Ok, well near death.

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

I think that stuff is safe for goats but that's about it.

intersting but im annoyed the parasite was not named ... ?

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Maybe it's in his book? He's just trying to get you to buy it...

hmm, bit dodgy, the cheese in question came via 'a friend in Paris'... I wonder how carefully it was stored in transit..?

No mention about how they confirmed it was from the cheese.

and just like anything else..gotta question the sources. People have died or almost died from eating spinach..because of the "ecolli" or "salmonella' bug. This story isn't any different.

It totally resonates with what I believe. I don't think dairy is a good idea, not raw or cooked or of any source. Boobs are for babies, don't muck about with nature is my feeling.

So is drinking milk a sort of 'Russian Roulette'? Most people don't get obvious problems from drinking it. But then again I found out in A & P that many problems can really build up over time. Like plaque build up in blood vessels. One can actually have 70% blockage without any symptoms, so they say. But I guess these are probably the people who are fine as long as they walk to their car to drive to their office job, but a weekend hike might bring the problem to a head.

Our plumber didn't have any obvious problems, but looking at him he didn't seem healthy, but his doctor said he was fine, until he had severe chest pains and a heart attack.

I find this all a bit strange...First of all, it almost sounds custom-made to discredit people who choose to use raw dairy products (you know, like the raids in the US you have posted about, Coco?), especially since goat milk/cheese is considered superior to cow's milk. My excrement detector is going off the charts here. I fail to see why this is "news." Is it to warn everyone that raw milk is dangerous and we better avoid it? Notice how there is never any pathogen named (at least not right away)? I am speaking of all the food recalls where produce is implicated. They always make sure to publicize it but they can't even wait to find the source! Because that was never the point--public safety. The point was to scare people and turn them off to raw foods. Interesting that the same doesn't happen when it comes to pills. How many deaths occur without the media covering them until it's so epidemic that there is a drug recall? Sorry, but it doesn't convince me a bit. We all have different bodies and tendencies. Some people just don't like dairy and that's fine. But for those who choose to consume it consciously (via organic/small farms/ethic treatment/raw), then I think it's okay.

Good points, all. It was very convenient to have spinach, sprouts, peppers and tomatoes all suspected of carrying food-borne pathogens right as the FDA was pushing for irradiation of all fresh food stuffs.

I still think it's ridiculous to drink boob juice after infancy ESPECIALLY from another animal. Who thought that up? Weird.

'But for those who choose to consume it consciously (via organic/small farms/ethic treatment/raw), then I think it's okay.'


The reality is that animals are still exploited - vastly - no matter how organic or any other way you choose to dress it up. And yes I do know what I am talking about as I was married to a farmer and grew up on a beef and sheep farm.

Any animal that is used for dairy, be it intensive dairy cow or extensive organic goat is an abused, over worked animal. There is no other way of commercially producing milk - and even if you milk your own animal - which I am sure you don't (although I was brought up that way) - dairy is extremely bad for you. ref: The china Study.

'But for those who choose to consume it consciously (via organic/small farms/ethic treatment/raw), then I think it's okay.'

total cop out - there is no concious way to consume dairy - what happens to all those bull calves?
Is AI (artificial insemmination) a natural and harmless process? and yes it happens in small, organic herds.

Any one who cares a jot about animal welfare would not entertain eating dairy products of any kind for a second. A wild rabbit caught by your dog is a more ethical choice than a glass of organic goats milk!

Do you not know of small farms where the animals are not treated as pieces of factory equipment? Maybe it's naive of me to believe certain claims by producers, but I have seen them where they state that the animals are treated humanely, allowed to graze, etc. I have also heard that goats are not factory farmed because the demand for those products is not has great as cow's milk. Obviously, I am not talking about domestic feta, which is big business. For instance, there is a company that makes goat's milk in CA called Redwood Farms. I wouldn't think of them as some big company that is exploiting animals. I have no idea the size of their company, but it just seems that there is a difference when it comes to goat milk production.

There was a cow on the hippie commune we lived on, she gave milk. She was well cared for but I imagine lonely, maybe that's why last time I was there she had a calf of her own. Pretty little thing. Sad to think of him being butchered for meat but that was likely his fate. That's what happened to our lovely "pet" pig Gertrude anyhow. Traumatic that. When people say "ethically" slaughtered I think of her death and die a little inside myself.

mastitis happens in any herd no matter how small or big

[picasaweb.google.com]

[www.redwoodhill.com]

Look at the size of those udders - do you think that is natural - NO. The goat like the dairy cow has been bred for generations to produce ever increasing amounts of milk at huge cost to herself. That enormous 'bag' pushes the legs apart causing hip problems and lameness. The kids are removed from their mothers - either killed or sent long distances to eventually be butchered in methods that I will not describe here - I'm sure you know what they are.
Once the goat has stopped producing at her highest rate she will be killed - there's no room for sentiment in business - there's no gentle retirement in green pastures for aging goats.

Redwood is an enormous company - sending goats all over the States - of course the advertising looks good but believe me goats are just as exploited as the dairy cow.
There is nothing about the dairy industry which is good no matter how many pictures you see of cute little goats in straw filled barns.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2011 06:17AM by flipperjan.

If your a grown adult, you dont need mummy's milk anymore. Goats included.

Flipperjan, that is very, very sad :'(
I know I was very happy to no longer have inflated milk bags attached to my chest. What a relief to be done with nursing after 6 years in total, whew! And I was only producing for one small human baby at a time too. Poor mama cows.

I just want to make this clear: I was not saying I didn't have a problem with the goat's milk on an ethical level. Somehow this got off track talking about vegan ethics. Coco posted this regarding the health threat and I responded to that particular issue. I realize this is a vegan site and I respect that and don't wish to debate the ethical issues involved. Actually, it helps me because I don't buy dairy products lightly at all. I am not trying to "cop out" by making excuses for anything--I totally get that there is a lot of abuse and suffering even with dairy. But I have heard about people who get a goat for their family's milk production. If you have a farmette or small piece of land (perhaps just for your own use) and choose to get a goat for the milk, I hear that she can produce a quart or two of milk a day! I am not talking about breeding goats, taking them away from the mother, etc. The Heifer Project is a charity that allows for people to buy a family a goat that continuously produces milk (in countries in Africa, etc.). I don't really see an issue with this as long as they do not kill the goat.

sounds like a good project to me.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

My little man used part of his allowance savings to buy 2 goats for a family in
Africa this year. World Vision supervises the project ensuring that the goats are properly cared for, bred and milked but not eaten. I can't ensure that the hungry family won't eventually eat an old goat, I can't promise that at all. It certainly was a consideration for little man when he was choosing them though.

On this video (1:00) you can see how cows are treated at a small Ohio dairy farm. Apparently typical behavior, even on a small farm. Pretty horrific, be forewarned.
[www.youtube.com]

"Look at the size of those udders!" If I had a dime for every man who said that to me as I walked down the street..." LOL--just kidding

lol banana... did I ever mention I have a nickname for you I usually think, but have yet to say, usually im wandering through the forum, see you posted on something, and think "hey! its nanners! I should check that thread."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Love it, Curator!

Coco, thanks for warning me--no way can I watch that. Impossible. Just like the PETA ad. Your son sounds very evolved. I think they also raise chickens and honeybees. Again, with conscious methods, supposedly both are kosher. For example, I was reading somewhere that bees do not sting people if you do things the right way and that if you leave them some honey, it's all good. I cannot properly debate all this as I do not have many details but what I like about Heifer Project is that, as opposed to typical charity, they are being given the raw materials to keep producing their sustanence. Microloans are great, too, although I am not very familiar with them.

I realize this is a vegan forums, but I have to say that the discreditation of raw dairy, implicit in this story, is frightneing to me for this reason: baby animals in zoos must be fed raw milk with a biologically appropriate spectrum of nutrients. Cooked milk and formulas can cause serious harm, as has been seen at African elephant rescues. What will happen to these poor motherless creatures, already doomed to captivity because of our species, if they can't even be nursed properly?

I am so tired of life on this planet . . .

Well maybe Tam we just shouldn't be interfering on such a level anyway - zoo's!!!!!

I understand that there are programes etc to prevent extinctions of certain animals but then we are creating the problems in the first place with loss of habitat etc.

I cannot support animals being used anywhere in the world - dairy is very bad for you quite apart from the animal exploitation point of view - I won't even start on animals in the developing world and the miserable lives they have to endure.

If we stopped selling arms to the developing world and forgot the massive debts that we insist on them paying back with interest (so wrong) then many of these peoples would be able to grow their own food and not live in such desperate povetry.

But enough - am straying into politics - sorry couldn't help myself. I find the justifications for animal slavery rather inciting.

Maude darn it, where's that "like" button already?!

flipperjan,

Well, zoos exist and starving the little ones of their nutrients isn't going to change this. And what about orphaned wild animal rescues? Or zoo offspring whose mothers die? It's a problem.