I've noticed that in a LOT of people, they recognize something is horrible for them, but they believe they cant survive without it... or at least thats what they say...



I made a bet with a friend who has this issue last week (although I know some of you may be mad at me for making this bet, I think it serves the greater good, but I am sorry about how horrible it is, and hope it doesn't upset many of you to much) she agreed to go 100% vegan, 50% minimum raw vegan, and absolutely NO processed foods or caffeine for a month, If I eat at least 8 oz of beef a week, same of cheese (I never ate that much even when I still ate cheese be4, this may be as hard to do as the beef, blech...) ... I know its horrible for me, her reasoning is that I wont be able to stop eating it after that cause I'll see how delicious it is, what she doesn't know is I have NEVER really liked beef, even when I was younger... and well, you all know my reasoning for her to try out vegan, its better for her... so I made up a huge list of simple cheap and delicious recipes for her, and some fancier ones as well, her room mate actually has an omega 8006 juicer, which is how this convo started to begin with,lol, and her room mate is vegan, so that will be good support for her while she is trying this out...

My hope, is that this bet will show her how awesome she can feel without that crap in her body, and will lead to much long term benefits for her, and only a month of discomfort/blech feeling for me worst case scenario, I'm still conflicted about this... but its the best chance I think there is of getting her to at least include more raw vegan in her diet.. and it was the only way she would agree to try it out... I suggested carrot juice and sweet fruits for whenever she has cravings... any other suggestions?

is it weird that I am feeling sick at just the thought of holding up my end of the bet? like actually nauseous... ugghhhh I gtg, I have a bunch to do today, but I will check back periodically for any advice the community offers me (lets try to keep it non-inflammatory though, I know my end of the bet is horrible... but she is 24 with cholesterol over 300... I may be actually saving her life with this...I think its worth it.)

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

In my humble opinion I think if she truly wants to change her life condition she won't need to take anyone down while she's doing her experimenting. Initiating this type of bet isn't doing anyone good and it's undermining your own lifestyle.

Why not ask her to do it for 1 week with you as her guide?

Love,
Prism

You are a mad man. Is her health worth yours in exchange? Dude, won't be able to @#$%& for the entire month with all that meat and cheese. Crazy.

its not mine in exchange, not like I wont be able to turn back or anything after a month, I never liked it to begin with,lol... also, its far far far less than the average SAD eater has per week, faaaaarrrr less.... originally she wanted me to eat that much every day, i was like nooooo way... once a week, period... maybe I can re-negotiate a bit though, smaller portions or something... I just dont think I can eat that much crap comfortably, oh and prism, a lot of people will do crazy things for the people they love... but I wont be compromising my health for my whole life doing this, but may be increasing hers for her whole life... whats her whole life over one month of mine?

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Curator,

Again with a person trying to lead you astray!

Your friend isn't being sincere if she needs you to backpeddle to make it worth her while as a challenge. If these terms are at all the result of coercion/cajoling from another, that's manipulation, puddin'. I am guessing that you'll go through this and so will she, but it won't stick in either case. If you think there's a chance your ploy will work, good luck to you. I prefer to convert people by example

except she doesnt realize its bad, she doesnt believe she will feel better on it, I could just Not eat that crap and say I did, but, I dunno, Ive never lied to anyone I care about in my life, whether its a good lie or a bad lie, it just feels wrong... I dunno...I got sick after trying for the first one tonight, It may have gone down the toilet, but I technically ate it...it just, er, UN-ate itself after that...

I prefer to do so by example as well, this started out by me trying to convince her to try it for a month after she brought up her room mate buying a juicer similar to mine and that she thought it was crazy (a week isnt even enough time to get over the caffeine withdrawals) and she said she would only do it if I ate half a pound of meat every night for a month, I got her down to once a week though on the provision I include the same amount of cheese per week (the cheese didnt stay down either) im eating a carrot and cabbage salad right now, to calm my belly... its angry at me... only 3 more times...:/... im gonna go lay down...im all worn out from cleaning all day, then getting sick from that disgusting meal...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Um... her motive? I'll quit heroine if you start heroine 'cause I know you're gonna love it and get hooked. Then we can do heroine together when I fail.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2011 06:49AM by RocketShip.

possibly, except this food isnt addictive to me, since I never really liked it, even when my parents would get it all the time... I just never even really liked the taste of beef, and have always felt sick when I ate it... cheese I did use to love, but it also makes me feel sick, so i stopped eating it, and that was easy... 4 meals (3 left now) will not get me addicted to it,lolll, thats a pretty unreasonable comparison. doughnuts would be another matter, THOSE feel addictive to me, I never would have agreed to doughnuts...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Good luck Curator. In my experience, it take a pretty committed, earnest, and sincere person to succeed on something as huge as the raw foods diet. If a person doesn't have these qualities, odds are they will give up at the first sign of trouble or discomfort.

If you lose the bet, and end up eating the animal products, you'll live. I would never make a bet like that for myself, as I don't believe that I should be more committed to people's healing than they are.

You have some good points prana, I don't really expect her to go completely raw vegan, but my hope is it will get her to actually start considering veggies and fruits as an integral part of every meal, instead of just an occasional over cooked side dish... even if she doesn't go vegan, let alone raw vegan, she will be considerably healthier over her lifetime, and not risk dying by 40 cause of her horrendous cholesterol levels:/... if she ends up even as low as 25% raw, I will consider that a success... she may even be tempted to go all vegan, although probably not all raw, once she sees she can go without that other crap... at least thats my hope... she does sympathize with the ethical vegan argument already, she just feels she cant live without the non vegan foods... I just wanna prove to her she can, and feel amazing with out them!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Well, for your sake I just hope it's organic that you're eating there buddy. And no ground beef, that can be up to dozens of cows all mixed up in one serving, then you just never know what's going on in there. Oh gag, I'm making myself sick just typing this up. Poor you!

Curator, as a friend and colleague. Don't do it. Lead by example. Or make a different bet. Get her to try one or more of the best of raw and draw her in. Make your best smoothie, fruit sorbet or chia pudding. Whatever she likes and ask her to try it. I would be concerned with the addictive nature of animal products and processed food. I think the heroin point spot on. Best to you in whatever you decide.

Paul

How about you ask her if she's enjoying the things she's eating and if she says yes you ask if there is any reason not to continue and if she says no you cry for mercy and express how sick this is making you and how much you are NOT enjoying it. The bet was to see if you could resist the temptation to continue because she thinks those things are so awesome but if she truly understands how unenjoyable it is for you, surely she won't want you to keep torturing yourself.

I quit the bet today, when I talked to her room mate, and he said she ate a cheeseburger last night, screw it, if she is gonna cheat on it, no point in even having the bet going to begin with, she does officially lose the bet however (on the FIRST DAY!!!?!) I just realized that I hadn't discussed the terms of the bet in here yet, basically, whoever lost would have to buy the other person a full meal at the restaurant of the winners choice next time one of us visits the other... im gonna be reading up on vegan restaurants in the Santa cruz area for when I see her next,LOL. but still... im rather bummed out she couldn't last one day seriously? that has to be some kind of mental disorder... im gonna suggest she talk to a counselor about it...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Honey, she never wanted change for herself. You wanted that. She doesn't want it or believe it will help her or even believe that it's possible. It's nice that you tried but I think you might have been the only one who thought it stood a chance of making a difference.
You have enough to focus your energy on right now, let this one go...

Ive known very few people in my life with that much lack of self control though, one day? whacky...oh well... at least im lucky her room mate tattled on her, so I didnt end up doing the whole month for no reason... at least I will end up getting a good delicious meal out of it next time I visit:/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Since you won your bet, why not have dinner at your home and she helps prepare whatever it is you want. You probably would get tons more food out it that way and she could pack left over to take home. Lots of fresh fruits, big salad with raw dressing, raw wraps, whatever you want.

You tried and that's commendable.

Love,
Prism

I was actually thinking of that Prism, will probably be early summer be4 she could visit, if my mom is better by then, then I will be moving down there... could be cool, but yeah, making fun yummy stuff at home does sound like it would be nicer than a restaurant, especially since I do not like how crowded most restaurants are...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Curator
Somehow I can see you living up to your end, but the other person...eh I wouldn't count on it. How did this bet start? Something seems amiss. I know I wouldn't make a bet with anyone to start smoking, if they stopped. But maybe food is slightly different? As much as I would like to see my mother in law eat better, I wouldn't want to start eating her way so she would start eating my way.

Instead, I have been thinking that her daughter who is an M.D. have a conversation with her about her living habits. She knows its unhealthy, but thinks that the medications will keep problems at bay, even though her doctor has been raising the medications steadily over the years. Especially in the last year since her husband died. She has really increased her intake of hazard foods. I have been leaving it up to family members to take up the conversation, as I think it would go better. but it hasnt happened yet.

I clarified further on in the posts how it came up, but basically her room mate got an Omega 8006, she thoguht it was crazy, and remembered I have an 8004, and was takling to me about it (her room mate is also vegan) and tried to convince her to try out mostly raw for a month, she said she would only do it if I ate those portions of meat every day for that month, I said no way, and negotiated it to once a week and an equal amount of cheese once a week... however the bet is over now after the first day,lol...she lost, she cheated by eating a cheeseburger.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

dumb bet .. im not gonna echo all of the above .. your health by example is more important than someone elses by default of a debt

lead by example those that are willing will joyfully join you ! <3

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I respect your endeavor to help your friend but you can not make anyone do anything they don't want to do... she probably has plenty of will power but for the things that she wants... don't judge her for faulting... she is probably already doing plenty that... and quite possibly you may have already planted a seed and some day she may try again on her own accord... if even by being her friend and living the way you do.

love laugh and dream

I echo everything else. Self motivation is the best. My partner and I have been thinking vegan lately. Hes been incredibly supportive, and is making more vegan choices himself. Although sometimes I wonder if we are making the best choices possible.

We got some vegan hotdogs and vegan cheese to try out. We made lunch, and he offered to let his mother try some, which she immediately turned down. She is just so closed to anything new. She claims that real stuff is always better, full fat, full sodium, real meat etc.... Her daughter brought her some turkey bacon for her to try. She didn't like it, and gave it to another daughter, she says real bacon is best, otherwise she isn't interested. I thought that was kind of strange, as I don't think that was radically different. But thats what I think, not what she thinks.

So, it just prooves that self motivation is perhaps the only thing which works, and even just offering it to her to trying came accross as kind of pushing it or something. In addition she can be very judgemental about any healthier choice we think we might be making. Mostly its her belief that 'A little' is ok "now and then", thats what her doctor told her. Very dangerous words to say to my mother in law, as I visualize one thing, the doctor probably another, and her...well, definately something altogether different. I think everyone would be appauled at exactly how much fat she consumes, as she often drinks half and half by itself, a glass at a time.

I know I have gone on and on, but its just interesting to observe and remark on these things. Does your friend think shes not eating that much meat, dairy and fat?

OMG drinks half and half? wow... and yes, my friend thinks she isnt eating that much of it, but she eats id say 80%+ meat and dairy roughly from what she has listed as her average meal, and most of it is heavily processed forms, or mexican food... I dunno, I really hope she reduces her consumption someday soon, but she is already extremely over weight and her cholesterol is soooo high im afraid if it doesn't happen soon, it will be to late once it does...

Oh well, its her life... I tried a fun bet to see if it would help...

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Curator,
Yes, she does drink half and half strait up. This is in addition to using butter, eating bacon, taylor ham, hamburgers. Usually its not huge portions, because she is old and not very active, but it makes up the majority of her diet. Oh, the other part is processed sugar. I am amazed she is still alive, I guess thats brought about by about 5 medications for many years.

Since her husbands death she has really taken it to extremes. I think she doesn't want to live for much longer and thinks this is a great way to go. Her husband had some sort of limiting influence on her, for good or bad he constantly hagged her about not eating so much crap, and loosing weight.

So, just my luck, hes dead from cancer, and she thinks that his habits didn't do anything. This is despite the fact that everyone who examined him said his eventual decline would be very long and prolonged because his heart and lungs were so very healthy. I guess one is supposed to be immortal because one doesn't eat much fat, and whole grains? Doesn't make any sense to me her thinking.

The bottom line I think is an emotional factor. Usually people with more positive outlooks usually eat better.

As I read the first post I thought it would not be fair for you to go through with your end of the bargain as she was unlikely to follow through with hers. I'm sad for you that you compromised your principles and health (though only temporarily), for another person who chose not to reciprocate the honesty and caring which you demonstrated towards her. You care so much about her well being that you were willing to sacrifice your own in her place. On a positive note, that might be a lesson learned.

Now, what bothers me most is that she cheated or "abandoned" her diet on the very first day, and didn't even tell you about it, knowing full well that you were doing the honest thing and consuming something which was not only bad for you, but which she knew you were actually dreading. It would be wrong for me to speculate, but I really wonder what her intentions were from the start. Lucky her roommate is an honest person.

yeah mislu, it probably is emotionally based...

Jonathan, yeah, ive thought a bit of the same, people only get one chance with me when it comes to dishonesty these days, I will always take a person at their word, even if I suspect otherwise, till they prove to me that I can not... So after this, if she wants another bet, It will not happen, she can make the choice for herself to try it out for her own health... if she wants...

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

You are a wonderful friend

februarygirl

thanks, I think I need to make some stronger self boundaries when it comes to my love for others though, everyone seems to take advantage of it, and I have no one to blame for it but myself, because I give them the opportunity...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Straight half-and-half would be disgusting.

I shop with my brother sometimes and am literally appauled at how much milk, meat and cheese he buys. When he complains about the prices that gives me a chance to drop little health hints such as "Have you ever considered just not drinking milk anymore?" or "Wow, you could buy 3 pounds of broccoli for the price of that steak!"