Hey everyone....I have been trying to transition to raw fruits and veggies only. I am an athlete, I train circus skills 4-5 days a week for 4 hours per day and strength train 1-2 times a week for about 1-2 hours. I was curious as to what meal plan you guys suggest. So far I've been eating only fruits during training,(makes me feel lighter) and then after training it has been smoothies of flax, hemp and chia seeds (for the aminos) mixed with fruit and raw oats (for the calories). I find that when I eat only fruits and veggies I always feel a sugar rush which is unpleasant. Plus fruits an veggies have no real amounts of protein.

let me get some feedback

Cheers

Fruits and vegetables do, too, have protein - meaning amino acids. You don't even need to eat the seeds and the oats, which are probably not fully digested and why, when we eat real whole foods the next time, you get what you feel is a sugar rush.

I'd transition to a high fruit low fat diet in which the majority of your calories comes from fruit and you eat plenty of greens. You'll find if you do fitday or some other program, that your protein needs are met, and that people's expectations or assumptions about protein are incorrect.

I hosted 6 young Circus Smirkus performers when they were in town years ago and they weren't picky, in fact the best house guests ever. I would think lentils would be good for protein. I know some gymnasts are into high protein.. something to do with short bursts of power and appetite supression maybe.

Can you suggest specific foods and quantities?

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fruits and vegetables do, too, have protein -
> meaning amino acids. You don't even need to eat
> the seeds and the oats, which are probably not
> fully digested and why, when we eat real whole
> foods the next time, you get what you feel is a
> sugar rush.
>
> I'd transition to a high fruit low fat diet in
> which the majority of your calories comes from
> fruit and you eat plenty of greens. You'll find
> if you do fitday or some other program, that your
> protein needs are met, and that people's
> expectations or assumptions about protein are
> incorrect.


Can you suggest specific foods and quantities?

shteener Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey everyone....I have been trying to transition
> to raw fruits and veggies only. I am an athlete,
> I train circus skills 4-5 days a week for 4 hours
> per day and strength train 1-2 times a week for
> about 1-2 hours. I was curious as to what meal
> plan you guys suggest. So far I've been eating
> only fruits during training,(makes me feel
> lighter) and then after training it has been
> smoothies of flax, hemp and chia seeds (for the
> aminos) mixed with fruit and raw oats (for the
> calories). I find that when I eat only fruits and
> veggies I always feel a sugar rush which is
> unpleasant. Plus fruits an veggies have no real
> amounts of protein.
>
> let me get some feedback
>
> Cheers


The easiest way to add protein from raw whole food is sprouted legumes such as sprouted lentils (one cup has 7 grams of protein and only 70 calories) or sprouted peas (one cup has 11 grams of protein and only 154 calories). Chia seeds are a good choice for the fruits as they help slow down the sugar rush. Best to you in your endeavors.

Paul

One more recommendation, if you can get it, consider buying The Thrive Diet by Brendan Brazier, a vegan triathelete. Some good suggestions there. [www.amazon.com]

chia seeds will inhibit your digestion of the fruit.

i would eat about 3,000 calories of fruit per day. ripe fruit.

Google Tim van Orden - an amazing raw athlete.

i believe vega have a raw protein powder, this would probably be recommended if you strength train properly as your body will be dying for some protein.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chia seeds will inhibit your digestion of the
> fruit.

Chia seed will slow down your digestion of fruit which helps to manage your glycemic load. That's a good thing unless you like high blood sugar spikes.

Paul

Im going to have to agree with Utopian Life in this thread and disagree with all others.

You might find if you drop the seeds from your diet the sugar rush will subside. Also try not eating more that 500cal at a time from fruit (dont load yourself up so much) or whatever you feel comfortable with. I think people should be eating substanial amounts of greens. I think 1 head/bunch per 1000cal of fruit eaten.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i believe vega have a raw protein powder, this
> would probably be recommended if you strength
> train properly as your body will be dying for some
> protein.

I bought it and after taking it for a bit i realized that supplements are definitely not human food. I would rather eat raw fish than some man made supplement.

[runningraw.com]

[www.youtube.com]

these might be of interest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2010 06:10AM by flipperjan.

shteener Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...
> I bought it and after taking it for a bit i
> realized that supplements are definitely not human
> food. I would rather eat raw fish than some man
> made supplement.

The fruit/seed post-workout smoothies sound excellent, the fiber and nutrient complexity of the seeds slowing down the absorption of the fruit sugars.

Workoutman's smaller fruit portion idea is good to avoid sugar rushes.

Chickpeas are 18% protein [www.nutritiondata.com] Hummus made without oil would qualify for a "high protein" meal.

From runningraw.com--

"This is probably the most common question i get, and the answer is that I'm not really that concerned with protein intake. Yes, I do consume some protein in the few hemp seeds and nuts that I eat."

The writer is not "that" concerned with protein, which says to me protein is not totally irrelevant... Nice link.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2010 11:48AM by loeve.

I am suspect that seeds 'slowing' the digestion of fruit are actually inhibiting digestion. Fruit has a quick transit time and that's good, keeping it in there for longer encourages fermentation and rot IMHO.

I think whole food supplements are still food, just dried to concentrate them usually. You could do the same thing at home with a dehydrator but you can also 'supplement' with juices and smoothies where you get an awful lot more fruits and veggies than you could eat in one sitting.

Raw fish, full of bacteria and parasites (cooked is too according to Brian Clement of the Hippocrates Institute). Unless it's irradiated but then that isn't really raw anymore.

Sprouted nut and/or seed pate is so easy to eat and digest and a great source of protein and other nutrients. Nut/seed milk too.

shteener Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...
> and then after training it has been
> smoothies of flax, hemp and chia seeds (for the
> aminos) mixed with fruit and raw oats (for the
> calories).

For smoothie type meals I've used carrots in place of fruit and soaked barley for calories too.

I feel that 7% of calories from protein should be enough for all raw athletes, no matter what sport it is, provided the following two things are in order;

1) You eat enough food in general
2) Your body is clean and and digestion is functioning well

I dont think eating seeds and fruit at the same time is good, it will just impair the digestive process. Juicy greens (celery, lettuce, etc) are the only things you should ever consider combining with fruit. Try one of these for an after workout drink to replenish carbohydrates, electrolytes and amino acids:

1) juice 2 or 3 apples, 8 ribs of celery, and 1/2 bunch parsley
2) juice some greens/celery and blend it with 3 bananas
3) make a smoothie of 2-3 bananas, 1 cup grape juice, 3 strawberries, 3 romaine leaves

shteener Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > i believe vega have a raw protein powder, this
> > would probably be recommended if you strength
> > train properly as your body will be dying for
> some
> > protein.
>
> I bought it and after taking it for a bit i
> realized that supplements are definitely not human
> food. I would rather eat raw fish than some man
> made supplement.

not all supplements are human sythethic made, some are herbal based, food based etc. Some sythethic supplements are actually beneficial also.

vega is mostly composed of foods.

hemp protein powder is also good for the extra protein if needed.

>
> not all supplements are human sythethic made, some
> are herbal based, food based etc. Some sythethic
> supplements are actually beneficial also.
>
> vega is mostly composed of foods.
>
> hemp protein powder is also good for the extra
> protein if needed.


I don't believe in those supplements from personal experience. I only eat whole foods. I believe that if a foods needs to be modified to eat it than is not meant for our species. And the process to remove the protein from the carbs and fats , as is rice protein powders, is dodgy business.

I can respect that. Hemp powder is often made with the cast off shells once the valuable inside seed has been removed but if you wanted to supplement with an actual food, whole hemp seeds are very high in protein, efa's and other nutrients. And of course juices and smoothies, as I mentioned before. You may be supplementing your diet with a concentrated food source in a way, but those aren't supplements.

i eat the hemp rope that holds the trapeze together for breakfast
and the flaxseeds that dot the glimmery cloth that comes down from the ceiling
in other words...

i love circus performances

so gorgeous and stunning

What about eating the apple seeds that are in the apple with the skin and all?

shteener Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > not all supplements are human sythethic made,
> some
> > are herbal based, food based etc. Some
> sythethic
> > supplements are actually beneficial also.
> >
> > vega is mostly composed of foods.
> >
> > hemp protein powder is also good for the extra
> > protein if needed.
>
>
> I don't believe in those supplements from personal
> experience. I only eat whole foods. I believe
> that if a foods needs to be modified to eat it
> than is not meant for our species. And the
> process to remove the protein from the carbs and
> fats , as is rice protein powders, is dodgy
> business.

Shteener,

I very much respect your personal groundrules about whole foods which is why I recommended whole lentil and pea sprouts in my prior post as they are among the most protein dense per calorie whole food available. I do have to ask the question based on your preference for whole foods about how you feel about juicing? It's a form of processing, is it not? Juice is not a whole food. You extract the fiber. Granted, it's minimal processing and something you can do yourself and derive the benefits of fresh. But it's processing nonetheless.

It seems to me that the whole food - processed food discussion is a continuum rather than a discrete category, e.g. juicing, blending, dehydrating all process to some extent but are minimal, something you do yourself, and food you can consume fresh. To me that's different than buying a processed food product from a third party or one where there are additives included.

I suspect most raw fooders don't even think of juicing, blending or dehydrating as processing though they are. But what is the next step? I'd say the protein concentrates which at least for the brand of rice protein I consume [www.amazon.com] are a step further down the road from something you process yourself but not as bad as a highly processed consumer product. The rice protein powder I buy from Nutribiotic is low temperature processed through enyzmatic action. And I am not sure if a similar process is used for hemp protein or not (even eating hulled hemp seeds is a form of processing). But I trust Manitoba Harvest, the company I bulk purchase from for hemp seeds and also purchase hemp protein powder (50 percent, the 70 percent is overpriced). I will inquire and report back.

So, that I'm not misunderstood, I very much respect and understand your line about whole foods. And if you want to stay with it, I'd say that's all to the good. Lentil and mung bean sprouts are easily obtained and consumed and can be blended or dried into forms more easily taken in bulk if that is the goal.

For myself, I have no problem with many of the vegan protein powders out there and only have to look at Brendan Brazier and his accomplishments for my example. [www.brendanbrazier.com]

Best to you and your goals

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2010 02:00PM by pborst.

shteener Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > i believe vega have a raw protein powder, this
> > would probably be recommended if you strength
> > train properly as your body will be dying for
> some
> > protein.
>
> I bought it and after taking it for a bit i
> realized that supplements are definitely not human
> food. I would rather eat raw fish than some man
> made supplement.

I wouldn't. Apart from the ethics of killing animals, fish are among the most contaminated food on the planet. Again, I respect your groundrules, but if you are serious about being vegan, don't do it. I really think you should be just fine with vegan whole foods if it comes to that. Google vegan body building and make your own decision. Don't go fish. My opinion.

Paul

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i believe vega have a raw protein powder, this
> would probably be recommended if you strength
> train properly as your body will be dying for some
> protein.

Thanks, powerlifer, for the affirmation that protein is important.

i like to keep everything to foods as much as possible but the way i look at things is if i eat raw im going to be healthier than eating a SAD diet, but if i add exercise combined with diet im going to be even healthier. Much like if i use adaptogenic herbs, herbs that have researched benefits then i can be even healthier than i am with the above.

raw is good but it shouldnt confine you to not using every beneficial tool for your health in your power IMO.

pborst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> shteener Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > > not all supplements are human sythethic made,
> > some
> > > are herbal based, food based etc. Some
> > sythethic
> > > supplements are actually beneficial also.
> > >
> > > vega is mostly composed of foods.
> > >
> > > hemp protein powder is also good for the
> extra
> > > protein if needed.
> >
> >
> > I don't believe in those supplements from
> personal
> > experience. I only eat whole foods. I believe
> > that if a foods needs to be modified to eat it
> > than is not meant for our species. And the
> > process to remove the protein from the carbs
> and
> > fats , as is rice protein powders, is dodgy
> > business.
>
> Shteener,
>
> I very much respect your personal groundrules
> about whole foods which is why I recommended whole
> lentil and pea sprouts in my prior post as they
> are among the most protein dense per calorie whole
> food available. I do have to ask the question
> based on your preference for whole foods about how
> you feel about juicing? It's a form of
> processing, is it not? Juice is not a whole
> food. You extract the fiber. Granted, it's
> minimal processing and something you can do
> yourself and derive the benefits of fresh. But
> it's processing nonetheless.
>
> It seems to me that the whole food - processed
> food discussion is a continuum rather than a
> discrete category, e.g. juicing, blending,
> dehydrating all process to some extent but are
> minimal, something you do yourself, and food you
> can consume fresh. To me that's different than
> buying a processed food product from a third party
> or one where there are additives included.
>
> I suspect most raw fooders don't even think of
> juicing, blending or dehydrating as processing
> though they are. But what is the next step?
> I'd say the protein concentrates which at least
> for the brand of rice protein I consume
> [www.amazon.com]
> -powder/dp/B0017UXSW4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid
> =1272289811&sr=8-2 are a step further down the
> road from something you process yourself but not
> as bad as a highly processed consumer product.
> The rice protein powder I buy from Nutribiotic is
> low temperature processed through enyzmatic
> action. And I am not sure if a similar process is
> used for hemp protein or not (even eating hulled
> hemp seeds is a form of processing). But I trust
> Manitoba Harvest, the company I bulk purchase from
> for hemp seeds and also purchase hemp protein
> powder (50 percent, the 70 percent is overpriced).
> I will inquire and report back.
>
> So, that I'm not misunderstood, I very much
> respect and understand your line about whole
> foods. And if you want to stay with it, I'd say
> that's all to the good. Lentil and mung bean
> sprouts are easily obtained and consumed and can
> be blended or dried into forms more easily taken
> in bulk if that is the goal.
>
> For myself, I have no problem with many of the
> vegan protein powders out there and only have to
> look at Brendan Brazier and his accomplishments
> for my example. [www.brendanbrazier.com]
>
>
> Best to you and your goals
>
> Paul


I don't juice for the simple reason that i like fiber but i wouldn't call it processing per say, as for blending i have no issues with that. Dehydrating is somewhat cheating if you ask me :-), and for me one of the reasons i love raw is the simplicity, which dehydrating is not.

As for the protein powders, i was taking the same rice protein as you Paul and was getting so much nasty gas even when taking it alone with water. I have stopped the powders and have felt no negative effects only positive ones. It was causing burning while peeing also, which leads me to believe many things are wrong with that whole situation.

We are all humans but each of our bodies is so different. My goal is health and sustainability NOT DOGMA so what work for one is fine with me you know?.

> I don't juice for the simple reason that i like
> fiber but i wouldn't call it processing per say,
> as for blending i have no issues with that.
> Dehydrating is somewhat cheating if you ask me
> :-), and for me one of the reasons i love raw is
> the simplicity, which dehydrating is not.

Understood. Just be aware, some do not consider juice to be a whole food simply because it lacks the fiber.

> As for the protein powders, i was taking the same
> rice protein as you Paul and was getting so much
> nasty gas even when taking it alone with water. I
> have stopped the powders and have felt no negative
> effects only positive ones. It was causing burning
> while peeing also, which leads me to believe many
> things are wrong with that whole situation.

Question, do you experience the same symptoms with either hemp protein powder or pea protein powder? You did right of course to stop those symptoms. Question, dosage? I used no more than one tablespoon per meal. Is that comparable to what caused your symptoms?

> We are all humans but each of our bodies is so
> different. My goal is health and sustainability
> NOT DOGMA so what work for one is fine with me you
> know?.

Agreed on health and sustainability rather than DOGMA (though it was a good Matt Damon flick). Stick with the whole foods then. In addition to the lentil sprouts and pea sprouts, kale juice has 7 grams of protein per serving. Green juices could make a great adjunct to legume sprouts when added to fresh fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds. Best.

Paul

Perhaps the dosage was the problem, but my urologist was very adamant about be not taking them and food extracts or supplements in general.

On a side note my mom has leukemia and her doctor told her not to take supplemental vitamin c but she was allowed to eat as many oranges (or foods containing vitamin c) as she wanted. The reason given was that you could never eat enough oranges to do damage due to excessive vitamin c levels, (perhaps due to the water and fiber content) . All this says something important to me. when we extract micro or macro nutrients we do a few negative things. We concentrate not only the benefits but also the damaging properties inherent in all things. without the inherent protective systems built into the whole food, the water or fiber , we are able to ingest dangerous levels of nutrients. Anything in excess is bad, heck we can overdose on water.

that is the main reason i believe in whole organic foods. Keep eating those in balance and we will never have to worry about excessive nutrient overload.

One thing about balance. my friends old grandmother told him his whole life to eat 20 different things per day. I love that. when i heard it it made so much sense to me.