As well worn a subject this is, it's still very difficult to get decent, accurate info. Is soy milk good or bad? And more specifically, by bad I mean destructive. For example, if I buy sweetened soy milk, I don't mind the extra calories-everything in moderation, right? That's not bad to me-unless there are toxicities in the sweetening agents. I consider Carrageenan destructive, bad.
It seems that there are many healthy, educated, non-dairy-propagandist vegans who still warn against soy milk, or any soy in general that is not fermented. perfect example? this is a quote that piqued my interest.

"Soy milk: Unhealthy in all circumstances. Unfermented soy is loaded with anti-nutrients, phytoestrogens, will block absorption of critical vitamins and minerals by your body, and to get it in a nice liquid form, they use benzene and other harsh chemical substances in the production process.
Would also like to emphasize that soy in all forms except fermented, such as miso or tempeh, is bad, bad, bad for the body."

The funny part about this is that I just spent time reading about how soy milk provides critical vitamins and aids in vitamin/supplement absorption.

I'm looking to coconut milk or rice milk-(hate almonds so no almond milk).

I also am sick of the polarity-conspiracy theorist borderline ppdisorders talking of the stalin that is the dairy industry poisoning us with milk VS condescending apes who falate the fda while dismissing any belief that wasn't held true in 50's america.
I find most info from these 2 archetypes to be toxic.
(I wish more western doctors were as enlightened as some of the posters on this forum, btw)

I hope this promotes healthy, nutrient filled dialogue beyond my question.

I think the reason so many of these things are contradictory is because what works for one may not work for all. Only you can decide if something is good for you, makes you feel good, works with everything else you're doing etc.

Here's a great 3 part video on how to determine if something is really healthy or not, I enjoyed watching this the other day.
[www.youtube.com]

I think it's all a matter of moderation and the right brands. I am weaning myself from soy because I think I get too much but I can give you some brands that I feel are more "pure" and better than others. (Oh and I tried that coconut milk crap and found it very nasty. I think I threw it out. I also don't like rice but that's my opinion, obviously.) I like the Eden company and their UNfortified rice/soy milk because most soymilk adds inorganic calcium and other stuff and I don't feel that's healthy. Plus it's sweetened by amazaki, which is condensed rice, if I'm not mistaken. My other fave brand is Westsoy organic plain. But it's the one that is not fortified. It is very rich and sweetened with brown rice syrup so it doesn't feel too glycemic. But you have to make sure it's the right one because I don't like their fortified ones. Totally different flavor and doesn't taste "clean" to me. If you ever want almond milk, I highly suggest making it yourself, even if you have to settle for pasteurized almonds! I have found the boxed version awful-tasting (again, just my opinion) and nothing compared to fresh. It's very easy to make.

I find all the market varieties of rice or soy milk ive tried taste to sweet for me... have not had coconut milk, I did read a study awhile ago that stated that they found that unfermented soy products actually reduced ones ability to absorb protein, or something like that, I'll look around for it and see if I can find it again... Personally though, I prefer just making rice milk at home when I feel like i want something milk-esqe...

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

What about using hemp mild?

here's a raw hemp milk recipe; Raw Hemp Milk Recipe.

Here's some hemp nog:


Hemp Nog

For 1 serving:

1/4 cup hemp seeds
5-6 dates
1 banana
dash of nutmeg
dash of vanilla
12 oz water

If you don't have a powerful blender (like a VitaMix), you will need to grind the hemp seeds first in coffee grinder. Soft dates like Barhi wetpacks work well, but if you are using a drier date, the dates need to be soaked in water for an hour or so until they are soft. Blend all ingredients and serve.

Prana, can you recommend a good brand of hemp seeds? I find them unpleasant and like sesame seeds, bitter.

curator how do you make the rice milk?
Thank you very much

I've been using the non-organic hemp seeds from Manitoba Harvest, which I like the taste. They also have organic ones, for a higher price.

Merry, I do something people aren't fond of on here, I cook it the normal way, let it sit over night in the fridge, then I boil it again in the same amount of water I used the first time till it turns to mush, then I let it sit a couple hours, then blend a cup of it with maybe 3 cups of water, and strain that out through cheese cloth, and add whatever sweetener I want, the rest of the rice mush goes in the fridge till I want to make more rice milk... its really allot of effort, im sure there are better ways, but i dunno why, I kind of enjoy it... and it hasnt really bothered me as of yet, so I haven't really looked for a better way,lol

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

ive been getting mine from [buyhemphearts.com] rocky mountain hemp .. ive never had any bitter hemp seeds in fact they are very nutty and almost slightly sweet always

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Here is an article i did on soya and the myths - [vegankingdom.co.uk]

Apparently soya is a noxious plant, although cooking, and even soaking a number of times removes the toxins. I agree that most soya milks are too sweet, but some of the more natural ones aren't too bad. I tell you though, you won't drink soya milk without some form of sweetner, as it's bitter as hell haha.

Jodi, I remember that company from BC. I never bought their hemp because it's just kept out on the shelf in those yogurt type tubs. Hemp without it's shell oxidizes very quickly rendering the essential oils useless or even harmful to consume. I never understood why they used that packaging and why they were so careless with storage. What's your take on that?

oh i didnt know they were from bc i thought they were from alberta or sask or something ..

not sur coco .. i buy it locally at my healthfood store and its always in the fridge there .. perhaps they cought on to the oxidation thing early and recommended resellers refrigerate it ive been buying them from the same place for 5 years with no troubles ... they do have a best before date but a lb. rarely lasts long enough around here to ever hit that date

i think the co. has been around since around 2002-3 ?

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Good to know! I'll reconsider ordering from them if they will arrive cold... I don't know where they are from but I remember seeing them for sale in BC, never here though. It's all manitoba harvest in this neck of the woods.

Basically regardless of the health of the soy or rice itself, these are cooked foods. So they will act toxicly on the body whether they HAVE tozins in them or not. The body will have to battle and use calcium from your bones to neatralize the acidity the cooked food creates. And your body will react to the cooked food by sending out white blood cells, and also will stimulate your blood being in a composting state which leads us into cancer and every other disease. We, on this forum, reccomend pure, raw foods........So at all costs for your health I think you should figure out which raw milk you DO like. Sometimes the problem is not a matter of which one you like, but more the fact that you haven't suffered long enough to make a new spot in your heart for a new flavor. Meaning, try going 2 weeks without any milk, then try making some fresh, raw soaked almond milk, or hemp milk, or hazelnut milk, or sunflower seed milk, or almond butter milk, or fresh coconut milk made from young thai coconuts!!!!!! These will keep your blood healthy, and won't promote evil rot in your body!!!!
Prana's recipe sounds dank!

The Raw Lion 440 pounds to 225 pounds!

Thanks, Jodi, I never heard of that brand before! I'm gonna check it out. Prana, I tried a sample of the brand you use and talked with the sales rep at a green fest this summer. I was disappointed in the fact that I had a bitter aftertaste after she went on and on about how fresh these are. Perhaps I am more sensitive to it than others? I don't care for bitter things but with dandelion and raddichio I understand that they are liver cleansers and full of iron + other minerals. However, with seeds I get concerned about possible oxidation issues.

i wonder if the bitter taste comes from the husk .. seeing as how im getting the ones without .. hmm

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Well, I have tried soaking unhulled sesame seeds and then blending them and it does seem that it isn't as bitter but there still is some. I am wondering if these seeds are so delicate that they go rancid quite quickly and need vacuum packaging plus being put in a fridge or freezer...

i dont know .. ive always kept my nuts in the fridge or freezer or in cold storage in basement (if they still have shells on)


ive never had a problem with rancid or bitter seeds/nuts ... around here (vancouver, bc, canada) walnuts and hazelnuts are the local nuts .. pumpkin seeds in abbundance if you tap all yer friends halloween pumkin sources everything else is imported

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

banana who Wrote:
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> Well, I have tried soaking unhulled sesame seeds
> and then blending them and it does seem that it
> isn't as bitter but there still is some. I am
> wondering if these seeds are so delicate that they
> go rancid quite quickly and need vacuum packaging
> plus being put in a fridge or freezer...

YES definately for hemp. That's why I only buy seeds that are stored in the fridge at the store or shipped to me cold. Sesame in the hull might still be ok, I don't know.
Hemp does have an aftertaste, I don't find it bitter though. If you don't like it your mouth might be telling you not to eat it right now. Maybe try chia for now and hemp again at another date.

Soy milk is generally safe as is soy in general when consumed in moderate amounts. [www.veganhealth.org]

i find commercial soy milk kinda nauseating but i make my on in a soybella ... from my own non GMO openpollinated soybeans i grow .. fresh seems to make a difference in this case as far as palatability goes

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Hmm that's a good point Rawlion

I dont know about cooked rice being toxic....I kind of doubt it...I don't at the moment plan to give it up so I could sometimes make rice milk from it...
I live in a country where the vast majority of people could never afford to eat the kind of diets some people here are eating.only the 10 oranges / bananas etc. a day for all the family would cost many people much more than their entire daily salary .

So most people eat rice morning noon and night which is affordable.And usually white rice. And I don't see that their health is that bad and in fact I know of many energetic even old people with few problems on such a diet. I am feeling very happy with my new higher raw eating but I guess I want to keep things in perspective....

I think thats a good way to look at it merry, and I happen to agree with you, something not being optimal does not make it "poison" but many feel that way, and thats ok if they do... but in the mean time, I will continue to eat within my means, which includes a large amount of cooked rice and beans,lol...

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Merry, I totally agree with you. When I went to Puerto Rico, the people eat a fairly limited diet: white beans and rice sometimes two times a day. Breakfast is usually cafe (mmm...you haven't had coffee unless you have fresh-roasted from homegrown beans) and white flour crackers or fresh white bread (like French bread type). Now this was 25 years ago so they may well have a lot of fast food these days (they had some back then, too, in the cities). A bit of codfish with olive oil, plantains, yautia (starchy root veggie) and other similar potato-like tubers, and occasionally a fresh chicken. Fruits rotted on the ground because it seemed to me that people viewed them the way we view crab apples. But when they come to the Mainland, they get diabetes in high numbers. Their diet must change, to some degree. Perhaps they also consume more. But simple diets are best, even when they are not what raw fooders or other whole foods would consider optimal

Yes, I also agree. However, culture underpins dietry habits, and of course the introduction of processed foods has a negative health effect. A classic example are Indigenous Australians, who, while generally included 30% to 40% animal products in their diet. Once introduced to a Western ways, they became obese and sedentary. I don't know much concerning Indigenous Americans, though I would think the same would apply, yes?

Really, most of us are in a luxurious position to be able to choose our foods. So, I believe the most important factors are; to avoid processed food, and to limit consumption ( I eat to live, I don't live to eat).