[www.bbc.co.uk]

What isn't explained in this story is why the baby got rickets. We don't know if the baby was breast fed or bottle fed. Presumably if bottle fed then the milk would have been fortified with vitamin D so therefore I'm assuming the breast milk was deficient. So - if the mother is deficient it follows that the breast milk will be too?

The consultant on the BBC news today said that nobody receives Vit D from the sun between the months of October and May in the UK. Apparently all pregnant Mums are adviced to supplement.

Should vegans/rawfooders supplement during these months too I wonder (obviously not is you have lovely signifigant sunshine to get out into regularly)

In the northern U.S. we are advised to supplement in fall and winter, or to use some sort of light system, but these can be prohibitively expensive.

I suspect that the typical SAD-eating woman's breast milk, to say nothing of the blood coming to the baby directly in the womb, is deficient in many micronutrients. It's impossible to say what was the problem in this case; it seems to have been a rigmarole of miscommunications.

It must be a relief to the parents to finally be cleared of charges. What a nightmare.

What I don't get is how you die of rickets. Is it not a calcium deficiency? Did you ever hear about needing Vitamin D growing up? Come on, I blame sunblock slathered on infants with SPF 10000009



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2012 04:30PM by banana who.

banana who,

All mammal infants are supposed to get their D from mama's milk. The photosynthesized form comes in later.

Okay, then perhaps the mamas are slathering on sunblock and not getting enough D. The point I am making is that I never heard anything about rickets growing up. Mothers were not urged to take D, nor anyone else. I remember reading how OJ had rickets as a kid. I think he was low-income growing up and I assumed it was some mineral deficiency.

In any case, how does one DIE of this? I heard it makes you bow-legged!

Banana who - severe rickets kills - look it up because I don't know all the details. These parents were black and black people have a harder time getting Vit D from the sunshine in the UK.

Tam - the story was much worse than 'a relief to be cleared of charges'. In the time that it took to get this case to court they fell pregnant again. A court order was taken out to prevent the father being at his wife's side during the labour - he went to a nearby church to pray and wait for the phonecall. The baby was removed from the mother without her being able to even see it or touch it and was put in foster care - remember these people had not been convicted of any crime at this stage.
Finally it went to the old Bailey and you read the story above - but EVEN WHEN they were CLEARED of all charges the court of child protection took them back into court to prove it all over again with all the same witnessess as before which took several more months - eventually they were reunited with their baby, now a toddler. They had to live for two years or so accused of murdering their baby, seperated from each other and deprived of their second child. It's an absolute disgrace and I am going to write to my MP to complain about the catalogue of mistakes; I am so angry about it. I'm afraid that because they were young black people the consultants in charge leapt on the child abuse band wagon - had it been a middle class white couple I bet it would never have happened. In court a radiographer was called in to look at the x -rays and diagnosed rickets at a glance. It should not have been missed. Sadly, shamefully, there is still a huge amount of racism in this country particularly in the big cities.

Oh my god, flipperjan, that is horrendous, just horrendous. I hope this family gets justice, somehow.

FJ--I haven't researched anything regarding the rickets, but something just came to me: I was doing something for an education course on sickle cell anemia and I believe that rickets was a symptom. I wonder if the death was part of a larger health issue that occurs to people of African descent? I looked at some holistic information and it was said that traditional diet of some of the African nations with higher sickle cell children was abandoned. Very interesting!

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> banana who,
>
> All mammal infants are supposed to get their D
> from mama's milk. The photosynthesized form comes
> in later.


This is directly from Wikipedia's entry on rickets:

<Darker-skinned babies need to be exposed longer to the ultraviolet rays>

This implies that babies can get D from the Sun.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Also mentioned were cases reported from UK and one culprit? Sunblock! Just what I said. And no mention of fatalities. Nor in another article I read about rickets.

banana who,

Mammals get their D from mama in the early stages, as I wrote above. In any case, we don't know that this baby wasn't exposed to the sun or was slathered with sunblock, so I'd rather not conjecture. This was a terrible thing for this family to go through. Also, I don't think there is as vehement a pro-sunblock culture in the U.K. as we have here, on account of the climate there, but a British poster will have to chime in here to confirm/refute this!

I can never understand why people want to use sunblock here in the UK, 3/4's of the time on the hottest days of the year it is still mild compared to a day in Spain etc. Sure you'll get one off days a couple of times a year which warrant sunblock especially if your going to be out in the sun long uncovered.

But on the whole up here we don't get a enough sun to even justify a summer most years. This is a real shame for the family, vitamin D deficiency is extremely under-diagnosed and poorly misdiagnosed. Rickets is sadly making a comeback from the looks of research especially in the young. My physician didn't even care when i showed him how deficient i was in vitamin D even when going to him for years about chronic health issues. He was more pissed that i had went and got tests done behind his back, shows you many of these people don't give a crap about helping people get well.

Its a shocking situation for the family like i say and i do feel especially in the darker months supplementation may be necessary here in the UK. Or more foods being mildly fortified.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2012 03:19PM by powerlifer.

Tam, hate to beat a dead horse (or a live one, for that matter) but what are "the early stages" to you--in vitro?

<Darker-skinned babies need to be exposed longer to the ultraviolet rays>

This implies that babies are capable of getting D from the Sun. Now if you are talking before birth, then that's a whole 'nuther story. But once the kid gets here, I would imagine that s/he is able to convert Sunlight into D.

Just for the sake of argument - say a baby was born in november in the uk - there wouldn't be any sun that could do it any good until the following May. The baby in question died at 4 months old I think - so maybe never saw any sunshine. Also most Mum's wouldn't want to expose baby skin to strong sun for more than a few minutes anyway.

Powerlifer - I can understand why people use sun block in the UK. I work at festivals in the summer doing festival safety and this is often the scenario: happy festival people leave their offices and bask all day long in very unexpected hot sun - the result is us often running people to the medical centre with sun stroke and serious sun burn - real lobsters. OK that is extreme - but because we don't get much sun - when it comes in summer it can be very damaging as most of us are very 'pale' and unused to it. I burn so easily - but I prefer to get some sun and then cover up and use sun screen.

Flipperjan, I think you are helping me make my point better. In November, Dec. and January, there is Sun. Now I have never been to England, but as cloudy as it might be, there is still the Light from the Sun. This is the problem most people have: they assume that receiving benefits from the Sun only happen in the summer. Some of my most wonderful winter times are snowy days in bright sunlight and I just drink it in...It feels so lovely. But even on cloudy days in the summer it is advised to use sunblock because a person can still burn.

Thanks because you reminded me of a topic I wanted to bring up regarding covering up children

You sure can get sun damage even when it's cloudy, from what I've read the worst sort of damage happens deeper in the skin and doesn't show any colour at all. Conversely it's not enough sun to get adequate vitamin D though. People here in Canada are chronically depleted, that's why so many foods are fortified. If you're not eating that stuff (we aren't) it's worth it to look at your levels and think about supplementing.

banana who,

Early stages means while still relying on mother's milk for primary nutrients. Maybe the Wiki article says what it says because so many women in the developed world don't breast feed? I don't know, but, again, it's useless to speculate about what happened with this baby because we don't know the minute details of his circumstances in his short life.

I heard through the rumor mill that at my latitude, it is impossible to get the correct spectrum of rays to produce my own vitamin D four months out of the year.

I still go outside. There is always prana! >8)

Dr. Mercola has so many awesome articles about sun. Apparently the best way to get acclimated is to go out in the spring, 15-20 minutes TOPS, never between 11-2, and to build with constant low exposures without sunblock. This actually REDUCES the incidence of skin cancer... whereas burning can make it go up. (Maybe very pale/sensitive people should start with less sun.)

But just like eating with the seasons, a normal, healthy sun exposure routine should still leave enough reserves until spring rolls around again, though something of a flux is natural.

But who makes time for sunshine breaks?

Yes I agree Phantom - getting gradually acclimatised is definately the way to go. I prefer to not use any sun screen but carefully monitor my exposure. When I have to work outside (in our rare sunny summers) - then I will use sun screen.

Banana Who - I don't think we can get the benefits from the sun in the winter. It's not just the strength but also something to do with it's position in the sky - I think?? Anyway - that seems plausible to me. But I agree the winter sun is gorgeous when it comes and makes one feel so much better generally

I have heard that sunblock itself can cause cancer - sunscreen is better. As we are coming up to summer this might be a useful subject to discuss. I would like to know more - i shall start a new post