Hey,
hows it going.

Ok what does everyone think is more healthy,
Someone eating 'LOTS' of fruits and raw foods all day.
or -
Someone who fasts all day and then eats a raw vegan meal as a starter and then a healthy 'cooked' meal.
???

Im just thinking and from past experience that eating LOADS of fruits and raw foods all day doesn't make you feel all that great.
Your body is working pritty hard all day digesting,
And your probably not getting all the goodness from the food anyway, because your stuffing yourself to much.

Any comments ?


Paulie

On which diet do *you* experience better health?

well
fasting all day is great and i feel very good when i do this, so i would say i feel healthier fasting then eating a healthy meal including cooked food.

Maybe i would feel better fasting all day then eating a raw vegan meal.
I haven't been able to do that yet, it just don't satisfie me enough and im sure i would lose a lot of weight if i did this for a while.
and i can't aford to lose any, i need to put some on.

im experimenting with this a t the moment and i do feel like raw vegan is the healthiest way to eat.
I just can't be eating all day it doesn't make me feel good and i crave food all the time.
Also i need to put some weight on idealy,
But i definatly need to maintain my weight.

I was just wandering everyone opinion on what they think is the healthiest, because i dont feel healthy eating lots of fruit all day.

Paulie.

what do you mean when you say , you dont feel healthy? do you mean you feel gassy? or bloated? or light headed ? or bunged up ?

depends on what you do all day too ... if you are say .. working a physically intense job all day .... i wouldnt think fasting all day with a huge meal at the end would be a good thing ...no fuel all day to burn .... ?

eating fruit all day is probably easier to digest then harder to digest meals .. i would think fruit would probably be the easiest as it stays in the system not very long ...

check out this chart for some ideas maybe [66.218.69.11]

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

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Someone eating 'LOTS' of fruits and raw foods all day.

Thats a good start. As soon as you get a grip on yourself start listening to your body and after eating something wait until your body lets you know that it would like some fuel again. Then eat a SMALL meal, you might try mono meals - their great. Then again wait for a signal before eating again. The idea is to eat all fresh raw foods in small amounts separated by a slight hunger signal. I have found this way of eating to be very responsive to the body's needs and I enjoy being in the "comfort zone" between slightly hungry and slightly full for 99% of my day.

doesn't eating that way mean your body is constantly working and digesting all the food ?

I read that fasting is the healthiest thing we can do.

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doesn't eating that way mean your body is constantly working and digesting all the food ?

Actually waiting for your body to signal that it wants more fuel causes periods of time where you are not eating. Digestion happens until the food is digested plus an additional period of time in the "comfort zone". I have found that in order to keep my weight up so that I don't look like a "stick" person I need to eat 2 or more large avocados and some bananas everyday. The avocados provide needed natural whole food fats and protein.

Quote

I read that fasting is the healthiest thing we can do.

I think fasts are great and have their place and I also think that eating food is good too. Each has its time, place, and purpose.

thats interesting,
Maybe the avocado's will help me, i might try that.

Now if your eating every time your body signals you to eat then that has to be alot of food, well it would be for me anyway.
If you are eating 2 avocados and bannanas and other fruit, thats alot of different types of food that takes different times to digest
I think the avocados take a while ?

I was eating this way a little while back without the avocados, just lots of different fruits through the day, and i found myself getting hungry shortly after every fruit meal and i was eating lots of food and i dont 'think' its healthy eating food constantly all day.(just going by what i have read)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2008 10:33PM by paulieGB.

A cleansing fast is good for you. Starving your body of nutrients for part of every day regardless of hunger causes your liver, pancreas, and brain to freak out and throw glycogen production off kilter. I have known people to induce hypoglycemia by doing this regularily. Please take the advice of the others, and don't treat yourself like a lab rat for longer than you are comfortable with!

paulieGB, sounds like you're talking about the Warrior Diet.

Yeah, it's probably healthy than stuffing yourself with fruit day in & day out.

I dunno about pure fasting though, I think drinking some juice during the day might be good. As well as a bit of protein.

No cooked meal is 'healthy'. You are eating damaged food. There may be some cooked meals that are 'less unhealthy' than other cooked meals.

Fasting is good. Follow your fast with a raw starter then a raw main meal.

If you're constantly hungry, and it's hard to maintain weight, I mean obviously you need some more food. Calorie-dense food! Might be why the cooked food made you feel better -- and also it does take a lot of energy to digest A LOT of food. I mean 5 strawberries vs. 40 will not digest in the same amount of time. I know, I get the same feeling when i eat huge meals of fruit. It happens in chimps - they can eat figs all day till you can literally see their stomachs expand, and then they rest. So this pretty much implies it's taking all their energy to digest what they eat - a large percentage being foilage and fruit.

From what I've read, I think you're first choice is better, just because you most likely feel better on it. I mean if your body feels better on something, I don't think you should ignore that. And the fact that there are pretty logical explanations behind why you probably feel better on it, like you stated.

debbietook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No cooked meal is 'healthy'. You are eating
> damaged food.

Food that has been picked unripe or refrigerated for long periods or grown with pesticides is "damaged". Cooked = poison dogma is not particularly practical for the average person. And commentary such as "any raw food is healthier than anything cooked" gives people interested in raw a bad name.

yes, please explain why cooked food is damaged?

I'm just wondering, because I see comments like yours all the time on these boards, iLIVE--is there still some confusion about enzyme theory and cooking-related acidosis/oxydation? These are two fundamental hypotheses of raw foodism, and I'm just wondering why raw foodists are debating them. Is there a new controversy I missed? I'm pretty sure I've seen older posts about both these topics on these boards. Or maybe I've just read a lot of books and articles online by clinicians. No, no--I'll go and check right now, but I'm pretty sure these have been posted as topics elsewhere on this site. Could someone refresh our collective memory, please? Thanks!

I was just asking the question to see what debbietook knew about it. I know about it, i've read articles. I've also read articles to the contrary discussed by many hygienists which seem to make more sense. The enzyme theory is not provable or probable in my opinion and experience, and shouldn't be the reason why someone would switch from cooked to raw food. I try to get a good balance of views of more professional people...on both sides, and this theory just doesn't have a lot going for it. It did at first when I thought it made sense, but I also hadn't heard ANY other opinion about it. Once I read more, it fell apart in my head as debunkable. After all, how can we learn anything if we agree with something too fast and disregard anything other statement against it?

For whatever reason, I know that for me, I definitely do best on raw food.

When I eat only fruit though, I eventually get that feeling of still being hungry.

Either some greens, an avocado, or some nuts and seeds - or all 3 - will remove that feeling for me. And it usually doesn't take a lot.

iLIVE, My body's reaction to eating raw food compared to eating cooked food - even just steamed greens - is so radically different.

I don't claim to know if enzyme theory is correct or incorrect, but I'm wondering if there's something else that would account for the difference. Do you have a theory on that? My understanding is that cooking starches can cause changes that are destructive, and definitely cooked starches seem to hurt me worse than cooked greens. But why would even eating steamed greens feel so different?

Could there be some other kind of life force transfer that protects us somehow when we eat raw? Prana maybe?

Or is there some other possible explanation? I'm open to whatever on this.

are you sure it's the steamed greens that make you feel different? Because I started steaming things and I felt no change. Could be all in your head.

It could also be that if you're eating something with a certain diet, it will have a different effect in that environment.

like think about it -- if you're on a diet of like mostly meat and fat, and randomly eat fruit with it, you're probably not going to feel good. Because random bursts of sugar while you're body is metabolizing mostly fat doesn't match up to well, and isn't really likely in the wild anyway. The thing most likely to be blamed is the fruit, but that doesn't mean there are other ways to eat it. Same could be true for any diet, really.

This is a somewhat complex question in that there are some assumptions here.

If the person eating all raw eats 'LOTS' of fruits and vegetables, but it is still in the capacity of the body to detoxify and eliminate all waste products from all the meals eaten that day during the nights sleep, then there should be no ill effects of eating 'LOTS' of raw foods.

Similarly, if a person eating cooked foods is able to completely detoxify and eliminate all the waste products from the meals eaten that day, then there should be no ill effects of eating cooked foods.

I am assuming that each person had enough energy to do in the day everything they had hoped to do.

At the beginning of my raw journey, I had to spend a lot of time during the day to eat all the food to feed me. This is because at the beginning, my stomach was small and could not hold that much raw foods, thus I could not get that much energy from the raw food I ate. So what I did was eat 5 to 6 meals a day.

Also, eating raw foods takes longer than eating cooked foods. When I was eating SAD, I could eat a 1000 calorie meal in 10 minutes. When I first went raw, eating a salad of 500 calories might take 30-45 minutes. Same with eating fruit. I had to do a lot more chewing of raw foods that was not necessary with cooked foods.

Nowadays, when my larger capacity stomach and experience, it might still take me an hour to eat a meal that has 700 calories in it. If I include a salad in that meal, it could take 90 minutes to eat that meal.

But where as I used to eat 5 to 6 meals in a day when I first started raw, I only eat 2 meals a day now.

Given the same number of calories of cooked versus raw foods, the cooked foods will have more toxins in them. This is not a problem if your body is fully able to detoxify the daily meals during the night's sleep.

The toxins that are created from cooking are explained in this article. As this article is somewhat old, it doesn't contain more recent research, like the carcinogen acrylamide that is formed from cooking, nor the Advanced Glycation End products (AGE) that are form during cooking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2008 02:38AM by Bryan.

Bryan, I am sorry, I accidentally hit the reply via PM button rather than the regular reply button.

I meant to post here. Anyway here is a link to a recent commentary:

Aging and glycoxidant stress
Melpomeni Peppa,1 Jaime Uribarri,2 Helen Vlassara3
HORMONES 2008, 7(2):123-132
[hormones.gr]


Abstract
Aging and related diseases are accompanied by increased Oxidative Stress (OS) and accumulation of Advanced Glycation End products (AGEs). One important component of AGEs accumulation with aging appears to be the sustained exposure to dietary AGE (dAGEs), which contributes to overloading of anti-AGE receptors and depletion of anti-oxidant reserves. In this review, we present experimental animal and human data which support this postulation. Lowering the content of AGEs in the normal diet significantly prevents AGEs accumulation and the increased OS caused by aging and also extends lifespan in mice. In humans, short-term trials indicate that a Low AGEs diet reduces oxidant burden and inflammatory markers. Long-term studies are in progress and will help establish definitive causality between age-related disease states and modern dietary practices in Western societies.

from the conclusion
AGEs underlie many aspects of the aging process. One of the ways by which AGEs induce changes related to aging is by generating reactive oxidant species, which further promote the formation of AGEs. This sets up a vicious action/reaction cycle, which progressively increases OS and the risk for both micro- and macrovascular disease. Extrapolation of data from animal models suggests that a life-long exposure to the High-AGE content of the standard Western diet leads to prolonged exposure to high levels of exogenous glycoxidants, increased OS and decreased innate immunity, which begin in early adulthood and progress throughout life. These changes could play a key role in the development of the aging process. It is quite possible that a diet with 50% lower AGE content could have substantial beneficial anti-aging effects.

Great links, Bryan and Arugula!

And thank you for your thoughts on this iLIVE.

I am having the same issue - trying to figure out what works best for my body right now. i am not sure why the change, but I have always gotten up in the am and waited until I felt hungry to eat 4-8 bananas, depending on size and level of hunger. I have needed less and less the longer I have been raw. Then for lunch I would either have a huge salad, or 2lbs offruit. I have never had a problem eating a combination of fruit, even mixing melons in even though I know the rule about melon. So, the past few days I have been rushing around, and have just stopped and picked up 2lbs of fruit cut up. I should have stuck with a mono fruit I think, but got mixed. About three hours later, my stomach has been in so much pain I can hardly sit down. And, I tried to eat all of the melon first before eating any of the other fruits, so I really don't think it was the melon.

On top of it, I know this is too much info, but a few times I have gotten literally sick to my stomach...ralphing sick, and when I do ralph I can see food from like 15 hours earlier. Obviously I am having difficulty with digestion, and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions.

I am THIN now and do not want to lose another lb. I would like to gain about ten, so fasting isn't in the cards right now. I am thinking about a clonic, any ideas or experiences? Perhaps a cleanse of some sort, but again, I am really not wanting to lose any more weight. Thanks so much for any input. VF

I feel best eating all raw, about half fruit and half veggies, with some nuts, seeds and avo (about 10%), with a short (two day) fast thrown in every once in a while. right now, though, I am having a heck of a time with will power -- I want to eat what I know is unhealthy for me, then I regret it later, but it doesn't help me in the long run. I too have digestive problems when I don't eat like I should.

If your buying already cut up fruit bowls you may not be getting the kind of a quality control process you need. I am very careful not to put spoiled food into my system as I know how uncomfortable it can be to have to bring it back up to get rid of it. It is surprising how a small amount of rotten food can spoil a stomach full and stop the digestion of the entire load until the mess is expelled. I have found that the best quality control happens when I prepare my own food. Also there is a lot less oxidation of the food if it is prepared and then eaten immediately rather then if it is prepared and then shelved for an undetermined length of time. Do your quality control as you prepare your food and then eat it fresh for the best results.

veggiefreak,

Maybe your body is purging something and the mixed fruit didn't help this to happen neatly. Do you juice any greens? With lots of cut up lemon? And filtered water? This would help quell stomach eruptions and go easy on your liver, pancreas, and kidneys. Try eating just juicy fruits, besides, and singly, and see how you do. Rest as much as you can, also. Good luck.

[your probably not getting all the goodness from the food anyway, because your stuffing yourself to much]

Whoa, I overlooked this at first.

A great deal of that "goodness" comes from the fibers, which you are stuffing yourself with.

And that's a whole lot healthier than a compact, dense way of eating.

Think 20-55 servings of f+v per day instead of 5-7. Work your way up to the highest amount you can, a little bit at a time.

"Cvilians" are still astonished by the size of my daily salads. But I have been eating them so large for so many years that I am astonished at the size of theirs (easily 1/10 of what I usually eat).

Right. You guys can fugure out anything

Okay, on top of everything I wrote before, I am totally struggling with candida! And, in Dr Dougs book he talks about the importance of cutting back on fats. And how mixing fats with fruits can produce an overgrowth of yeast. I don't eat enough fat, in fact have about a half an avacado every two or three days. Is the fruit producing the candida? I am getting so frustrated because I am feeling terrible all of a sudden, although know that it is all part of the detox and am not going to give up the way I know is best to eat. Just venting I guess, and as always looking for "expert" advice!

PS - Arugula, who said this?
[your probably not getting all the goodness from the food anyway, because your stuffing yourself to much)
I couldn't find it in the posts.