I had been making this stuff for a few months with soft wheatberries, and it seemed ok. But then one day I read that Hippocrates Institute (which had advocated this method for years) discovered it wasn't such a good idea after all. They decided to have theirs tested by an outside lab, and found that it had all kinds of bacteria, both good and bad, so they stopped the practice.

After I read that, I discarded the batch I had going and I haven't made any since then. Do any of you know anything about this? Are any of you making rejuvelac? I have a big jar of wheatberries now, and don't know what to do with them...

Hippocrates wasn't sprouting the wheat, and it ended up rotten.

The following is the best way to make rejuvelac from grain imho:

For 1000's of years people have been making fermented drinks from grains. Most often leading to beer. But after 1 or 2 days of fermentation the weak beer is rejuvelac, rich in enzymes, nutrients, and beneficial microflora. Many of the traditional beer making principles when applied to make rejuvelac give a very superior product: Soak grain for 12 hrs, drain, water plants with soak water, sprout until grass shoot is the length of the grain (about 4 days)(grain should be sweet to the taste)(don't rinse after the initial soak), take a few tbs of sprouts and blend with quart of water, let ferment a couple of days, (it should be bubbling vigorously and have a pleasant tart taste), drink, refill with water, ferment, drink, a few times till it is spent, keep the sprouted grain in the refrigerator and repeat. I like to use rye.
The Indians of the Amazon rainforest make a fermented drink as the above recipe but instead of blending the grain they chew it (the saliva aids in releasing more sugars) and then add it to the brew.

I'm thinking an even better way may be to ferment fresh grapes for a few days, just enough to get a vigorous population of the beneficial micro-organisms. Using unwashed grapes would give you the full spectrum of friendly organisms on the grape skin (as long as the air isn't too polluted in the vineyard area.)

It's a gamble imo and if you are not in great health don't play that game. I am not sure how brome knows, and should say more about why HHI was not fermenting properly, or how he knows this. Brian Clement has a PHD in Biochemistry so I think he can figure out how to ferment some Wheatberries. Also these seeds have been through a long trip to get to us and we don't know what or who they have come into contact with. I believe they are ok for a healthy person if rinsed and fermented in a clean enviroment and have had no negative experiences myself.

rzman10001-

I tend to agree with you about not taking a chance right now. I was sprouting my berries before fermenting them, and it tasted like good stuff, but who really knows what was growing in there. I think maybe I'll just keep my wheatberries in their little jar on my shelf for now.

Why not make your own sauerkraut or kimchee instead?

I've just started making my own kimchi, and I love it. Actually, I was wondering, how long does it keep in a sealed jar in the fridge?

I don't know. I've never gotten my homemade kimchi to last more than a week before I've eaten the whole thing.

Making my own kimchi tomorrow! So excited!

I know because I was there in January 1986, Lemon Grove, CA (San Diego area). At least that's what they were doing then, in that branch.

Do all the rinsing you want in the 1st 8 - 12 hours. Fully hydrated after the soaking, it doesn't need any more water. Additional rinses will drown the seeds, promoting rot and mold.

Be scientific. Try the method and judge it on the results.

No to the kimchi, it may increase your risk of breast or prostate cancer, even eating a small amount.

[nutritionfacts.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2011 06:17PM by pborst.

Paul,

First study: questionnaire based, therefore not conclusive, or even on the same planet as conclusive.

Second study: pickled vegetables made with Chinese grown produce contains godknowswhatall contaminants, thus rendering it likewise inconclusive, IMO. Smoked fish as a contributing factor sooner than pickled mustard greens[the sulforaphane in pickled greens alone should act as an effective tumor suppressant!]. I recall that the caustic chemicals in mustard greens, so effectively used by the Germans in WWI, were a jumping off point for the initial synthesis of chemoreagents in the infancy of clinical oncology. My irony meter is about to explode

The thing that bothers me about studies like these is how little common sense PubMed or wherever's clinicians employ in scrutinizing the vague conclusions resulting from such research. The implication is that we should all run around screaming(he's stopped eating kimchi entirely). For further example, that Korean women who don't have breast cancer--a majority--in spite of their having eaten natural kimchi since toddlerhood, are an irrelevant population to the purposes of evaluation. I mean, come on.

I enjoy that site but that little movie was largely pointless, it told us nothing about why he thinks kimchi is a harmful food, just 2 pictures of studies and no conclusion why.

Id need to see the studies although i see tamukha has already debunked most of it. Do you have a link tamukha please?

I agree, this is why many studies need to be taken with a great pinch of salt. I cant really say more though until i find them. If you have a link even better.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

I remember hearing Jeffrey Goldblum telling Tom Berringer in the Big Chill that rationalizations were more powerful than sex. And Berringer questioned him. And Goldblum replied, when was the last week you went without a rationalization?

Tamara, I respect your view. That said, while these studies can't be taken for conclusive, neither can it be easily dismissed. [www.oprah.com] [foodforbreastcancer.com] It may be fish or it may be the fermentation process. I guess to some extent, it also depends on how you view uncertainty. One analysis showed among Korean women that those with breast cancer ate higher quantities of kimchi (and other foods) than the controls [foodforbreastcancer.com] On these facts, I would not be growing my own kimchi. If that isn't enough, a 2009 review in the British Journal of Cancer said eating pickled vegetables can double your risk of esophogeal cancer, though these again are retrospective studies. [www.nature.com] I agree the question isn't conclusive. But there isn't a green light either. I would say proceed at your own risk. I have seen limited data the other way (kimchi is protective against cancer) but is also preliminary. I think right now the weight of evidence is against. Best.

Paul



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2011 07:49PM by pborst.

edit, on the BJC review, most are retrospective, there are three prospective studies included in the review.

Going to back track a bit. I know enough to know I don't know anything about pickled or fermented veggie risk. Raw, cabbage is one of the most powerful anti-cancer veggie there is. So, I am not sure why fermenting it would create a cancer risk. That said, if there is a safe way to prepare it without the salt (obviously fish!!! ) or other agents that may be responsible, it may be fine. Other soy fermented products such as miso obviously don't seem to pose much risk at all, quite the contrary. Anyway, I may have overreacted from the Greger tape. Sometimes he does overstate, though I like his site in general.

paul

Thanks Paul, ill try take a look over these links in the morning, cheers.

You make great points for the studies.

[www.vegankindom.co.uk]

Brian Clement said that they studied Rejuvilac, natural saurkraut, and raw fermented milk products. The only thing they NEVER found harmful pathogens in was Sauerkraut. Amazing huh.

Paul,

Traditional kimchi is going to have fish or seafood, as well as white sugar and flour and tons of salt. I could see why the traditional kimchi would be unhealthy.

But if one makes their own, it can easily be made without the animal products and refined foods. I make mine with napa cabbage, ginger, radish, paprika, pepper flakes, and a probiotic culture to keep the bad microbes from growing. Sometimes I use regular green cabbage instead of napa cabbage. With the green cabbage, its more of a flavored sauerkraut than a kimchi.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2011 06:37AM by Prana.

Prana,

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't mean to fearmonger. And your explanation makes sense. Just didn't want to see any harm befall anyone but see that is probably unwarranted. Appreciate it.

Paul

Prana, and Paul,

From your list of kimchi ingredients, Prana, and just from a food nutrition perspective, there is nothing oncotoxic in that combination, ferment or no ferment. My two cents as a trained cook, y'all