On a raw lifestyle website I read this:

"True health is a state of positive well-being that is evidenced by a constant state of ecstatic euphoria."

Okay, tell me, you who have been raw for some time. Is the above statement an over-statement, or are there really raw foodies out there experiencing a "constant state of ecstatic euphoria"?

Actually, I don't know if I could handle a "constant state of ecstatic euphoria". It sounds a bit exhausting to me.

What do you guys think?

~Kath

Wow! Not just a constant state of ecstasy, or a constant state of euphoria - but a constant state of ecstatic euphoria!.....Or was it euphoric ecstasy?

Whatever. Sounds really good! Kind of makes Nirvana sound boring.

Seriously, there does seem to be a whole lot of charlatans out there just itching to get their hands on some of those raw food diet dollars.

-Ally



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2006 10:05PM by Ally.

Well, I wouldn't consider these people at this particular website charlatans at all. Quite the contrary. But yeah, "constant ecstatic euphoria" seems way beyond me at this point.

I was just thinking that I may have come across in this post as being sarcastic. Actually, I'm extremely interested in just what is the "norm" for human beings in a healthy state of body and mind. I've always felt that we have no idea of who or what we truly are or can become.

I'm genuinely interested in the experiences that others have had and are having after long-term adherence to raw diets and whether or not it gets as good as "they" say.

~K

Opinion:

-I've been all raw for some time.

-I think raw food is a wonderful tool if ecstatic feeling good is on your agenda! I think the true ecstatic agenda probably ensures healthy eating.........not the other way around! LOL.

-David Mason

Check out www.kaleidos.org.uk - there is a lot to read but some interesting stuff about how humans could be...

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

I guess when I hear statements like "true health . . . is evidenced by a state of constant ecstatic euphoria" I tend to become somewhat skeptical.

Maybe someone just got a little carried away. I do that all the time myself.

For me personally, I don't know if I fit under the category of "true health" (especially if it means I'm in a state of constant ecstatic euphoria), but I have experienced a vast improvement in my overall sense of well-being. Most of the time it's like there's a little laugh in there just under the surface waiting to jump out.

But a state of constant ecstatic euphoria. Does "true health" then mean that a person would not be sad when hearing about the conditions of Darfur or Iraq? Or the freezing children in Pakistan after the earthquake? Or does one part of a person retain the state of constant ecstatic euphoria while another part mourns? If so, how can that really be a state of constant ecstatic euphoria? And would it really be a good thing if a person can no longer feel another person's pain?

Best wishes, -Ally

kind of a serious subject maybe



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2006 02:02AM by Ally.

Funky Rob: I've bookmarked that site. I'll check it out, thanks.

Ally, I'm a fan of serious subjects and I think you make good points.

Almost every day I have to re-state, or re-envision my motivations for pursuing a raw lifestyle. I need real goals and realistic expectations as well as some assurance from within and without that this is not just another "weird" thing that I'm doing. I'm already not exactly a "fit in" kinda girl and this is undoubtably going to be just another thing that could isolate, if not alienate, me from most of my friends and family. This is something that I am used to up to a point because my interests tend to be off center, but as I get older I am more careful to insure that what I am doing is authentic and necessary for me IF it may cost me community on any level.

I can already tell that the more raw one eats the less tolerant the body is to anything else. There isn't going to be raw all year and then turkey and dressing for Thanksgiving. Right? I've heard that people DO turn from raw to cooked, but I would imagine that this would be much harder on the body than transitioning from cooked to raw ever could be. I am also concerned that the message out there that eating raw guarantee's a disease free life and that anyone who does get sick on raw wasn't doing it right is misleading. My point is that if one DOES get ill while raw (not a healing crisis, but sick) then to what "natural cure" does one turn? How then does one eat oneself back to health? Do you follow? Apart from fasting one would have to regress in order to heal the body.

"constant ecstatic euphoria" doesn't seem a realistic goal to me, or even a very desirable one. I'm just trying to be as sure as possible that 100% raw (or aiming for such) is (for me).


I appreciate all of you and your patience.

Kathleen

Khale,

I think you make some good points too.

You may be right that once a person takes the raw food leap it is harder to go back to cooked food than it ever was to do raw food. But I think if I had to do it all over again, I definitely would. I especially feel that way when I see and hear about the health problems that are beginning to affect the other people my age.

I kind of wish that for me the transition had been a little easier, but then the journey has contained so many lessons.

Regarding sickness, my feeling is that a healthy raw food diet can HELP PREVENT sickness and contribute to a quicker recovery when you do get sick. In my opinion, a raw food diet will not prevent ALL sickness, and it will not cure ALL sickness. If you get sick while you are raw, it doesn't mean the diet failed you. It's very possible you would have been sicker if you were not raw. Sometimes you might even have to go to the doctor for a quick emergency fix. That's nothing to be ashamed of, and it shouldn't be considered as regressing, as long as you try not to make it a habit that every time you get the flu or a sore throat or something you go dose yourself with chemicals.

There are some very effective natural medications that are often helpful for avoiding the doctor's office. Maybe I'll start a thread on favorite natural medications.

Thanksgiving can be a challenge. My husband is a cooked food vegan, and he is part Native American. But even he likes to celebrate with a vegan feast while joking about how it wasn't really a great day for the Indians! Nowadays I just eat the salad part of the feast and it's OK.

Raw food can be year round, but it's easier in a warmer climate maybe.

Well, whatever decision you come to, I wish you the best and am enjoying your posts.

Best wishes, -Ally

Well, I think that if one keeps banging their head against a wall, and then stops, they may well realize that being happy is possible. To me, eating cooked was like banging my head against the wall. I am definitely happier then before (when I was doing the banging), and defnitely heard similar reports from other raw foodists. Now, as far it being constanly ecstatic and euphoric, I am not there yet, although I do experience "occasional" ecstatic euphoria.

Funky Rob, I just checked the link you gave. Fascinating. Thanks!

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

For the record, when I was about 50-60% raw, I was happy, energetic, more social, talkative, and hyper. A "Natural high" - Not like a drug or alcohol induced, but more like, sense of well being. That's for damn sure. But you're not going to wake up out of your bed going "GOOD MORNING MUTHA FU%##%*#*#%!!!!!!!!!!!"

I'm happier than I was before.

I don't know about all that euphoria crap though.

I am much happier in general and have a much more optimistic viewpoint on life. I suffered from depression and panic attacks before raw and both of those conditions completely resolved on raw. I do have moments of what I call "joy", really giddy happiness and connect-edness that feels almost overwhelming, but they are pretty few and far between. Mostly it is just being happier and calmer and better able to handle stress. I don't think you have anything to worry about. :-)

Take care,

Audrey
www.rawhealing.com

Wow. Cool. People are discussing the website I set up.

If I remember correctly, the quote: “True health is a state of positive well-being that is evidenced by a constant state of euphoria.” is from Dr. Herbert Shelton.

I modified it a little bit by adding the expression “ecstatic” to make it more “dramatic” :-) and reflect my own experience.

I know it’s quite a bold statement, but it’s nevertheless true, at least for me.

I always thought that feelings of ecstasy and intense joy are experienced by practicing meditation, yoga, sex etc. and they certainly are.

Now, similar feelings can be experienced by what Prof. Arnold Ehret called “Superior Fasting.” This is really amazing. It’s like the bliss you feel in meditation without the need to stay immobile and in isolation in an asana for a prolonged period of time. “Superior Fasting” is not “better” than regular meditation, it’s just a different approach.

“Superior Fasting” is fasting when you are already detoxified. Most people use fasting as a tool for detoxification, but what about fasting after you detoxified and rebuilt your body?

Now the detoxification tool becomes a bliss tool… :-)

When people fast, most of them actually get glimpses of these feelings, but it’s usually only for a very short time (minutes or hours) before a new wave of toxins hit the bloodstream…

The same thing is possible too, in a slightly less intense form, by eating very little. I know that most raw fooders are still into the nutrient, calorie and RDA thing, but I can assure you we need a *very* small amount of food (if any… :-).

I wish you a happy and blissful day…



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2006 08:12AM by AstralMage.

AstraIMage,

Good to see you're happy (seriously)!

I'm not sure I understand completely what you're saying about "superior fasting". Are you saying that by incorporating "superior fasting" into a healthy dietary regimen after a person has detoxed, a person will be in a constant state of ecstatic euphoria? OR are you saying that a person is in a constant state of ecstatic euphoria during the specific act of "superior fasting" while in an already detoxified state?

Can you reference Prof. Ehret's book and the page number where "superior fasting" is defined as "fasting when you are already detoxified", and could you give us the exact quote?

Also, are you saying that such a regimen can take the place of meditation and/or other spiritual endeavors? OR are you saying that such a regimen can be utilized in ADDITION TO other spriritual endeavors for achieving spiritual fulfillment?

Although I do remember that Prof. Ehret believed that a healthy diet and fasting could contribute to one's spiritual awareness (as have many spiritual leaders throughout history), I don't recall him ever suggesting that "superior fasting" could take the place of meditation, prayer, good works, and/or any other spiritual endeavor. If that is your contention, do you have specific references from Prof. Ehret in regard to that?

When you say "we need a *very* small amount of food (if any...:-).", are you implying that you believe it is possible for our bodies to sustain themselves on air alone? Are you a breatharian? If so, are you a breatharian in practice or in belief?

Could you include some specifics about your own health - why you feel you are in the state of "true health"? How long have you been in a state of "true health?" What is your regular dietary regimen, and for how long have you followed it?

You say above that your statement about a constant state of ecstatic euphoria is "a bold statement, but nevertheless it is true at least for me".... In my opinion, the "at least for me" part is an important qualifier to your statement.

Personally I prefer Dr. Shelton's statement because it sounds more mellow. "Ecstatic" euphoria sounds kind of hyper and a bit redundant (no offense).

I'm a big Ehret fan. In fact, his books got me started and motivated me to do my first juice fast. From Prof Ehret's books and my own experience, I perceived my first awareness of a completely new concept of food. And I agree it is amazing. The wonder of it in itself is enough to bring feelings of great joy. I recommend his books to anybody. Suddenly we learn we are empowered by what we eat.

But guess what? 33 years later I'm still learning.

Regarding the concept of nutrients in food, if you read Prof. Ehret's books, you will see that his assertions did not come as a result of a sudden illumination, but from many years of observation and self-experimentation. Who then can say that he would not have continued to learn and therefore add to and/or modify his teachings if he had continued to live?

When you consider that Prof. Ehret lived from 1866 - 1922, and that the concept of nutrients was not even discovered until 1905 when Willaim Fletcher determined that Beriberi could be cured by substituting white rice for brown rice, and that the term "vitamin" was not even coined until 1912 ("vita" meaning life and "amine" from the thiamine in rice husks), you might conclude that it's just POSSIBLE that even Prof. Ehret might have SOMEWHAT modified his views as he aged.

And you might also consider that even Prof. Ehret was never a breatharian, although if his theory of mucousless diet is taken to extreme, a breatharian diet is the ultimate conclusion for ultimate health. Since there just aren't many breatharians around, we might conclude that it's just possible that although mucouslessness or mucousleanness may be extremely important for attaining "true health", there might be just a little more to it than that.

The last person who told me she'd decided to become a breatharian was eating a big burrito the next day.

Best wishes to you on your ecstatically euphoric journey (no sarcasm intended), -Ally



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2006 11:57PM by Ally.

Enjoying this, yum

makes me think of Rob Brezny's mantra about finding wetter, juicier problems, about evil being boring, (about pronoia being the antidote to paranoia)...

I was reflecting today on how I could take a stance of I know so little, and open up to being amazed by and in life, as opposed to the scientist approach of OK, I know all this, show me something different.

We can climb out of our worlds, "ecstasy is a new frequency", having fun is the funnest way to live...


hope you can chew my dehydrated fruit!

love, Adrienne

Whoa! I've been away...

Thanks to Ally and all for keeping the thread uncooked.


~Kath

darkwoods, I do that every single morning... how did you know?

GOOD NIGHT MUTHAf#(*$&(*#$&

Hi Ally,

Thank you very much for your interest.

>I'm not sure I understand completely what you're saying about "superior fasting". Are you saying that by incorporating "superior fasting" into a healthy dietary regimen after a person has detoxed, a person will be in a constant state of ecstatic euphoria? OR are you saying that a person is in a constant state of ecstatic euphoria during the specific act of "superior fasting" while in an already detoxified state?
Can you reference Prof. Ehret's book and the page number where "superior fasting" is defined as "fasting when you are already detoxified", and could you give us the exact quote?

Let me quote Arnold Ehret from his book “Mucusless Diet Healing System” pg. 160-161:

“I learned that the cleaner you are, the easier it is to fast, and the longer you can stand it. In other words, in a body free from all waste and poisons, and when no solid foods are taken, the human body functions for the first time in its life without obstructions. The elasticity of the entire tissue system, and of the internal organs, especially the spongy lungs, work with an entirely different vibration and efficiency than ever before, by air alone and without the slightest obstruction. […] if you simply supply the engine with the necessary water which is used up, you ascend into a higher state of physical, mental and spiritual condition. I call that the “Superior Fast”.

In my experience, if you want to experience what he calls the “Superior Fast” you have to first prepare yourself with several prolonged water and/or dry fasts to purge the psychophysical obstructions from the system.

>Also, are you saying that such a regimen can take the place of meditation and/or other spiritual endeavors? OR are you saying that such a regimen can be utilized in ADDITION TO other spriritual endeavors for achieving spiritual fulfillment?
Although I do remember that Prof. Ehret believed that a healthy diet and fasting could contribute to one's spiritual awareness (as have many spiritual leaders throughout history), I don't recall him ever suggesting that "superior fasting" could take the place of meditation, prayer, good works, and/or any other spiritual endeavor. If that is your contention, do you have specific references from Prof. Ehret in regard to that?

Oh, no. I don’t know about Prof. Ehret, but I personally would not advise replacing meditation with fasting. These are two different tools and we can use both. I just want to say that the bliss you feel in deep meditation, the love and connectedness, can be experienced too, when fasting. Especially if you fast in nature, for example in the mountains.

>When you say "we need a *very* small amount of food (if any...:-).", are you implying that you believe it is possible for our bodies to sustain themselves on air alone?

Hmmm… I usually avoid talking too much about this subject, because many people feel offended when things like “living on air”, “breatharianism” etc. are mentioned.
Let’s just say that your beliefs form your reality. My personal belief is that we are beings of light and we can get nourishment from many different sources. My belief and experience is that the body is neither formed nor sustained by food.

>Are you a breatharian? If so, are you a breatharian in practice or in belief?
No. I’m not a breatharian. I take in liquids.

>Could you include some specifics about your own health - why you feel you are in the state of "true health"? How long have you been in a state of "true health?" What is your regular dietary regimen, and for how long have you followed it?

My health improved quite a bit after changing to a raw food diet five years ago. For me, this was not enough. I felt the need for several fasts.

Love and light.

AM



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2006 07:52AM by AstralMage.

AstralMage has brought us into high country now.

There are four basic elements that comprise all matter and the processes in which matter manifests. These are air, water, fire, and earth. Essentially, air is what we breath, water is what we drink, and earth is what we eat. Fire represents the metabolic processes in which these three transmute into matter.

I will concede that it is possible, in theory, to have so transformed the mind that the bodily needs of the individual become rarefied to the extent that one of these elements, namely earth, is no longer necessary. One would have to be able to handle the fire and air elements with a degree of mastery so rare that it is frankly inconceivable that anyone living in our modern society could accomplish it.

But then, only One knows the evolutionary potentials of humanity and if we don't do something about the conditions of our soil, not to mention our air and water, we may discover in a most painful way what sort of critters we may become.

~Kathleen

To AstraIMage et al,

Thank you AstraIMage for answering my questions so clearly and thoughtfully.

I agree with you about the spiritual connectedness one can feel during fasting, and especially with what you said about fasting in nature. For myself, whenever I've fasted in the past, those fasts have always been water fasts, and I personally think water fasts are healthier. But I know that the Native Americans would fast for 4 days and nights without water even. They would always go out somewhere alone to do it. Crazy Horse was said to have fasted many times for gaining strength and wisdom.

You seem very sincere, and I admire that, whether I personally agree with you or not. Actually I do agree with most of what you say. I'm even open to the possibility that some very exceptionally spriritually high individuals might be able to develop the ability to live without ever eating food. I believe though that IF (Big IF) such a thing were possible, it would be extremely rare.

I'm concerned that there do seem to be some who would take advantage of others' spiritual quests for their own selfish purposes. The fact that you said you really preferred to avoid talking too much about this subject I feel is an indication of your sincerity.

But for instance, there is one person who's been making claims of being a breatharian for many years (although some claim he's been caught a few times eating stuff like chicken pies and macdonald hamburgers). Well this person is now trying to recruit rich people for his "Ultimate Billionaire's Workshops" at $1,000,000.00 each, payment in advance, no refunds, where he will teach them "empowered ascension": the ability to step into their "lightbodies" without losing their physical form. In such a state, they will no longer need food to sustain themselves, and they will become "a new breed of physical, sentient, spriritual empowered humans, whose impact on the Earth sector and the entire cosmos will be enormous" (The old "I can give you power" ploy).

My feeling is Gee, why just billionaires? They can already afford to buy all the food they want. If it's for real, why doesn't this breatharian person go to Darfur and teach the starving people there how to live without food? And wouldn't it be great if instead of spending $1,000,000.00 each on the workshop, those Billionaires spent the money instead on delivering food and irrigation systems around the world where children are starving?

Just kind of ticks me off.

There's also a lady who sometimes claims to be a breatharian, sometimes claims to live on 300 calories a day. I admit I'm not too familiar with her book. But apparently 4 people have died during long fasts without water, while following her teachings. This is not good.

Sorry to bring the discussion down to a lower level, but I guess I feel it's important to try to warn people about such things (although people will of course make their own decisions). But I think a bit of skepticism is a healthy thing.

Now, back to a constant state of ecstatic euphoria!

Best wishes, -Ally



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2006 08:31PM by Ally.

AstralMage,

I am very happy to read your beautiful words.

My beliefs and experiences are in agreement with yours.

You mentioned that you have a website. Would you mind sharing the address?

Thank you so much for posting!



Love,
Julie

Hey Astral Mage,

R U the one that wrote the chapter on " Figs, Steroids and Feedback Loops"?
Interesting stuff!
will continue to read on
very thoughful and intelligently written
i'd rather consume that article
than eat a fig


glad you brought up "superior' fasting
its about time someone pointed out the obvious

buck does seems to stop at the wall of the selectively permeable membrane
of our intestines, don't it?
surely the ginormous molecules
cannot go through
unless they are in a much smaller form
liquid molecules only,in fact
it not only dictates
but is beseeching the body
to stop working so pitifully hard cuz
all that energy and resources it takes to break the stuff down
could be better allocated towards cerebral functioning
ain't that somethin!

well
just abouts now
i'm drinkin some molecules bound together by hydrogen bonding
glug glug
me and the fishes, we have something in common ( no gills for me though.. well, then again...)ya never know what all the chemicals in the parsley may to for me (heh heh!)

next
i'm gonna drink up some
pigments

can't go wrong there now,
can I?

greenz and I
we are best buddies

hey mage

you are
ASTRAL!

clink clink
thiz onez for you, buddy!
(gluggin the greenz)

Julie: Thank you for your kind words.

> You mentioned that you have a website. Would you mind sharing the address?

[www.rawfoodexplained.com]

> la_veronique: R U the one that wrote the chapter on " Figs, Steroids and Feedback Loops"?

No. I will definitely check it out, though. Seems to be an interesting resource, that kaleidos.org.uk website.

Dear Astral Mage,

Thank you, thank you (!) for creating and sharing this fantastic website. I can tell I will be spending some wonderful time there and also with some of the awesome yogic links you provided.

It seems to me the internet is a form of the One Mind.

All the info you shared there is super great! To express it all simply, purification of the body/mind is necessary for healing and for health and happiness and joy and our natural spiritual gifts.

Sometimes we tend to make things very complicated. I have found that cleansing the body using fruits and their juices (living water) is really all one needs to do to have it all given to you.

It gives me such a feeling of comfort to know that there are others like you somewhere in the world.

Thank you for your kindness and generosity!



Love,
Julie

I'm also studying and enjoying this website.

There is a lot of good, sound, practical teaching here.

Thanks,

Kath

AstralMage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.rawfoodexplained.com]

Wow, that is a comprehensive website, thanks.

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

Thank you Julie, Kath and Rob for your feedback.

It took me about two years to put it together.

I learned a lot from different people, forums and books. So, my hope is that with this website I can give something back.

Love and light.

AM



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2006 09:38AM by AstralMage.

Thank you again, Astral Mage, for your wonderful work.

I am continuing to enjoy it all very much. I just read the article by Ahmen Heaven (you gotta love that name) and it is very inspiring and helpful. Love it!

I wonder if someday I will not need the internet/computer, but for now I find that it is very helpful to me, especially for giving me a sense of community and as an "antidote" to all the confusion and darkness in the world.

You are a true deva! (bright being)

Love,
Julie