Hi,

I guess I'm a vegan now. I've been without meat, dairy or eggs for the past three weeks. Without salt too. I was having some trouble mentally. And it seems/seemed to be getting progressively worse. I took some salt and this almost instantly improved things. I have been blaming the problem on my Lyme disease. I've been off my antibiotics for three weeks. I've been off everything for three weeks. All medicines. My Lyme can cause some mental problems. And my history is that when I go off the antibiotics after a little while the sickness comes back. So it's easy to blame the lyme. However maybe I have to watch out for B12 also. And that's what brings me to the site.

Since I'm completely without meat or dairy or eggs, do I need to take a B12 supplement? I've done some searching on the computer. I looked at a number of websites. And the issue in my mind is still unclear. There seems to be no plant food that has this B12 vitamin. The sea vegetables seem to be unreliable for this. Some say the sea vegetables could make absorption worse by having useless B12 impostors. Some people use nutritional yeast.Bragg's nutritional yeast seems to indicate that the B12 vitamin comes from the yeast. Others have said that the B12 vitamin only comes from the bacteria. So how could it come from the yeast? Some say that the yeast has been fortified with the bacteria made B-12. So, I could just as easily take a supplement right? But the supplement at the pharmacies have outrageously high doses. Much too high for me. Maybe I should look to fortified cereals. Has anyone seen any out there that provide just a little bit of B12?

How have you guys and gals been dealing with this B12 issue? What do you do if anything to ensure that you're getting enough B12? Maybe you believe it is unnecessary? Maybe you want to tell me to eat dirt which could very well have some B12 in it. Maybe you want to tell me to eat blank because feces has it too. Anyway please help, it really isn't a silly issue. I appreciate any information you might have for me. Or any new studies that have been out. Or just tell me how you guys and gals are dealing with this. Thank you so much for your time. Have a great day.

Steve

Hi. What I do is that I take a sublingual B12 (2000 micrograms) every 1-2 months on an empty stomach. But that's just me, I won't play around with B12 deficiency. It is debatable if seaweed even has B12 in it or just its analogues.

Here is what looks reasonable to me:

[www.living-foods.com]

I supplement. I wouldn't risk this one. If we're not going to eat bugs, eggs and the occasional fellow forest dweller like our primate cousins we've got to get it somewhere else.

Steve,

You may have had deficiencies preceding your dietary changeover[are you under a doctor's care?], and ceasing any medication suddenly could cause awareness problems. It takes a while for B12 deficiency to show up, so unless you had an uptake problem on animal products, it may not be that, or even that bad, if it is a deficiency. Taking a sublingual B12 supplement would be helpful, but considering you have a confirmed diagnosis of Lyme disease, the effects of which are wide ranging and severe in some cases, you should really listen to what your body is telling you about food, rest, and attitude.

Lots of people have been completely off meat and dairy and eggs for years without any problems, so please don't panic! Be sure to eat lots of fresh ripe fruits and vegetables, and healthy fats(like coconut and avocado), to drink purified water and get oxygenating exercise and sunshine(a Vitamin D deficiency is quite common and has a greater impact on mental health in the short term than B12, so maybe get tested). Also, and this is critical for your disorder, rest, rest, rest.

Spend some time looking over old threads at this site; you'll find it very useful and encouraging, I hope : )

lightgreen55 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
>
> I guess I'm a vegan now. I've been without meat,
> dairy or eggs for the past three weeks. Without
> salt too. I was having some trouble mentally. And
> it seems/seemed to be getting progressively worse.
> I took some salt and this almost instantly
> improved things. I have been blaming the problem
> on my Lyme disease. I've been off my antibiotics
> for three weeks. I've been off everything for
> three weeks. All medicines. My Lyme can cause some
> mental problems. And my history is that when I go
> off the antibiotics after a little while the
> sickness comes back. So it's easy to blame the
> lyme. However maybe I have to watch out for B12
> also. And that's what brings me to the site.
>
> Since I'm completely without meat or dairy or
> eggs, do I need to take a B12 supplement? I've
> done some searching on the computer. I looked at a
> number of websites. And the issue in my mind is
> still unclear. There seems to be no plant food
> that has this B12 vitamin. The sea vegetables seem
> to be unreliable for this. Some say the sea
> vegetables could make absorption worse by having
> useless B12 impostors. Some people use nutritional
> yeast.Bragg's nutritional yeast seems to indicate
> that the B12 vitamin comes from the yeast. Others
> have said that the B12 vitamin only comes from the
> bacteria. So how could it come from the yeast?
> Some say that the yeast has been fortified with
> the bacteria made B-12. So, I could just as easily
> take a supplement right? But the supplement at the
> pharmacies have outrageously high doses. Much too
> high for me. Maybe I should look to fortified
> cereals. Has anyone seen any out there that
> provide just a little bit of B12?
>
> How have you guys and gals been dealing with this
> B12 issue? What do you do if anything to ensure
> that you're getting enough B12? Maybe you believe
> it is unnecessary? Maybe you want to tell me to
> eat dirt which could very well have some B12 in
> it. Maybe you want to tell me to eat blank because
> feces has it too. Anyway please help, it really
> isn't a silly issue. I appreciate any information
> you might have for me. Or any new studies that
> have been out. Or just tell me how you guys and
> gals are dealing with this. Thank you so much for
> your time. Have a great day.
>
> Steve

Steve,

First of all, welcome. We are glad you are here. Regarding Vitamin B-12, if you are intent on staying vegan, then yeah B-12 is the big one. Fortunately, there are some easy ways to deal with the issue: 1) supplement and/or 2) test. There isn't yet to my knowledge a reliable whole food vegan source of B-12, though chlorella comes the closest. Chlorella is a green algae that has been shown to contain biologically active b-12 instead of B-12 analogues[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] (looks like B-12 but doesn't work in the human body like b-12). The main impediment in relying on chlorella is that it hasn't been shown to reduce MMA levels in humans which is the benchmark you would want relying on it. For more go here: [www.veganhealth.org]. There are a variety of tests to see if B-12 does what it's supposed to be doing but reducing the risks of B-12 deficiency relies on two tests demonstrating that your B-12 is doing its job. And those are homocysteine and MMA. The tests are better done together rather than in isolation, contrary to the advice to take MMA alone as the gold standard. One researcher at least suggests, that there is no gold standard, which contradicts what I had heard from Jack Norris. [www.clinchem.org]. That's a rarity. Jack's pretty careful. Best to you.

Paul B



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2010 04:46PM by pborst.

Whoops, I contradicted myself. MMA is one test, apparently, to make sure your B-12 source is functioning properly. Homocysteine is the other. apologies for the confusion.

Paul "B", not Paulie, he's the "other" Paul