Want to lose weight? Wonder why diets don't work, Even Raw and Vegan diets?
It may be your Ph level, you may not have the proper combinations of of produce -even if your living and raw!...read more-click on the link below. It's easy once you know!
[ow.ly]

Oh Hi spam.

Even though spam i dont really buy into the whole PH theory myself, the body keeps a very narrow PH and when it goes out of whack you'll know about it acidiosis etc.

So many products such as those alkaline waters which try to manipulate the PH of the digestive tract which should be acidic, it needs to be acidic for digestion aswell as keeping candida in its harmless fungal form.

Even though the real balanced PH is 7.0 (neutral), they have accepted this alkaline blood of 7.4 as "normal". Below 7.0, blood is acidic and not healthy. A little above 7.0 is probably fine, but 7.4 definitely is too alkaline.

I read this logic somewhere and it looks correct to me.

The pH of the body is complex, so you have blood with a normal range of about 7.35-7.45, the kidneys with normal function producing urine about 4.5-8. The blood is the most tightly regulated like RaysofLight says in the article. The body will do anything it can to keep the blood in that narrow range. Otherwise "your dead". BTW, I'm starting to sort of like the way the young people spell "you're".

The Ph is very important to your body's functioning. When my father corrected his Ph he lost cancer. I don't subscribe to anything that comes in a box, container, bottle, bag or can. One must eat living whole foods in proper combination to have true health. www.LivingFoodVillage.com may help you to understand better. Blessings

Ok, let's get things straight here so everyone is comparing apples to apples.
The Ph that is referred to is the metabolic waste from a cellular level, not gross functioning of the stomach. When we eat food, digestion begins in the mouth. We have many different digestive enzymes that help break down that food so our body may assimilate the nutrients. When it enters our stomach-our stomachs contain hydrochloric acid.
After it passes throw our stomachs-it enters out small intestines. The villi grab the nutrients from the chyme. Chyme is produced by mixing food from the oesophagus with acids from the stomach to produce a thick semi-liquid. Secretion of hydrochloric acid by the stomach makes the chyme strongly acidic. The rhythmic muscular action of the stomach wall (peristalsis) moves the chyme into the duodenum, the first section of the small intestine, where it stimulates the release of secretin, a hormone that increases the flow of pancreatic juice as well as bile and intestinal juices. Chyme also stimulates the release of cholecystokinin, a hormone that primarily increases the flow of bile but also increases the proportion of digestive enzymes in the pancreatic juice.
So obviously, we need certain aspects of our bodies to be acidic-so they may function and do their jobs properly.
I believe many don't understand the "ph" element due to the apples and oranges effect of comparison.
After your blood distributes/circulates the nutrients., there is a waste product- all the cells in your body absorb what they need-imagine every cell in your body having little digestion systems-because they do! Every cell will produce waste which is either an alkaline ash waste or acidic waste-THIS IS the Ph Effect- that is necessary to understand. It is NOT isolating organs of your body, herein lies the confusion.
This is why people cannot lose weight. A body will grab excess metabolic acidic waste and encase it with fat to protect it from harming vital organs.
I hope this helps shed some light. Peace

RasysofLight,

Thanks for the informative article but we are not pH authorities are we? Otherwise we could agree on how to write "pH". We have discussed it many times on this board and I think we're beyond thinking of it as purely a digestive issue. While I appreciate the pH message of those like Robert O. Young we've seen some questionable teachings like Young telling us we are acidic if our urine is less than pH 6.8, and his offering of all kinds of products to correct this "problem".

Your message is different though. I see that and appreciate it.

peace to you

Oh, and the image of cells as having digestive systems is right on. We just had a discussion of lysosomes and lytic vacuoles and their use by the cells of animals and plants in the cell's digestion and repair mechanisms. The cell would be basic (7.4 +/-) except for that pocket of acidity, no?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2010 07:17PM by loeve.

...I was talking about Ph level of blood.

Edited 3 times? What?
loeve~

I do not believe necessarily in the teachings of that man you mentioned, I will not even dignify him to write his name, as much good as he does as to teaching others important information-he is bought and owned by the all mighty $. His packaged products are processed and acidic. His extracts are pieces and parts. I have gotten "into it with him more than once". I'm unimpressed with his mail order classes/PhD/Dr. Bs to fool the masses. The average consumer-just believes in everything he endorses. While his teachings have value-those products of "his" are part of the Billion Dollar Industry of Nutritional Supplements-which I don't prescribe. And he is taking it all to the bank.
I respectfully disagree with you. Not everyone has read every post here. So my information is for everyone in general, please, keep that in mind. Your comment on "we" is odd-I don't know anyone here personally and don't feel I have to be "qualified" as an authority to speak my truth. Am I an authority? Yes, I am. I live what I say, I experience that which I say and take that for what it is worth or leave it. However, I could do exactly what that guy you mentioned did and buy a degree from a "mail order school". I'm not impressed with credentials. I'm impressed with experiences by people that have had success-degree or no degree typos or no typos. What's is the message? Is that guy you mentioned making millions- the authority you believe people need? I highly think not. I try to keep it real. I try to live and be honest with what I know and have found to be of positive benefit in my life. I have seen cures when people I personally know do what I know to work, which is the Ann Wigmore philosphy. Rise above.

The general messages (from many sources) on "potential of hydrogen" is a mixed bag of nuts.
It's a bit nit picky to look at PH, Ph, pH, it all stands for the Potential of Hydrogen. I'm not addressing grammar.

Potential of Hydrogen is not isolated. It is indicative of one's entire balance. You cannot isolate one piece or a part of your body. Thus, the problem with scientific medicine, everything is taken away from and separated. The body's a divine mechanism. Every aspect of it functions in collaborative effort. We are hard wired for survival. That's (thinking of isolated pieces and parts) society/or the "machine" getting to you. They have inculcated us since we were in grade school and old enough to learn- to isolate and remove from the whole-pieces and parts of our body-that's what helps the billion dollar industry of "ill care".
The bottom line is that when you properly combine organic, living, raw food, you are in alignment with the source of all that is and once in that divine alignment, changes for the better transpire.
Here's to Your Health!

Well, then, case and point for loeve. It means something different to many different people. Thanks for the clarification.

RaysofLight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Edited 3 times? What?
> loeve~
>
> I do not believe necessarily in the teachings of
> that man you mentioned, I will not even dignify
> him to write his name, as much good as he does as
> to teaching others important information-he is
> bought and owned by the all mighty $...

There's an edit function which appears benieth a new post which gives you about 15 minutes to go back and edit what was just written. "Vacuole" looked a lot better to me than "vavuole", and I then remembered your point about pH at the cellular level and so added that. People who give prompt replies are sometimes surprised to see previous posts edited or even find "delete" substituted.

My mother gave me her copy of The pH Miracle by Robert O. Young, after having been inspired by it herself. His claim that cancer can't exist in an alkaline state was a revelation to me though I never went for his products and find his urine pH information simply wrong. He's a descendant of Brigham Young and so maybe super achieving is in his blood, in some ways at our expense.

loeve,

Google Otto Warburg on more info re: alkalinity and oncogenesis. Also, please resist the urge to be delighted by "your" where "you're" is indicated. We all make mistakes, especially in the throes of a frenetic thread, but the abuse of "your" isn't cute!

RaysofLight,

Thanks for your passionate posts--food for thought

I wasn't being sarcastic, I really do sort of like "your" as an alternative to "you're". Maybe it's because I took a shorthand class in high school. It might have to wait a generation for the mainstream dictionaries to accept it.

..more on words -

What's the plural of "you"? Depending on the English dialect how about -

y'all
you-all
you guys
you lot
youse
yous
youse guys
yous guys
you-uns/yinz

[en.wikipedia.org]

There was a time when "you" was plural and the singular was "thou". We could go back to thou and you. I wonder what Miss Manners would say.

RaysofLight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...I'm unimpressed with his mail
> order classes/PhD/Dr...

Well, what tipped me off eventually is the little things like Robert Young's opinion that the ideal blood pH was 7.365. Noone with a formal education in science would use that many significant figures because it would follow that the ideal blood pH range was 7.3645 to 7.3655 which is an extraordinarily narrow pH range, just impossibly precise. I might give him 7.37, slightly more acidic than the general population for whatever reason but that forth significant figure is one too many.

"Just as our body temperature must be maintained at 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit, our blood is ideally maintained at 7.365 pH--very mildly basic. (A mainstream doctor would accept up to 7.4, but that's problematic...)" The pH Miracle, p. 13.

loeve,

So what does that mean about Young's recommendation? It isn't possible to home test one's pH range to the third decimal.

Miss Manners would accept "you[pl.]" and "thou[sg.]" . . . if we were Quakers

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So what does that mean about Young's
> recommendation? It isn't possible to home test
> one's pH range to the third decimal.
I would guess he's saying our pH should be
slightly on the acid side of 'normal'. It would be great
if we could read our pH to 4 significant figures. My
Litmus Paper is good to get it to two......WY

Urine, saliva or drinking water can be home tested roughly, true. Blood is difficult to measure and I seriously doubt a lab would print a result with 4 significant figures, i.e. 7.365. Here are some human tissues with their respective pH --

pH in living systems

Compartment/pH

Gastric acid 1
Lysosomes 4.5
Granules of chromaffin cells 5.5
Human skin 5.5
Urine 6.0
Cytosol 7.2
Cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) 7.3
Blood 7.34–7.45
Mitochondrial matrix 7.5
Pancreas secretions 8.1

[en.wikipedia.org]

.. 3 significant figures is as high as they go here.

Ahh, Miss Manners wouldn't forget the Quakers.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2010 03:43PM by loeve.

I find it extraordinary, that he is even given this much latitude. He is a guy who had a MLM company. He claims he sold it. He was run out of Utah and went to California because he feels he could get away with more of "his work" there. He's been is serious lawsuits. He's basically a scam artist. His potential of hydrogen theory-is NOTHING he solely discovered (ok, maybe he did is own discovery)...Dr. Gerson and Dr. Ann Wigmore did this long before him. They are 2 REAL doctors and he's just a wanabe who bought his credentials on line-I don't care for him at all-I am very bias. He simply found a gimmick that "hungry people" buy, hook, line and sinker. His products (with a giant picture of him and his wife) contradict his own book! I doubt he is a descendant of BY. Young is a very common name, I've read he isn't. But he is a marketing genius and he does have some valid points. Your urine isn't indicative of anything other than what your body is eliminating. If it's acidic urine, that means your body is doing it's job.

This "goofball" told me my list of acidic and alkaline foods was a "horrible list"-was I concerned? Yes, did I check and re check and double check? Yes. Did I look at the source who told me that? YES! Did he stand to profit? YES! The reason he said that was because the very products he sells are pieces and parts and not whole food sources. I have some of the very same products he sells as being acidic. When confronted, he hide, haven't heard from him since. One example: Avocado oil = Acidic - take the oil out of the avocado -not in it's "whole food" form, it's imbalanced, thus, acidic. The Title of my article: "Everything You Need to Know About Alkalizing Foods and What to Avoid"-gives straight, easy info and a simple list to assist folks-it's FREE! No book to buy or products-hard to make money on the truth. ;D Provided is a link should anyone desire to check it out...
[ow.ly]

RaysofLight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...I doubt he is a
> descendant of BY...

Brighamyoungfamily.org claims Robert Oldham Young as a fifth generation descendant --

2015. Robert Oldham Young.

Robert Oldham Young and Shelley Annette Redford had the following children:

4534
i.
Adam Redford Young.
4535
ii.
Ashley Rose Young.
4536
iii.
Andrew Redford Young.
4537
iv.
Alex Redford Young.

[brighamyoungfamily.org]

Love her but she was not a doctor by any stretch of the imagination.

"Wigmore claimed to have a Doctor of Divinity (DD) from the College of Divine Metaphysics in Indianapolis. She also listed a Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) and a Doctor of Naturopathy (ND) degree at different times. None of her credentials appear to have been from accredited schools."

Ann Wigmore was a lovely earnest person, I'm sure, but some of the stuff in her writings is groundbreaking and other stuff is nonsense[as far as objective science goes].

The thing that is troubling about pH this and that is that, while it's true that the body has very subtle recalibration systems, frequently the first sign one receives of these systems' having gone awry is when one suddenly gets a leukemia diagnosis. It's way past time for something to have stood as evidence of incipient disorder and if blood pH is so controversial, well, we are largely shooting in the dark.

"Importance of pH

"Maintaining the human body’s pH is extremely important. The pH of the human bloodstream is approximately 7.4. If the pH of the bloodstream increases or decreases by just a small amount, we die. Luckily, we store calcium, magnesium and other minerals in our bones that are used to buffer the acidity of our bloodstream. Our diet SHOULD be composed of about 80% alkaline-forming foods and 20% acid-forming foods. The standard American diet (SAD) is reversed at about 80% acid-forming and 20% alkaline-forming. The acid condition in the body that the SAD diet causes pulls calcium out of our bones to buffer the acidity of the bloodstream and can lead to osteropenia or osteoporosis. As has been proven frequently, the answer is not more calcium, but rather a proper diet."

[www.livingfoodvillage.com]

Very good revision, thanks for listening.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2010 10:25AM by loeve.

loeve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...Here are some
> human tissues with their respective pH --
>
> pH in living systems
>
> Compartment/pH
>
> Gastric acid 1
> Lysosomes 4.5
> Granules of chromaffin cells 5.5
> Human skin 5.5
> Urine 6.0
> Cytosol 7.2
> Cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) 7.3
> Blood 7.34–7.45
> Mitochondrial matrix 7.5
> Pancreas secretions 8.1
>
> [en.wikipedia.org]
>

"Compartments" is the term the article actually uses, which is much better than my "human tissues". Even cells are compartmentalized so while the bulk of the cell might be slightly alkaline the lysosomes have a pH of about 4.5.

RaysofLight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...But he is a marketing genius
> and he does have some valid points. Your urine
> isn't indicative of anything other than what your
> body is eliminating. If it's acidic urine, that
> means your body is doing it's job...

Urine pH is something that can be easily home tested. Someone flirting with acidosis might have urine consistently <pH 4.5 ? That's also a signal that a doctor might pick up on in a urinalysis. The lungs, kidneys, etc. might not be able to handle the acid load and so buffers are leached from the bones. It's more likely to be the case on the standard western diet. Rawists tend to have higher urine pH ?, some consistently above 7 but there's no need for concern if getting readings in the 5-7 range, IMO.

People who have experienceed symptoms of acidity might be drawn to the pH message (I was), that of eating more alkalizing foods like fruits and veggies. There are useful charts and tests to monitor how your doing. There are also some questionable teachings and products out there.

loeve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> ...but there's no need for concern if getting
> readings in the 5-7 range, IMO.
>

-rather, there's no need for concern if urine pH is in the 4.5-8 "normal" range, IMO. I just take note when consistently at the low end of that range.

loeve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>...how your doing.

I swear this just rolled off the keyboard.

loeve,

Oh noooooo! They got to you!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2010 01:37PM by Tamukha.

I've heard "we are all" at least 33rd cousins too...and we're probably related to BY too somewhere down a line.