people and not well by others, and the average appetite seems to adjust to carbs from fruit as opposed to grains eventually, though some raw foodists continue to consume sprouted grains and beans happily. Give them a go if you are curious.

As for parasites, and I apologize to anyone who's tired of hearing this, but I am a trained cook. Neither in my formal culinary instruction nor in my professional experience have I learned that fresh, clean produce is a parasite risk. Raw meat, fish, and even pasteurized factory dairy, on the other hand, whoo boy! I'll take a minute bacterial infection from soily broccoli over trichina any day.

Althion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm just going to respond to this one post since
> my comments apply to most of the other posts as
> well.
>
>
> SuperInfinity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1. Of course, it's what we're evolved to eat.
> > About 150 generations ago, processed food
> didn't
> > exist!!! What do you think people did then???
>
> Unless you're defining it in your own way (that
> is, different from the current usage), not having
> "processed food" doesn't preclude cooking food. I
> believe our ancestors cooked their meats and
> probably many other foods as well. Some of those
> roots and stuff can be very, very chewy unless
> cooked.

We'd only have eaten stuff like potatoes when times got REALLY bad, the same with most animal protein. It's not optimal. Orangutans are known to eat bark and clay when they are starved enough... it's still better than nothing but it's poor quality food. Perhaps we are a LITTLE evolved for cooking food, but not much I'm afraid in the space of 20-200,000 years depending on when you believe cooking as invented. You may do very well on cooked food for a long time, but it's not what you're evolved for, it's just a patch at the end. Why would you want to cook it anyway? There's no reason for it, it's psychological.

>
> No, I'm sorry. Those who are involved in parasites
> (research, etc.) in the healthcare field are very
> clear that MOST Americans have parasites, that
> they are everywhere (esp. in plant material and
> certainly organic as well), and if you do any
> research yourself, you'll find they are very very
> clever (talk about evolution!) in having developed
> ways to get through their growth cycles and find
> the way to their ultimate hosts. Now, you might be
> right that they won't much bother someone whose
> health and immunity are at their maximum due to
> exquisite diet, but I wouldn't want to chance it.
> But most people need to be very concerned about
> parasites, and even more so if they have pets.
> Here's a good article:
>
> Parasites Are More Common Than You Think
> [www.articlehealthandfitness.com]
> il.php?artid=15103&catid=381&title=Parasites-Are-M
> ore-Common-Than-You-Think
>

That is dangerous nonsense. I'm talking about the killer parasites and worms that come in common animal protein such as white fish or red meat. I'm not talking about the small harmless life that comes in every day raw foods.

When was the last time you heard of someone getting sick or dying because they ate raw fruit or veg?! The reason old people's immune systems are so terrible these days is partly because it's never PRACTICED ON. It's never HONED. It's not BALANCED.

Just because you've bought into this idea that everything should be extremely sterile and the more sterile the better doesn't mean we all have. In actual fact we should be eating small quantaties of soils etc. and insects and dirt in order to have a really good immune system.

do your best to eat as much raw as you can...and if you still need some cooked foods cook them just enought to satisy what you need (still crunchy). aajonus vonderplanitz has deigned a program using raw meat , dairy and juices for those who are carnivorous.

refrain from eating anything in the juk food category. 1+1 equals two..1-1 equals zero.

jj

I agree with Bryan's post and also Tamukha's.


I wanted to say that the tone of your response was a little negative, especially this, "Most everyone seemed so intent on defending/imposing their Raw Food ideology they looked past offering practical help for the newbie." People took the time to respond to you and you are calling their help or attempted help "ideology" and placing it in a different light than what they may have intended. This negative comment, I believe, was based on an assumption. You don't know the responder's intention, and it may well have been practical help in their mind.

I have found as time passes, my raw-food practices change. Like many others on here, I now eat high fruit, low fat. I haven't had seeds in a while, nor nuts, nor coconut. Avocado is infrequently eaten. I LOVE how I feel eating sweet fruit for the majority of my calories. Greens are also important to eat, whatever diet you choose to be on.

Find a cheap place for local produce. That's all you need. In the beginning, it's probably good to use herbs for your salads and mix as many different types of non-sweet fruits on as you like to make it palatable, but it's better for the digestion to eat simply. You can use Belgian endive, spinach, kale, bok choy, whatever kind of green sounds good! I have heard of people making stews raw with chopped vegetables as one part and pureed broth for the other. That might help you feel like you have eaten soup or something warm. You can make raw pasta with spiralized/noodled zucchini, cucumber, and other things. Just ask for help if you need it!

there are tons of people who don't make 100% raw their goal (myself included, did it for a long time and don't see the point in continuing, i feel just as good high raw as i did all raw).
transition is a great way to include more and more raw, you don't have to do it all, or even a lot, overnight. as you increase raw and substitute raw versions of cooked dishes over time you come to realize that you are in fact eating a very high percentage of raw and it wasn't really any hard work at all! going slowly, setting small goals as mentioned above, not pressuring yourself, keeping it easy and simple and fun as you learn what works for you, what tastes good, what fills you and makes you feel terrific, that works for lots of people.

i don't love cold food or drink either, i eat lots of things room temp or slightly warmed. i like moderate temps, i am that way even w cooked dishes, above warm is too hot for me.

as for parasites, i've told the story of my sister's lovely parasitic infection on here before so suffice it to say that i wash everything very well, soaking things in water and a drop of grapefruit seed extract or even vinegar sometimes. i don't take chances with parasites in food grown in dirt (will eat wild berries off trees and bushes though). my sis is veg, VERY healthy and she was very, very sick from the one she had. she got it from not washing food out of her garden, they weren't using animal fertilizer either. the soil just had it in there.

the more raw you eat and the longer you eat that way, the better your digestion becomes. your body rids itself of excess junk which means less energy devoted to cleaning up, you become more able to extract nutrients from food that is easier to process. in effect, you just need less over time. and yes, i do think that as you become more accustomed to being "satisfied" from the foods that you eat instead of needing to feel "full", you naturally eat less, lighter, including less nuts and other heavy foods. i think it's easier to cope w the transition all around if you go slow, unless you have extra cash or access to inexpensive produce and supplements/super foods if you are using those.