A vendor was selling his almonds from CA (don't recall the brand). I asked him if they were raw and he gave me a knowing smile and said they were pasteurized.

But here's the kicker: he said that they are only pasteurized for a few seconds and even though the temp is 160 degrees, it's still not enough to kill the enzymes. He said they will still sprout. What do you guys make of this? I have heard of "flash pasteurized" stuff, but always assumed that it rendered the product dead.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2010 10:01PM by banana who.

banana who,

Sounds about right.

For California almonds to be labeled raw they can't be pasteurized all the way through, just the skin. What the Almond Board is looking for is a "4 log" reduction in number of bacteria on the skin only. Some handlers go one better for a 5 log reduction but that means a few more seconds of heat. They will still sprout but the viable % goes down whether 4 or 5 log pasteurized.

..of course the skin is important to the almond as a first line of defense against future invasion by bacteria. It's also attached to the embryonic leaves within so any kind of heat affecting the living skin is going to make for an unhappy almond.

The guy said that almonds are sometimes in the Sun at 120 degrees. Whatever. I know he's selling a product so I took it with a grain of salt. But I am a bit leery about attempting to sprout heat-treated almonds. It just sounds gross to me for some reason.

*Edit: He was trying to equate the pasteurization with the Sun's heat that almonds can be subjected to.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2010 11:51PM by banana who.

Can anyone explain how, that is, where in the chain of processing, almonds become contaminated with the sort of pathogens requiring pasteurization? And as for the sun-induced temps, I wonder how hot the little almonds get in their shells out in the noonday sun? If they get hot enough in shell, why must they then be heated again when shelled? This suggests that the contamination occurs in processing. [ding-ding!]Wait a doggone minute . . .

He's confusing the pasteurization of milk which is done at 161 F for 15-20 seconds with almond pasteurization which can be done with a quick blast with 212 F steam or some such quick heat method followed by quick cooling to minimize the damage.

The almond tree protects its almonds from the sun by the shell and transpiration. Agreed, it's entirely different.

Edit: Almonds can get contaminated from wildlife feces on the almond grove floor. The best way to harvest them is by shaking the tree and catching them in a net but apparently sometimes they reach the ground and are picked up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2010 12:41AM by loeve.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can anyone explain how, that is, where in the
> chain of processing, almonds become contaminated
> with the sort of pathogens requiring
> pasteurization? And as for the sun-induced temps,
> I wonder how hot the little almonds get in their
> shells out in the noonday sun? If they get hot
> enough in shell, why must they then be heated
> again when shelled? This suggests that the
> contamination occurs in processing. Wait a
> doggone minute . . .


Tamu,

There you go "thinking" for yourself again...don't you know the "powers that be" watch for people like you. Don't answer the knock on your door if you see a dark four door sedan pull up with tinted windows & an official looking seal on the door...

We are not supposed to be questing the establishment...

banana who - nice one, questioning the vendor. I will do that sometimes, even though I know the answer, but I like to see them squirm a bit...

I have a lot of almonds in shells at home (probably 15 lb), my wife bought them for me, but I never ate them, thinking that they were pasteurized. I broke a few, and they do feel dry, but edible. She bought them couple of months ago, but they should be still good, I think. I do not know what to do.

Now banana who made me think again...

I will probably try to eat them, but I don't want to eat such a large amount of almonds (it would probably take me a few months) if they are not good for me.

Any advice?

rab,

If they are labeled "organic" and "unpasteurized" you're good to go, IMO.

If they are labeled "organic" and "raw" they could be truly raw or steam pasteurized.

If they are labeled simply "raw" they could be truly raw, steam or PPO pasteurized.

If they are not labeled they could be any of the above, blanched or roasted.

I'm with you and would probably eat them. They're a nice gift...

rab,

I believe almonds inshell are more likely to be untreated than de-shelled ones. The Almond Board writes of the various treatment options as well as "raw" labeling (including a mention of "untreated" almonds). So we know untreated almonds exist in the marketplace. It's just a matter of locating them.

"The FDA has determined that raw almonds, whether treated via the steam or PPO methods or untreated, may be labeled raw under FDA guidelines."

[www.almondboard.com]

Thanks a lot for the advice. The almonds were mixed with walnuts and hazelnuts, which I have eaten meanwhile as they looked untreated and there were fewer of them. I am not sure about the label, I believe that they just had "mixed nuts" sign when my wife bought them.
There is a funny story behind this "gift" - my wife actually wanted to get walnuts only, but a shop assistant saw her and insisted she couldn't do that, but had to buy them mixed. My wife got upset and bought all the nuts they had...bringing several plastic bags filled with nuts home. When they asked her at the register why she needed all these nuts, she just said: "My husband is a squirrel!" )))

rab,

I think I'd like your wife if I met her : )

@Loeve: He did mention the steam. I said 'flash pasteurizing' because I thought it was probably a similar method of very quickly heating something.

@Juicerkatz: He had samples in little cups and I was really curious, given all the hubbub about this topic lately. I mean, it's a greenfest, for Pete's sake! There were several raw vendors (I had a taste of a DIVINE raw brownie, cheezecakey thingie) so it's really not too outrageous for me to wonder about. It wasn't that he was uncomfortable; he expressed the regret that this was even being done. But most people wouldn't think to ask, I guess. That gets me to thinking: I should have looked to see the package and if the almonds were labeled raw! D'oh!

Tamukha, thanks, I was pleasantly surprised too It is not that we have money to throw away (far from it), but she had her moment

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Loeve: He did mention the steam. I said 'flash
> pasteurizing' because I thought it was probably a
> similar method of very quickly heating something.

Oh, good then he's talking about what the Almond Board calls steam pasteurization where only the skin is heated, and he might very well be right about the 160 F temperature since steam can be mixed with cool air to arrive at a desired lower temperature. It's similar to flash pasteurization, I agree.

rab,

Welc' : )