This was a recent fasting video from Doug Graham and one of the points that he made struck me as being potentially very dangerous for those out there who have alcohol or other drug addictions. [www.youtube.com]

What he proposed is that you should stop addictions such as alcohol and prescription drugs cold turkey. This is possibly the worst thing you could do. Being someone who has came from the above and knows many others who have also been through the same thing i thought it would be a good idea to correct.

Addictions with drugs that work on GABA receptors such as alcohol and benzodiazepines for example can result in death from abrupt cessation. Which is why more often than not you will be recommended to taper down to avoid seizures, delirium tremens etc which are the common causes of death from alcohol withdrawal.

This is poor show from Doug in my opinion and being in the position of authority he is, he should do some researching on potentially life threatening subjects before making videos such as this.

Here is a good link with more information on alcohol width-drawl - [pubs.niaaa.nih.gov]

Anyway i thought i would post up my thoughts as i am experienced in the above sadly, many like myself got into healthy living to remedy this, like others i know they may watch health videos such as this. But with the above there is no tough love approach and you run the risk of death by cold turkeying many drugs. There are various drugs you can cold turkey without death but alcohol isnt one of them.

Many don't seem to know that and some even seem to think alcoholism isnt all that big of a deal compared to drugs such as heroin. But alcohol withdrawal can actually be fatal. So if you are going through the above get checked into a good rehab clinic in my opinion.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2011 05:20PM by powerlifer.

I forgot to add this and my edit time ran out:

Not only that but fasting your way out of these addictions is possibly the worst thing you can do, alcohol causes so many nutrient deficiencies such as magnesium and B vitamins that alone could cause serious cardiac problems amongst others. As well as the fact fasting places a massive stress on the body, doing that whilst in the midst of alcoholism is crazy talk.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2011 05:29PM by powerlifer.

Thank you for your posts Powerlifer - very solid advice.

flipperjan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for your posts Powerlifer - very solid
> advice.

Not a problem flipperjan and thanks for the reply.

Sadly i nearly learned the hard way, at the same time someone one can abruptly cease alcohol use in the midst of alcoholism and have little problems, but you don't take that risk with these drugs that work on GABA receptors. I know many people who now have regular seizures(grand mal etc) and its frightening to say the least everytime it happens. Recovery can depend on a number of factors, alcoholics don't tend to eat well or that often, not only that but alcohol increases the excretion of many nutrients such as many vital minerals.

I did cold turkey due to not knowing any better, i was very low on many nutrients such as magnesium, my heart would go maximal heart rate with walking up the stairs, so yeah you want professional guidance if you get yourself into this type of mess.

It bugs the crap out of me when i see people making out alcohol addiction to be a piece of cake or the same as food addictions, its nothing similar, you dont only have the mental addiction aspect but you have serious physiological changes and problems, stopping eating a big mac is not the same as cold turkeying alcohol. The portrayal that heroin/opiate addiction is the worst thing possible isn't a patch on the problems that occur with abruptly ceasing alcohol or benzo use. Not to say its a walk in the park with that either as it is anything but and the chance of relapsing is probably higher with opiates from what ive read.

But there seems to be thought that because alcohol is legal that addiction must be a walk in the park also. Until you go through it, see someone or work in that industry you don't realize how serious it is and certainly bogus information such as the above which could result in death isn't a joke.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2011 07:55PM by powerlifer.

That's an egregious display of ignorance on Graham's part. Makes you wonder what else he's faking his way through, besides the wealth of really obvious things that is. Thanks for bringing this to light, PL. I've worked with benzo addicts and alcoholics. No, cold turkey is definitely NOT a good idea.

Never BS a BSer.

I would be concerned too about stopping prescription drugs cold turkey. Going without insulin for instance could put a diabetic into a coma. Diabetes Type 2 can be healed through diet and lifestyle changes, but it won't happen overnight.

Also regarding diabetics, according to Dr. Joel Fuhrman, M.D.: "Fasting should not be used early in the treatment, but rather after many months on the diabetic reversal diet, when the person has lost most of the excessive weight..."

I do agree that a fast - on water only - can be rejuvenating.

Doug Graham looks good though in the video. He must be doing something right!...just maybe not everything.

I hope he's started supplementing with B12.

Going off of certain drugs cold-turkey can be every bit as horrific as Powerlifer described. It's no joke. Looking good according to certain people's criteria doesn't mean that he should speak authoritatively on serious matters like drug addiction. What he's not doing right in that video is dangerously wrong. He should stick to doing push-ups.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doug Graham looks good though in the video. He
> must be doing something right!...just maybe not
> everything.
>
> I hope he's started supplementing with B12.

Are you saying that you wouldn't be concerned about stopping alcohol cold turkey?

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would be concerned too about stopping
> prescription drugs cold turkey. Going without
> insulin for instance could put a diabetic into a
> coma. Diabetes Type 2 can be healed through diet
> and lifestyle changes, but it won't happen
> overnight.
>
> Also regarding diabetics, according to Dr. Joel
> Fuhrman, M.D.: "Fasting should not be used early
> in the treatment, but rather after many months on
> the diabetic reversal diet, when the person has
> lost most of the excessive weight..."
>
> I do agree that a fast - on water only - can be
> rejuvenating.

HeavenHands,

Thanks for asking. Sorry if that was unclear!

I was just a little floored that Doug Graham could say that a person should go cold-turkey on prescription drugs.

I didn't address the alcohol, because I thought Powerlifer covered it very well. As he said, some people can go cold turkey, and that's great. But others need help, both physically and emotionally.

I'm well aware of the serious problems associated with alcoholism, and with drugs as well. My brother-in-law died a few years ago from alcohol-related problems; and two of my husband's half-siblings, both of them substance abusers, committed suicide last year.

My sister has been a drug addict and alcoholic since she was 17. She is now 62. She has attended AA for decades, and the alcohol is as much an addiction and as physically debilitating as the drugs. She is ALWAYS at the edge of secumbing to her alcohol addiction. A couple of years ago, a week after leaving a month-long stay at rehab, she drank a bottle of rubbing alcohol and was in a coma for a week.

She is incontinent and can barely walk with a cane. Alcohol inhibits absorption of Thiamine (Vitamin B1), an essential coenzyme for converting glucose to energy in aerobic glycolysis. This is a biochemical pathway that is particularly important for red blood cells and for the brain, since glucose is the only fuel for red blood cells, and the only fuel for the brain under normal conditions. To try to compensate, the brain will pump up anaerobic glycolis, which normally sends products of glucose into aerobic glycolysis, but can't in alcoholics with thiamine deficiency. The result is that lactic acid accumulates and causes more damage to the brain in return for less energy. Our red blood cells carry oxygen all over the body, which is used for generating all our energy, but that function is compromised without fuel. In addition, there is no healthy metabolism for alcohol. Conversion to acetaldehyde produces excess NADH, which inhibits glucose synthesis, so another source of glucose is lost.

Sorry, I'm just now studying this, and it's very scary. The best thing of course is to never drink, never take drugs, ever. But otherwise, no matter what route you want to go for quitting, get a physical from a physician, and get some serious help!

I do believe that all meat and dairy products can be given up cold turkey without a problem. It's possible that some people can easily give up grains overnight as well, but for most people who try to do that, it takes a while, and that's OK.

On the video, Doug Graham may be mostly concerned with marketing his fasting retreat, and of course, fasting means cold turkey everything. Fasting can be very good if a person is reasonably healthy, but not good if a person is already severely deficient, as in extreme alcholism; and not good under certain other conditions.

Doug Graham may have never experienced such problems, and he may just simply not know. He's not an MD. And although he's educated as a chiropractor, he isn't licensed. Retaining a license requires ongoing education.

He has something to contribute. If he were more current on his education, he might have a lot more to contribute. Until then, IMO, we'd best just try to take the good and leave the rest.

"Until then, IMO, we'd best just try to take the good and leave the rest."

I agree. If I want to watch a 60 year old man do push-ups, I'll tune into a vid of Graham doing just that. That's the "good." If I want to find intelligent thoughts on health and diet, I'll go elsewhere. Selling anything is never an acceptable excuse for disseminating false info that could kill people. I don't dislike him or anything. I try to practice unconditional love for everyone, but the truth is still the truth.

My opinion on $11K (airfare not included) fasting retreats in Costa Rica: Why would anyone spend that kind of money to NOT eat produce in Costa Rica? It boggles the mind. If I ever want to water fast for that period of time, I'll stay home, have friends nearby (or join me), and take the 11K plus I would have spent on Costa Rica to hire a doctor to stay on call and to come check on me on a regular basis. There's too much materialism in raw foods. It's literally siphoning the quality vibrations from the community. Who gave these people permission to go #2 where I eat?

Quoted from HeavenHands:

"Why would anyone spend that kind of money to NOT eat produce in Costa Rica?"

LOL! Well that's an interesting point! Hopefully they'll stick around for some spoonmeat coco and luscious jackfruit, or whatever grows there (never been).

Good point, HeavenHands. Perhaps fruitless in Costa Rica, one is supposed to attain the abnegating self discipline of Siddhartha in his ascetic stage. Or just that of a German Shepherd that must hold a Milkbone on his nose indefinitely without eating it

suncloud,

Horrendous, what your family has gone through. So sorry. You are very lucky to have discovered this path in life, as are your family members that have followed your lead.

Tamukha said, "Good point, HeavenHands. Perhaps fruitless in Costa Rica, one is supposed to attain the abnegating self discipline of Siddhartha in his ascetic stage. Or just that of a German Shepherd that must hold a Milkbone on his nose indefinitely without eating it."
LOLOLOLOLOL!

(Thanks Tamukha. You are such a nice person!)

Hugs to you, suncloud, dear

Joel Fuhrman says in his fasting book that no one should fast for more than 3 days without medical supervision - this seems like very sensible advice.

Thx powerlifter for bringing that to our attention. I too, have had first hand experience, and anyone who has addiction problems should have a word with their GP prio to any major change to their lifesyle.

cheers, geo

Yeah LOL.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good point, HeavenHands. Perhaps fruitless in
> Costa Rica, one is supposed to attain the
> abnegating self discipline of Siddhartha in his
> ascetic stage. Or just that of a German Shepherd
> that must hold a Milkbone on his nose indefinitely
> without eating it
>
> suncloud,
>
> Horrendous, what your family has gone through. So
> sorry. You are very lucky to have discovered this
> path in life, as are your family members that have
> followed your lead.

Suncloud - I'm very interested in your discussion on alcoholism and a lack of oxygenation with muscle weaknes as the outcome. I respect your knowledge, and if you don't mind, I would like your opinion on opiate addiction, such as over-the-counter analgesics (codeine etc). Does that form of addiction result in weakness also?

Furthermore, I was under the impression that Doug Graham was a medical doctor. From what you said, he is an unlicenced chiropractor. So he doesn't really have any current qualifications. Can you elaborate further on that please?

Cheers,
geo

geo,

Graham is a trained chiropractor with a degree in phys ed also, but works mostly as a sports training and nutrition consultant. His wife is a trained nutritionist, if that helps.

Thx Tamukha, and I don't believe that a chiropractor is a doctor of anything. Though maybe it's different in the states, but in Oz a Dr either has a Phd or is a medical Dr. I've seen 'Doctor Doug Graham' so many times that I just assumed he was.

this was from wiki:

Answer:


The complete answer to this depends on which country the chiropractor has graduated from their chiropractic program.

Although the term doctor historically means "teacher" (thus only a PhD is a true doctor in the historical sense), today our world considers a doctor to be anyone who has graduated from a post graduate doctorate program.

In Canada, Chiropractors must generally have a 4 year undergraduate degree before starting chiropractic school, then they must complete a 4 year, post graduate, doctorate in chiropractic (8 years total). In 2005, the province of Ontario granted the Canadian Memorial Chiropractic College (CMCC) the right to offer a professional health care degree under the Post-secondary Education Choice and Excellence Act. This decision was based on a thorough review by the government of the curriculum taught at CMCC, and the knowledge that its graduates have upon completion of the program. This degree granting right sets the program at CMCC within the hierarchy of education in Ontario as comparable to that of other primary contact health care professions, such as medicine, dentistry, and optometry. As such, in Canada, chiropractors are indeed doctors, doctors of chiropractic.

In most US states, Chiropractors are considered licensed "physicians" (In 2009, the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Hospitals changed its policy to include Doctors of Chiropractic as physicians). They attend Chiropractic colleges, which are accredited post-graduate institutions requiring the same 4 year undergraduate education as a pre-requisite for admission as most medical schools. In these five academic year (10 semester) programs they study all the same sciences and medical specialties as medical doctors do. Many people are not aware, in Oregon, chiropractors can perform minor surgery and some even still deliver babies. Thus today in the US, chiropractors are indeed qualified as primary care doctors.

In Switzerland, Chiropractors are trained in medical schools along with medical doctors. Thus, in Switzerland, chiropractors are definitely considered doctors.

In comparison to the previous countries described, in Australia chiropractors complete a 4 year undergraduate degree in chiropractic, followed by a 2 year masters degree in chiropractic. As such, chiropractors trained in Australia are NOT considered doctors.

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

sweet as Jodi, you cleared that right up for me.

Sorry to hear about your sister and others you know who have addiction problems suncloud.

Alcohol in my opinion is the most toxic, addictive and sinister drug out there, the worst bit of all is that it is legal and socially acceptable. Which seems to take the sting out of all the problems it causes for some reason. If it was any other drug the classification would change so why is alcohol immune to reclassification? Because it makes so much money? Is so socially engrained into our society that millions would likely not be able to function without there drug of choice. A recent study put together by Professor Nutt showed that alcohol was the most harmful drug over heroin, crack cocaine etc.

Im glad you touched on the vitamin B1 deficiency problems which i suffered from when i was an alcoholic. As has been said the multiple nutrient deficiencies that alcohol causes coupled with poor eating that usually accompanies alcoholism it is a really bad idea to start a fast under these conditions. You could and likely would run into seizures and cardiac issues.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2011 09:40PM by powerlifer.

Hi geo,

Sorry I can't give you information on the effects of opiates. The info on alcohol came from the biochemistry course that I'm currently working on.

That's good research from Jgunn! Thanks Jodi.

There is more though. To retain a license in any kind of health-related field in the US, a person is required to attend a specified number of hours of continuing education related to their field of practice.

In Doug Graham's own words on his vegsource website, he has allowed his license to lapse.

Q: Dr. Graham, do you retain your license? posted by ZeeZee on December 9, 2010 at 5:15 pm:

A: No, I have allowed my license to lapse. I can renew should I wish, but I seriously doubt that I will ever do that.

[www.vegsource.com]

------------------------------------------------------

In addition, the university where Doug Graham received his chiropractic degree was not accredited by The Council on Chiropractic Education (CCE) in 1983, when Doug Graham received his degree. (Life Chiropractic College was accredited in 1987).

And Doug Graham was trained long before 2009 when chiropractors became recognized as physicians.

It is illegal to practice as a chiropractor without a license; so although Dr. Graham retains his title, his credentials are not sufficient to allow him to practice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2011 11:08PM by suncloud.

Powerlifer, I missed your post when I replied to geo (above).

Thanks for your comments. Yes, I totally agree.

An update on my sister, whom I haven't seen for a few years: she's coming to visit next summer, but she told me she's in bed now nearly all the time. I don't really know what that means. I hope she makes it over here.

Good thing powerlifer, you survived, you're healthy, and you're here to tell us about it! Thank you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2011 11:12PM by suncloud.

Thanks suncloud.

Sounds like me when i was an alcoholic she probably has quite a few of these symptoms which can contribute to being bed ridden most commonly nutrient deficiencies that are required for energy production(Vitamins B, Magnesium etc), adrenal fatigue is the most common cause of fatigue with alcoholism in my opinion or at least on par with low levels of various nutrients and low neurotransmitters/stress hormones levels.

Although the rebound anxiety/palpitations i would get was probably the worst symptom, so bad that it would often cause me to drink to cure that alone. Thinking you were going to seizure, have a heart attack constantly etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2011 11:19PM by powerlifer.

Geez powerlifer, I'm sorry you went through that. I've seen something similar with my sister, in regards to the anxiety attacks that really take over your being when you give up drugs/alcohol.

You must have worked very hard to recover. Much congratulations! And of course, keep up the good work!

I really think you're doing others a great service by talking about it and by staying healthy.

Sweet, thx suncloud I appreciate the info, makes you wonder about many of the people who you read about advocating this or that diet/lifestyle.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This was a recent fasting video from Doug Graham
>
> This is poor show from Doug in my opinion and
> being in the position of authority he is

I agree!! He is certainly not a Fasting authority. His expertise lies in high-fruit consumption, and the Jury is still out.
In watching this video, I lost respect for Doug Graham......WY