Hi,

Has anyone of you ever tried a diet of nuts/avocado's and green vegetables? I would love to hear about your experiences with a high fat/low carb diet! I remember one person on this forum long ago who was going on greens only, would love to hear from him as well!

Greenpower

I like for my brain to function......

I probably had a fairly low carb diet for awhile when I was into high-raw (mostly ate nuts & veggies). However, the high-nut diet didn't agree with me. High greens is a great idea though. I consume greens in high quantities at every meal (unless I just have an apple or cantaloupe or something which I don't count as a meal really). If I run out & can't get more I just don't feel right.

You could get away with a diet with just veggies & fat/protein but a vegan version would be pretty limited. People worry too much about ratios & less about vegetables IMO. If you're eating lots of greens & getting good exercise I would not worry about ratios (except for minimizing PUFA's beyond the essentials).

I don't know what PUFA's are???

You could try it for awhile, but ultimately, you'll probably need more of a variety and more carbs unless you do alot of root vegetables. I tried when first starting out, but realized I need fruit in the mornings. So I do fruit til lunch, then salads and salads with fat for dinner But if you feel your body needs it try it for a few days and see how it goes, maybe your body just needs some fats right now

We hear about high fruit/low fat all the time, but there may be more ways to do raw. People are so different. Would really love to know if it is possible long term to live on vegetables and nuts.

Most people report difficulty digesting nuts, but they are such a wonderful protein source, there must be a way to enjoy them. On the low fat we can hardly do any nuts and seeds, but I really love them so much.

Personally I am extremely intolerant of fruit. Even the smallest piece, sweet or acid, gives severe bloating and discomfort, and many years of raw vegan have only made the problem worse. By the way, we are into loads of greens, not just fruits. This is the background of my question, but I am not asking for myself, I am really interested in this subject from a scientific point of view.
Can it be done? Has anyone done it over an extended period of time? Is the body able to adjust to low carb/high fat and enjoy good health?

Greenpower

When the body can't tolerate fruit, it can be better to include some cooked starches in your diet and keep the diet low fat than in would be to eat a high fat raw diet.

For example, it seems that a diet of raw vegetables and salads and some steamed root vegetables is going to be much healthier that the standard raw diet with a fat intake in excess of 60% of the caloric intake.

To make the simple cooked diet healthier, eat lots of salads and don't use spices and condiments on your foods.

A lot of people who can't tolerate fruit are able to eat fruit once they regain their health and vitality. And perhaps a simple cooked hygienic diet can get you there.

Quote

Most people report difficulty digesting nuts, but they are such a wonderful protein source, there must be a way to enjoy them.

You can try sprouting & ferment them.

Hi greenpower. I'm kind of the opposite of you. I can eat fruit til it's coming out my ears (and I often do), but for some reason, greens are hard on me.

I find I can easily eat nuts and seeds - and more greens too - when I'm exercising regularly and strenuously, and/or when I do a 36-hour water fast once a week or so. You might try something similar with fruits - if you feel like it.

Nuts and seeds have been a saving grace for me, and I don't see anything wrong with eating them in moderation. Eating nuts/avo/coconuts, etc. in moderation may be more difficult for you, since greens don't have as many carbs as fruits, and you might have to rely more on nuts and seeds to fill your energy needs.

But I don't know that for sure, and I don't know for sure if eating more nuts and seeds would hurt you, if you feel OK when you eat them. So far, there are zero studies (that I'm aware of) that present evidence that consuming more nuts/seeds/avos is harmful. I think this is a question worth exploring. The fact is, we really don't have much science-based evidence for one raw food diet over another. Much of what we assume is based on results from experiments with cooked food diets that are applied to raw in terms of the macronutrients: proteins, fats, carbs. My feeling is that there's such a huge difference between cooked and raw, that we really can't accurately do that, and it's certainly not scientific to assume that we can.

We're pioneers here. We're the guinea pigs. All of us. So, in that spirit, I have some questions for you. Whatever you feel like answering is much appreciated. If you don't feel like answering at all, that's OK too!

Have you tried eating only nuts/seeds/greens? If so, what happens? Do you get hungry/sick/tired? Do you have cravings for carbs - cooked or otherwise?

Do you have cravings for sweets?

Do you ever fast (on water only) for 36 hours + , and if so, have you ever tried eating fruit right after a fast, and does that still make you feel bad?

How do you feel after eating cucumbers or papayas?

How often do you eat cooked food; and when you do, what kind of cooked food do you like to eat, and how does that make you feel?

Whatever the case, I hope you keep us posted!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2009 04:01AM by suncloud.

Suncloud,

Yes we are the guinea pigs, that is how I feel, and somehow it is comforting to know that I am not the only one. I am desperate to try this high nut/seed/green thing because everything else has failed me and I am desperate. We have been doing 6 years of raw vegan, but it has exacerbated my problems and I am in a mess. (Initially we ran too low on B12 but that was solved long ago with supplements, just in case someone thinks there could be a problem there, there isn't)

'Have you tried eating only nuts/seeds/greens? If so, what happens? Do you get hungry/sick/tired? Do you have cravings for carbs - cooked or otherwise?'

I have actually done it for over a month now, and I must say this is absolutely wonderful for my digestive system. Hardly any bloating and discomfort, unbelievable. I try to add green juices for antioxidants, because there are issues with green fiber also, even with lettuce, but I do eat lettuce twice a day to get enough folate.

'Do you have cravings for sweets?'

This is the funny thing, before when eating lots of fruits I would crave sweets so much, but on this regime my taste for sweet fruit has totally gone away. I rather have the salad with lots of fats! If I do take something sweet occasionally I am not even enjoying it.

'Do you ever fast (on water only) for 36 hours + , and if so, have you ever tried eating fruit right after a fast, and does that still make you feel bad?'

I have tried water fasts, juice fasts etc, and the digestive system is at rest during that time, but afterwards the problems get worse, even despite of meticulously reintroducing fruits and whatever.

'How do you feel after eating cucumbers or papayas?'

Wonderful. I am craving them. Eat a lot of cucumber and a little papaya everyday and it does not upset my system.

'How often do you eat cooked food; and when you do, what kind of cooked food do you like to eat, and how does that make you feel?'

Hardly ever. Grains have too much phosphorus which is so difficult to compensate, so I leave them alone. Sometimes I add steamed tough greens from the garden for extra calcium. There is not much calcium in green juice, so the calcium must come from somewhere. Because of the problem with fiber the only option is steaming them. I do not feel any negative effects of that, just hope with time my tolerance for raw fiber will increase.

My average intake of fats has been 120 g per day (carbs 90 g per day, proteins 50 g per day and all nutrients are well covered). This is amazing in itself because before I could not handle much more than 20-30 g of fat without severe indigestion. I am definitely not in top shape, but I wasn't either on the high fruit regimen. My husband says I looked so tired on the high fruit, but that I look a bit better now. I have not lost any weight (don't need to with 55 kg!!!), which indicates that somehow my body is accepting the new type of fuel.

I am really not sure if this is going to work on the long term, but I am desperate. Soaked nuts are definitely much better tolerated. This is a real experiment, because I can not find any other people who have done this.

Greenpower



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2009 05:41AM by greenpower.

Greenpower,

Thanks for filling in some of the details. I think you are doing great. I've plugged my own numbers in and come out usually around 45/45/10 (carb/fat/protein) eating nuts, seeds, greens, roots, fruit and seaweed, all raw except for peanuts:/, and use supplements including salt, and am very lean like you.

Studies like the Harvard nurses study indicate it's not so much the proportions but types of carbs/fats/proteins that count, so they discourage things like pastries and certain animal products.

The Kerala hypertension study is another that indicates positives for coconut meat up to 397 grams/day and suggests limiting 'visible' fat (especially coconut oil) to 4 tbs/day.

The Geissen Germany raw food study of 2005 found their group of about forty 70% plus raw strict vegans averaging around 62/30/8 and doing very well though a little low in HDLs and a little high in homocysteine. The 100% raw vegans tested less well because they tended to avoid all supplements.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2009 01:13PM by loeve.

Loeve,

Thanks! Interesting studies.

How long have you been on this ratio of 45/45/10? Are you doing well? Did you experience any dental problems?

I am inclined to think that the high fat can only work with very low carbs. My goal is 50-60 g carbs max per day, that is sort of managable for me. I have tried to go lower, but that is pretty tough, you can't eat anything any more, and I do need my cucumber and vegetables. You say that the ratio probably does not matter as long as the food is of high quality.

Greenpower

Very interesting discussion, Greenpower and Loeve.

I admire you Greenpower for your thought and effort. I say go for it as long as this is what makes you feel best. I think raw food takes a lot of experimentation for everbody - at least it has for me. And things may (or may not) change over time. Being unsure means you'll be open to changes and new solutions along the way, if those become available. A good thing.

If you don't yet have a regular exercise program that includes strenuous excercise, it's something you might consider. I've noticed that exercise really helps my digestion.

Take care!

Suncloud, I'll second the excercise. That seems to be a key component in a higher sweet fruit diet. Most days I cycle 20 minutes, last Sunday stopping at the water to take a polar plunge in 40 F water which was refreshing, so my health can't be too bad. Today we have snow with 50mph wind gusts so I'll get my excercise from shoveling. Excercise videos are always at hand, Taebo a long time favorite, and can pretty much pick up where I left off except for jogging which has to be eased into.

"How long have you been on this ratio of 45/45/10?"

Greenpower, I've been doing this ratio (more or less) for about 5 years. I hope I've learned to avoid letting acidic food have too much contact with my teeth, but may have overdone acidic garden rhubard last spring. My teeth and gums feel good at the moment but need dental care at some point from years of poor choices.

I say the ratio might not matter as much as the food choices based on the Harvard Nurses and Framingham Health studies where they tracked the diets of great numbers of volunteers over many years. They looked at incidence of things like stroke and cancer.

I think the body is OK with reasonable amounts of raw food fat as found in nuts, seeds, avocados, etc but encounters problems when fats are cooked. Here's an interesting short article about "sticky fats" that speaks to that: [www.miamiyoga.com]

this is not a healthy diet for more than a brief time no matter how much u want to rationalize it. if someone cant tolerate fruit it has nothing to do with the fruit. they have other issues they need to resolve with their health.

Hi know i havent posted in a wile but i needed to say thanks to you Bryan for posting this. It is interesting i am able to tolerate more fruits now than when i started this. i feel that i now can mono eat fruit all at work where there was no way before. great thanks. David klien says that mangos are gut healing so this is what i follow. I hope to learn more and more from Klien as well. thanks for your help Bryan. and everyone for that fact to help me get to this high fruit vegan diet. thanks again.

still working on being IBD free. hope it works now im not using the meds like i was. goo high fruit





Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When the body can't tolerate fruit, it can be
> better to include some cooked starches in your
> diet and keep the diet low fat than in would be to
> eat a high fat raw diet.
>
> For example, it seems that a diet of raw
> vegetables and salads and some steamed root
> vegetables is going to be much healthier that the
> standard raw diet with a fat intake in excess of
> 60% of the caloric intake.
>
> To make the simple cooked diet healthier, eat lots
> of salads and don't use spices and condiments on
> your foods.
>
> A lot of people who can't tolerate fruit are able
> to eat fruit once they regain their health and
> vitality. And perhaps a simple cooked hygienic
> diet can get you there.

Hellokitty,

Mangoes were not gut healing for me! Rather the opposite. And we live in an area where we get delicious ripe mangoes half of the year.

Greenpower