Hello all,

Several years ago I tried to be a raw foodist and failed miserably. I even posted a handful of times here. A few raw food detoxes helped me to get over some health issues, but for about 3 years I couldn't keep the diet going. I'd last a few weeks or a month and then binge for a few days on cooked foods, which often led to baked goods (my worst enemy). Then I'd feel the need for another detox. It became a vicious cycle, and I know you've probably heard this a thousand times, if not experienced it, I faded back into cooked foods. A Chinese accupuncturist had convinced me that humans had evolved, learning to cook their foods and live longer healthier lives, and that too many raw foods led to an imbalance, which she said explained my constant need to cheat on the diet. Thus, I had my excuse to eat meat, and long story short, I'm about as unhealthy as I've ever been.

Today I thought, enough, and went to the store and bought lots of fruits and greens, but even as I bought them, I started to remember that feeling of craving cooked foods - what the hell, I was craving cooked foods before I gave them up!! I couldn't even get out of the whole foods store without eating some of their free samples (which were mostly baked goods). I wonder if I'm about to put myself back into that vicious cycle or if can I avoid it somehow? Just reading some of the posts here reminds me of how I used to struggle with this, even though I had better energy back then.

It doesn't help that I have a sister who is into the Weston Price approach, if your're familiar with that (which includes raw milk and a lot of fermented/lactofermented foods, as well as a lot of meat), and she wants me to go into that. At times I've tried to, but it takes a lot of effort and time and frankly, all the meat sometimes grosses me out.

I'll never forget the amazing energy I felt after my first raw foods detox, and would like to get to that feeling again. I just couldn't maintain it, and often felt washed out and deprived, and I ate a lot of salads and got sick of them. I was lucky that I lived in Chicago at the time close to a raw foods restaurant, but I no longer have that luxury. So that makes this even more difficult.

Anyway, in the morning, it's a green smoothie for me, and after that, who knows. I wonder if one of the mistakes I made in the past was to start off with a detox. I feel a desperate need for a cleanse, but maybe it's a mistake to start off that way???

Any advice will be considered and appreciated. I fear that if I fail this time, and return to my current lifestyle, my time left on this planet is limited.

i've been 100% raw for over 9 years, and my time left on this planet is limited too! Who doesn't die at exactly the right time?

Rather than make heroic efforts to get to 100% raw, what about a constant increase of raw foods in your diet over the next (not short) period of time. You don't have to transition in 2 days or 2 months or even 2 years. Its totally OK if it takes you 10 years to get to your desired place, whatever that may be.

My only tip would be to feel what's going on inside you when you have the desire to eat some cooked foods. Would eating a banana or an orange stave off that desire for the cooked items, or is it something else other than simple hunger? See if you can get in touch with what you are feeling when these desires for cooked foods arise.

I think you will likely fall back into your old pattern. Perhaps a gradual transition to a high raw would be successful. I am not 100% and have failed every effort to be 100%. I used to beat myself up about it but now I accept that as long as I am very high raw and making the very best choices possible when I do eat cooked then everything will still be alright. The world won't come crashing down around me. LOL

I do plan to make the transition slowly, and have no plan to be 100 percent forever unless it somehow miraculously feels right to do so, but I am feeling a need to clean myself out with a detox. My current doctor wants me to have a stress test done, concerned that I've developed heart disease, so this is a serious, urgent matter. I'd rather do a detox than a stress test. Such words are highly motivating, but I don't want to burn myself out as I did in the past.

I agree that you should just aim for MORE raw foods without making it an all-or-nothing switch. I used to be very all or nothing about myself and go on similar detox and destruct cycles to what you mentioned. (except with me instead of baked goods it would be alcohol/cigarettes, then detox, then alcohol and cigarettes again-so silly)

Make your goal being as raw as you can be. A no deprivation approach. I remember awhile back I saw a video where raw foodist Tonya Kay was saying to make a list of your favorite cooked foods, and know you can eat them whenever you want. Then make all the rest of your diet raw foods.

Learning amazing new raw recipes is key as well. After I learned I could still have lasagna, chocolate mousse, etc on the raw diet I became way more open to the idea that one day I could be 100% raw.

Btw, I'm still only about 80-90% and not even a vegan (although I don't speak of my meat eating here because I know this is a vegan board). We all are just doing what we can and constantly seeking balance.

"Serious" and "Urgent" are two words and states of mind that might do you well to let go of right now (and forever). You can not rush yourself into a state of well-being, the stress that you're putting on yourself to hurry up and get it right is more unhealthy than anything else IMO. Relax, lovingly take one step at a time setting small goals and reaching them in a calm and steady way. Incorporate these things into your lifestyle as you go along and it will not be a stressful effort. It will just become who you are.
Remember that it took many years to get to where you are, it may well take many years to improve it to the level you are wishing for. However, each positive thing you do for yourself is one more excellent step in the right direction. Enjoy the journey. That's an important step, as important as any other.

Great post, coco. That is so true. Maybe some EFT therapy + deep breathing would help? With affirmations like:

"Even though I have not yet been able to fully stick to 100% raw, I deeply and truly accept where I am on my beautiful path of healing and learning."



(eft has helped me so much)

Nice words of wisdom all. Thanks. I was mostly venting, putting my thoughts and anxieties out into the universe (hoping they would float away from me forever) and the sentiments I've received from you all are more helpful than I would have expected...

Thus I am feeling a bit more hopeful this morning and wonder if I might actually be in a better mental place than I was in the past, when I was frustrated that I HAD to give up my lifestyle to get well, and secretely hoped to return to that lifestyle. Now I think those desires are gone. I'm feeling ready to sally forth, but know I have to overcome those addictions that have a grip on me. I'm making chicken stock today and hope to use that broth as a tea as part of my transition, especially as another cold front is on its way, but I'm also more excited about creating some raw food recipes than I ever was before. Doing some googling, I see there is a raw foods meetup group where I live and a raw foods restaurant I didn't know of that is about 20 miles away. Yay!

Good for you. A meet up is a wonderful way to find support and be inspired.
I can recommend a book that I like very much that has helped me relax and accept things as they are instead of suffering when they are not exactly as I wish them to be. It's called Loving What Is by Byron Katie and is available in many libraries.

Also, just FYI, while many here are not vegan this is a vegan site and as such discussion of animal products is against forum policy. Respectfully, even if this is part of one's diet we refrain from talking about it here .

Ok, thanks. I'll check out the book. I'll certainly abide by the forum policy, but I think it's a shame if one can't even mention such things as part of the transition process, something I would imagine the vast majority of vegans have experienced, especially if it turns out for me to be immensely helpful. Having said that, I realize that opening that door could lead to unwanted debates, etc. Anyway, I'll respect those wishes, but will always feel it's too bad that one's process can't be fully discussed openly, as long as the overall goal/focus is veganism.

It's exploded on this forum into insane arguments in the past, gotten incredibly ugly. Best to avoid it altogether here .

jimtoo Wrote:
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>
> but will always feel it's too bad that one's
> process can't be fully discussed openly, as long
> as the overall goal/focus is veganism.
>

I think you get a lot more freedom to speak of eating meat during a transition AFTER you have transitioned to veganism and been successful at it for a while. To promote meat during a transition toward veganism is pretty counter productive to a lot of people who are working toward veganism.

Eating meat doesn't have to be a dirty secret. Simply saying "I'm not completely vegan." can be acceptable. But if you say something like "I'm drinking chicken broth to help stay warm during the cold days." well... expect to receive push back and get tons of suggestions of foods to use rather than chicken broth -- such as vegetable broth.

I understand. I'm a writer and tend to let loose without holding back - I believe in complete honesty, as I can only learn that way. If I'm not fully truthful or hold something back, then what have I accomplised? For instance, if I discovered that the unmentionable broth was a great help in weaning me from the past to a better future, I'd want to report so, and would have no problem at all if someone challenged me on this or offered an even better suggestion. Which is just what happened. I had bought into the concept of the unmentionable broth from a different dietary philosphy and have been using it for about a month because of their suggestion - it never dawned on my clouded, indoctrinated mind that vegetable broth might work just as well or be a better alternative. Thus, by mentioning the undesirable practice, I may have just taken another step towards this site's ultimate goal. The more opinions, inspired by one's truth, the better, in my book. But I'm a guest here and am capable of following the rules - I do edit myself before posting. If I had my own site it would probably be completely uncensored and total chaos, which is probably why I don't have my own site.

You know, eliminating things gradually, sugar this week, white flour next month,dairy products, eggs, meat, alcohol, caffeine, say within the next year...this is a form of detox. Especially if you add in juices, smoothies, salads, raw fruits, veggies whenever possible and a bit of exercise. Personally, my efforts are sabotaged by cleanses. I do much better taking a positive approach by focusing on the fabulous raw foods I can consume. Maybe this would be more sustainable for you?

februarygirl



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2011 03:12AM by Februarygirl.

It seems you are approaching this goal to be raw as a destination; it is not.

It is a journey, and like any journey, you may get lost at times. When this happens, you may need to stop, and "look at the map" ....and then you simply return to the path . This may happen again and again; and that is okay; the key is to be gentle with yourself, and as Prana stated, learn to understand your underlying motives for the choices you make.

Go easy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2011 03:42AM by MBS.

MBS Wrote:
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> It seems you are approaching this goal to be raw
> as a destination; it is not.
>
> It is a journey,

I like that!

When I got into the raw foods diet in the past (around 2003/2004), I did so in Chicago at Karyn Calabrese's restaurant/wellness center. She was big on detox, holding a detox class every other month. I took her class 4 times in one year and she cheered me on. Obvously that was way too much for me and eventually I burned out. But she preached that detox should be done several times a year, that it was absolutely necessary. I remember during one class some relatively well-known raw foodist had reportedly passed away at too young an age, and when someone asked her about it her response was that raw foodists still needed to do detoxes due to environmental toxins, etc.

So I bought into that belief - she has amazing energy and is very inspirational. It's easy to see in hindsight that this was just too much deprivation for me over a short period of time. So I am looking at this as a journey with no definite end point, though I am still interested in some kind of gentle cleanse to put a dent in the past, once I've gotten a little further down the path. Maybe that's a mistake, I don't know, I just remember how amazing I felt after my first significant cleanse.

I've actually been working on a book about searching for balance - I feel as if I'm an expert on the unbalanced part, and have something to say about it, just not so much yet on the better half of that equation (which I can appreciate is a never-ending, flucuating exploration).

I NEVER detox, I find it utterly unnecessary and possibly even damaging to the system. It takes time to build up, it takes time to take apart. Living a healthy lifestyle is all the help the body needs to rebalance itself unless there is serious illness. We are in such a hurry these days but you know, some things take time and rightly so.

I think there is something to be said for differing physical and emotional makeups among people. Some can eat on piece of chocolate while others binge, same with alcohol and other foods. Maybe cleanses are good for some, as a kickstart and highly motivating for the long haul, but i think many people are set up for failure with that approach.. Those folks need balance, slow and steady, one day at a time approach. One bite at a time...It is more sustainable for them for physical and emotional reasons.

februarygirl

I like Februarygirl's recommendation to gradually eliminate the bad stuff (animal products, stimulants, processed food, etc.), and gradually incorporate more good stuff (fruit, greens, pure water, etc.). I've been doing that for about a month now in an effort to make it to a 100% raw diet. Currently I'm enjoying a high raw vegan diet and I am feeling much better than I did last month. On many occasions in the past I've tried to go 100% raw overnight. I would struggle for a few weeks and finally end up binging on total crap (like McDonalds!). I find this gradual approach to be much more stable as I feel energetic and satieted most of the time. Even when I do feel the urge to binge, I keep it within limits. I might scarf down homemade sushi or just plain rice, but I will add a lot of lettuce to it so I end up taking in some good stuff as I inhale those grains.

I think each person is affected differently by each food or stimulant, but this is the order in which I chose to remove things from my diet. First to go was all sources of caffeine, then dairy, then all animal products, then gluten and oats, then salt and packaged foods. I also eat greens every day, drink only water, and exercise almost every day. Another thing I like to do is stay raw until dinner. That means I just eat plain fruit or green smoothies during the day, and that seems to give me much more energy for the days activities, especially exercise. Usually after binging on cooked or high fat foods, I just want to crash on the couch. So the evening is better for that.

I know in the past when I've tried to go raw overnight, I wasn't eating many calories and my weight was falling dramatically. So it might be a good idea to keep those parameters in check.

As for the raw restaurants and raw gourmet, I think that was harmful to my efforts last time I tried to go raw. As I recall the food was usually quite salty and oily, contained stimulants like caffeine, and probably wasn't even 100% raw. Sometimes after binging on that raw gourmet I would find myself craving cooked food, even though my stomach was bulging. It also made me feel sick into the following day. And on top of all that it cost a lot of money. I feel better now just binging on plain rice even though it's not "100% raw".

Sometimes I just need to listen to my own advice. Believe it or not, I wrote this excerpt about 2 years ago (it's an imaginary conversation):


“I ate something I shouldn’t have,” I’d admit. “I’m afraid I’m still working towards that goal of becoming perfectly healthy.”

She’d smile and gently shake her head. “Well my young handsome man. Being healthy is not a goal to be achieved; it’s a daily practice, a way of life.”

“Wow, where have you been all my life?”

We’d take a walk to her cabin by the river, where she’d entice me to stay and live with her forever. There’d be no games between us, just a perfect union of male and female energy, of yin and yang, and I’d finally remember that youthful, innocent instinct for the desire to love.

“Imagine it,” she’d say. “We’ll eat fresh organic foods, drink clean water and breathe pure air, make love twice a day next to the river and then, after a lovely meal, I’ll even do all the cleaning.”

That was all I hoped for as I drove north, though for our relationship to be truly balanced, I knew I’d have to do my share of the cleaning.

I have somehow learned to listen to my body. This winter was tough for me, so I ate some of the cooked food - but I could not help but noticing how everything changes when I do that. It is all a mind game.
I am now sometimes desperate. The house is full of processed food, and I have to go and buy something to eat, because I cannot lie to myself any more. I am going to the fridge looking around, closets - many things are tempting me, but my mind now knows that these things are really bad, and that I will eventually feel bad, and I can't trick myself any more! It is so hard - sometimes I want my life back! I want to eat a whole jar of nutella like I used to. Or 200 gr. of chocolate in 10 min., with a hot cup of coffee and lots of cream. I really, truly, miss that! But, unless I really go crazy sometime in my life, this is not going to happen ever again. Why? Because I would feel like a last loser on the planet - it would be like a drug addict going back to drugs after rehab. Back to misery. I don't want to poison myself any more. And THESE THINGS DON"T TASTE GOOD ANY MORE. They just don't. The smell of coffee is still inviting, but the taste - awful! I know that and I don't even bother tasting it. Chocolate? Awful! sweet in a wrong way, makes me sick. I do use large quantities of dates and other sweet fruit to complement for my sugar addiction, but I feel the best when I eat a few pounds of Concord grapes. That is truly me, and I intend to stay that way.

Make sure you have variety in your meals.

variety is key to stop from becoming bored with your diet.

vary how you prepare meals, what ingredients you use. dont have the same meals night after night.

That's an interesting story! LOL at the ending!

hah great story

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I'm counting on that story to work as an aphrodisiac...