Here is a vid I did today.
[www.youtube.com]

Really good vid, Harley; thanks for posting

Im still of the belief like the other post or was it a video i cant remember, you can gain weight with any food in an excess of calories. If this is the case then your going back on your beliefs that fruitarians and 80/10/10ers can bodybuild, if they cant gain weight with fruit then bodybuilding will be impossible.

Its all fine if your doing an hour and a half cardio like yourself a day but many wont be.

Eating only fruit is actually contrary to the 80/10/10 plan. I guess you haven't read it?

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eating only fruit is actually contrary to the
> 80/10/10 plan. I guess you haven't read it?

did you just purposely not read my post or something i said fruitarian or 80/10/10 which is largely based around getting your calories mostly from fruit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2011 05:09PM by powerlifer.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
if they
> cant gain weight with fruit then bodybuilding will
> be impossible.



seems to assume that all they eat is fruit and "can't gain weight" because of it.

I was talking about fruitarian at that point but either way when around 80% of your calories likely come from fruit and only a small portion being from other foods then what durian is saying means they'd likely not gain weight.

Im of the opinion that you can gain weight on any diet so i do believe its possible, how much calories you'd need to resemble a cooked vegan diet using mostly fruits who knows.

powerlifer,

I am of the belief that, given a mostly raw diet, it would be impossible to gain significant weight on high fruit. This is what Harley is refering to in his vid: weight loss program wisdom seems to categorically ward against high fruit consumption on the premise that it will cause one to gain weight. I believe it will precisely because the majority of the diet plan consists of cooked food, including "low fat" and "fat free" phoods[with a p-h 'cos it's made in a lab] that, with the addition of lots of fructose, would likely cause great metabolic confusion. And that's an honest premise--they are formulating these diet plans without any conception of raw foodism or high raw foodism in mind.

I am truly starting to think that the accepted concepts about nutrition probably have no bearing, generally, on the raw food vegetarian regimen, because conventional nutrition is based on cooked food.

Weight Watchers assigns fruits a 0 point value and encourages members to eat more fruit. If anything, they support rather than contradict what Harley and his supporters are saying.

Quote
http://www.weightwatchers.com/util/art/index_art.aspx?tabnum=1&art_id=105421
Enjoy the fact that fruits have a PointsPlus value of 0, but don’t go completely crazy. Only 10 percent of Americans eat the recommended amount of fruit, so most of us are not at risk of eating too much fruit on the new program. However, if you already eat a lot of fruit each day, doubling or tripling that will result in slower weight loss. When in doubt, use common sense, listen to your body’s signals (eat some fruit because you’re truly hungry, not because you can), and avoid mindless grazing (one of my personal pitfalls).

veghunter,

Weight Watchers almost doesn't count--they're more like sensible eating rather than a weight loss plan, although that's their original purpose. What occurred to me in watching the video was things like the South Beach Diet, Nutrisystem, or worse, the Atkins Diet, which, like a bad penny, keeps resurfacing. I have seen about ten commercials for the Atkins Diet in the past week, featuring that Courtney Thorne-Smith actress and implying that it can be done permanently[!]. I have a feeling that it's a campaign in direct opposition to WW.

My mom is doing wieght watchers right now, fruit counts, veggies don't.

I brought it up because it's the one Harley targets it by name in his video and doesn't mention some of the programs more relevant to his point like Atkins, Weston-Price, and Mercola. I just think that better aim would be good when throwing slings and arrows.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My mom is doing wieght watchers right now, fruit
> counts, veggies don't.

She might need to update her plan.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer,
>
> I am of the belief that, given a mostly raw diet,
> it would be impossible to gain significant weight
> on high fruit. This is what Harley is refering to
> in his vid: weight loss program wisdom seems to
> categorically ward against high fruit consumption
> on the premise that it will cause one to gain
> weight. I believe it will precisely because the
> majority of the diet plan consists of cooked food,
> including "low fat" and "fat free" phoods that,
> with the addition of lots of fructose, would
> likely cause great metabolic confusion. And
> that's an honest premise--they are formulating
> these diet plans without any conception of raw
> foodism or high raw foodism in mind.
>
> I am truly starting to think that the accepted
> concepts about nutrition probably have no bearing,
> generally, on the raw food vegetarian regimen,
> because conventional nutrition is based on cooked
> food.

Yeah i agree with alot of that, and that fruit shouldnt be spared on weight loss diets, it should be encouraged.

But calories are calories and i believe an excess if sedantary would or should cause weight gain, if 2000 calories isnt really 2000 calories to a fruitarian then what is there 2000 calories if you get what i mean. Is it 4000 calories etc

She just started it, fruit counts, veggies don't. she's using the updated points system.

Powerlifer- It more or less says in the china study that people with a high corbohydrate (low fat) diet will tend to burn excess calories as heat rather than store them as fat.

Not to critizise you, but if you haven't tried low fat raw, than you may be doubtfull. If you eat low fat raw, you become lean, plain and simple. It dosen't matter what all the theorys say, thats what happens. You dont get fat.

I eat the same number of calories as I did before LFRV, and I am much leaner, but just as muscular, in fact I haven't lost any muscle, so I think theres more to body weight than calories!

The truth behind body fat is PROLONGED ELEVATED BLOOD SUGAR. The people who are lean, either eat high carb and low fat, or high fat and low carb (atkins) because fat in the blood reduces insulins effectiveness.

Also if your pancreas/adreanals are still in good shape, then you can process sugar better in the pressence of fat and someone who eats an equal portion of fat and carb may still be lean. But will their glands last forever?? Not likely.

Check again.

Enjoy the fact that fruits have a PointsPlus value of 0, but don’t go completely crazy. Only 10 percent of Americans eat the recommended amount of fruit, so most of us are not at risk of eating too much fruit on the new program. However, if you already eat a lot of fruit each day, doubling or tripling that will result in slower weight loss. When in doubt, use common sense, listen to your body’s signals (eat some fruit because you’re truly hungry, not because you can), and avoid mindless grazing (one of my personal pitfalls).
[www.weightwatchers.com]


The new plan, company officials say, is based on scientific findings about how the body processes different foods. The biggest change: All fruits and most vegetables are point-free (or free of PointsPlus, as the new program is called). Processed foods, meanwhile, generally have higher point values, which roughly translates to: should be eaten less.
[www.nytimes.com]

Apples are getting a big fat zero. Ditto grapes. Yesterday, Weight Watchers unveiled an updated version of their Points system, slashing the number on most fruits and vegetables. Now everything from pomegranates to bananas won't make a dent on a dieter's daily Points.
[shine.yahoo.com]


Wondering what to eat? Fresh fruit get a big fat zero in the new points system! Though don't go nuts, the company says. If you eat a ton of fruit you won't lose weight as fast. But that's probably not a big risk since most Americans aren't eating enough fruit anyway.
[www.npr.org]

workoutman, ive tried various low fat diets over the years including raw and never got on well, part of the problem was likely my adrenal glands before i healed them.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> workoutman, ive tried various low fat diets over
> the years including raw and never got on well,
> part of the problem was likely my adrenal glands
> before i healed them.

Yes, I agree. That is probably the problem of alot of people who dont get the expected results with LFRV. Glandular weaknesses are one of the major causes of health issues besides congestion/toxicity. We need to focus on both. I think perhaps one of the greatest errors of Hygiene has been shunning herbs. Herbs kick ass!

WorkoutMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > workoutman, ive tried various low fat diets
> over
> > the years including raw and never got on well,
> > part of the problem was likely my adrenal
> glands
> > before i healed them.
>
> Yes, I agree. That is probably the problem of
> alot of people who dont get the expected results
> with LFRV. Glandular weaknesses are one of the
> major causes of health issues besides
> congestion/toxicity. We need to focus on both. I
> think perhaps one of the greatest errors of
> Hygiene has been shunning herbs. Herbs kick ass!

I fully agree man, its shocking that modern medicine doesnt attribute poor adrenal gland function to chronic fatigue syndrome, the crazy bit is many symptoms that they say are part of CFS such as orthostatic hypotension such as dizziness upon standing are caused by the adrenal glands. But meh i guess like all illness we cant count on them.

Herbs are great if it wasnt for the adaptogen herbs i would still be lying in my bed for 12 hours a day, they were 2 of the hardest years of my life, my adrenals were so weak that i had multiple chemical sensitivities/allergies if i even encountered dust or many foods id be sent to sleep.

I still remember one summer everyone including some of my family were giving me lots of trouble because all the doctors were suggesting were more anti-depressants and i wasnt willing to go that route and because i was young, most were making out that it was pyscho-somatic. I forced myself to do 3 laps around a field and i slept fully for a whole day, i was so weak i couldnt even get off my bed for a bottle of water.

anyway rant lol but yeah adaptogenic herbs were a big factor in my healing.

Humans can get fat from sweet fruit like horses can get fat from eating grass. Ever seen a fat longterm 811er? Ever seen a fat grass fed horse? Me either. Its physically impossible and Ive put out that 10 000$AUD reward so if people can prove me wrong then quit yapp'n n make it happ'n!

If I had unlimited free fruit, I would soooo try durianrider,lol... Id win either way, all I can eat free fruit, or $10k AUD AND all the fruit I could eat...lol, anybody willing to sponsor an experiment?lol... Im willing to have as many people watch me as is needed to make sure I dont cheat! lol

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

I bet powerlifer would support you for sure.

I dont think anyone on here could support my my appetite for fruit,lol... honestly, I find it as addicting as candy used to be for me when I was younger, I have the same thing goin for baby carrots too, I love them... home grown organic tomatoes tooo...oh god...*drools*... especially heirloom varieties... dang im getting hungry now... my iceberg and spinach salad with orange slices isnt looking as yummy anymore,lol...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Like i say though if your so sure you cant gain weight with 80/10/10 then its impossible for 80/10/10 to bodybuild.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like i say though if your so sure you cant gain
> weight with 80/10/10 then its impossible for
> 80/10/10 to bodybuild.


Did you read what he said? He didn't say "gain weight" - he said "get fat." There's a huge difference. If you look at the 30bananasaday site, there are peopel who NEEDED to gain weight on 80/10/10 who did.

Curator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont think anyone on here could support my my
> appetite for fruit,lol... honestly, I find it as
> addicting as candy used to be for me when I was
> younger, I have the same thing goin for baby
> carrots too, I love them... home grown organic
> tomatoes tooo...oh god...*drools*... especially
> heirloom varieties... dang im getting hungry
> now... my iceberg and spinach salad with orange
> slices isnt looking as yummy anymore,lol...


Are baby carrots healthy, I thought they are dipped in a bath of chlorine water

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Like i say though if your so sure you cant gain
> > weight with 80/10/10 then its impossible for
> > 80/10/10 to bodybuild.
>
>
> Did you read what he said? He didn't say "gain
> weight" - he said "get fat." There's a huge
> difference. If you look at the 30bananasaday
> site, there are peopel who NEEDED to gain weight
> on 80/10/10 who did.

Its impossible to build any serious amount of muscle without gaining a little fat in the process. If you aren't exercising the weight gained is fat, its pretty simple. Im playing devils advocate here, you can gain weight with any diet but durian doesnt seem to think so, albeit i know you'd have to take in probably double the amount of calories if using fruit.

Durian does know of people who have gained weight eating "fruit" (which is not the only thing fruitarians or 80/10/10ers eat, btw, which we've already discussed), it's on the site he hosts.

If someone has had anorexia in the past then sure, their body will put on some extra pounds/fluid to help balance out their hormones etc but this will soon pass if they continue on the health and fitness lifestyle.

I mean if people cant be active then they have some SERIOUS health issues assuming they are getting sufficient carbs, water and sleep. Put me on a low carb diet and I will be as limp as the rest of em.

Looks like Doug doesnt have much muscle and is really fat in this shot.



Looks like Fruit has really blown out Freelee's stomach too. All those simple sugars going straight to fat. Ha ha, what a load of compost.



Thats what I love about the net, you can request people show pictures/videos of emselves and their daily diet/lifestyle and those that refuse, you know they aint getting good results.

I mean people come and live with us, watch us eat and train, see or blood tests on youtube and constantly updated photos/videos etc. How much more transparent can we be in proving that its IMPOSSIBLE TO GET FAT ON FRUIT.