People Make in their Diets: [www.youtube.com]

Dr. Macdougall is well-known for being plant-based and low-fat. I dig that. But then to say that sugar and salt are okay to make things more flavorful? Huh? He's against olive oil but doesn't mind sugar?!

Most of these people are inconsistent i find which is why i watch pretty much none of there videos lol. They are often entertaining and good to widdle some hours away but when it comes to learning about health and nutrition you can't beat a good old boring human physiology books or standard texts on nutrition. Take what you need from them.

Whats that other doctor's name who recommends taking strong alkaline salts and alkalinity?, which is one of the most worst things you can do. Even ant-acids come with the warning that they can increase hip and bone problems in the elderly, doesn't take a genuis to work out that neutralizing your stomach acid prevents the absorption of acid dependant minerals that are needed for the bone matrix.

Sorry mini rant and abit off topic. I have even gone off of Dr.Mercola due to this soy scare mongering myths which can be easily debunked.

But yeah sugar as in refined white table sugar is terrible and one of the main leading causes for the development of diabetes and obesity. Salt i feel is villainfied often, it really depends on the type of salt. Unrefined mined salt which is often very low in metals and contains the full spectrum of trace elements can be healthy used in moderation.

I think these doctors tend to overplay the benefits of low fat when often the benefits can be attributed to other factors in the diet. One being that many plant foods contain many potent anti-inflammatory nutrients and phyto-chemicals. This alone is a major factor in treating and preventing heart disease. Another factor is how fiber dense most plant vegan foods are which as we all know is well documented in its role of preventing and treating cardiovascular disorders. Then people take it the wrong way and irritationally fear nuts, seeds and other fat sources that they are bad for our health. There is a wealth of research on the cardiovascular benefits of the above, even nuts and seeds which have unoptimal ratios of essential fatty acids.

These doctors tend to often overplay the role of cholesterol in heart disease, when it is actually the inflammation that is the real cause. Basically im still not sure how healthy low fat diets are long term, there has been research that has shown low fat diets actually increased cardiovascular disease.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2012 06:19PM by powerlifer.

perhaps the result of some anxiety who can say.

Powerlifer, I am interested in what you say about soy. I just took a book out of the library--new one--which goes by the name of "Beauty Detox," I believe. I didn't find the title appealing but thumbed thru it and guessed that it was basically advocating for high-raw. The author mentions soy as being so bad for you (except for tempeh and miso). I am not crazy about almond mylk. I find it too rich and I really like the brand of soy mylk I buy. But I've been hearing about all these issues lately with soy and it's starting to make me wonder. So if you could share another view on it, I would be much obliged.

I drink soy milk. Depends what myth you want debunked really, i can't remember if ive done any articles on the subject. As long as non-GMO i feel soy is fine, most soy foods are fermented or cooked.

The most common issue which comes up when it comes to Soy is the phyto-estrogen content, you get everything from Soy will give a man breasts to Soy will make you feminine and homosexual. Some of the myths are ridiculous, the funny bit is many that spout those myths are the ones wolfing down huge platters of meat which is injected with strong endocrine disrupting hormones.

Phyto-estrogens are very weak mimicking estrogenic compounds which dock at receptor sites so that more harmful estrogens are not absorbed. Phyto-estrogens will also fill in and raise your estrogen to healthy levels when low. Phyto-estrogens have to be some of the most misunderstand compounds in existance. You would have to stop eating all plant foods to avoid phyto-estrogens as they all contain them.

Some beans even have higher levels of phyto-estrogens than Soy yet are not villianified in the same manner in which Soy is.

The next most common issue raised is the fact Soy is a goitrogen but the real answers is that pretty much 99% of the Soy products people eat are either cooked or fermented both of which inactivate goitrogens. At the same time other goitrogenic foods are not villainified as horrible thyroid disorder inducing foods such as the cruciferous vegetables like broccoli. I think the most common problem vegans run into as vegan diets can be high in soy products, is that they are often void of a solid iodine source. If you are more susceptible to thyroid disorders and consume a goitrogen rich diet combined with low iodine intake you are more likely to run into problems.

The asian population consume large amounts of Soy products and are fine, but they also consume large amounts of iodine rich seaweed. Both of which are thought to contribute to their low levels of various types of cancers.

The downside to Soy is that it is a common allergen for many, luckily for me it isn't. The iso-flavone phyto-estrogens have been proven in studies to increase bone density, prevent hormonal induced cancers such as those of the breast, balance hormones and much more.

Soy bean is a good source of complete protein which can make it handy for vegans. Yes if you eat thousands of calories you will likely get enough protein, but good dense quality sources aren't easy to come by in plants lets face it.

Just my 2 cents, if there is a specific question please fire away and ill see if i can help.


[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2012 09:52PM by powerlifer.

Actually, what I keep seeing over and over again is that Asians do NOT consume all that much soy. In other words, they take in very little tofu and soy milk, at least much less than we've been told in the past. I wondered about that myself because I had heard so much about them eating soy.

Which soymilk do you buy? I LOVE Westsoy organic plain (it's in a white box and is NOT fortified with anything). It's sweetened with brown rice syrup versus cane sugar. I find it very wholesome compared to other brands. Some are very beany-tasting.

I just am not over the moon about almond mylk. I have made my own and it just didn't sit well with me. I have also made pumpkin seed mylk--maybe I'll try that one again. It's much easier getting raw pumpkin seeds than really raw almonds! And cheaper!

That's what I've read too, that Asians eat soy as a condiment more than a meal base, things like tofu, tempeh, soy sauce (those are all fermented too). Haven't heard about soy milk being a big thing there, I'll ask friends living in HK.

And Coco, it's probably different in various Asian countries. For instance, I have never seen a Japanese brand of soymilk but I once bought a Chinese brand (which I will never do again because of concerns about their safety).

Also, I know that SE Asian peeps eat tempeh but I don't know if they drink soymilk. I am not a huge fan of tempeh, despite all the ravings about how great it is. I don't like the texture or the taste but I occasionally buy it because I am not super picky. I buy Trader Joe's sprouted tofu and I really like it!

Have you heard of natto? *shudder* Now there's a fermented bean dish I am NEVER trying. Gag!

Hell to the NO! That is just nasty. What is up with that?

Nummy! [www.ynest.com]

Dr Doogle does say at the beginning that salt and sugar aren't great, and at the end he says that it's ok to add a little to your food so that you'll stick to the program. Now that suggests to me he's speaking to people who are transitioning to raw maybe. As after the taste buds have been replaced a few times, you really begin to just love the natural taste of raw food. I know that's what happened to me; although, I do still add a little soya sometimes haha.

I think it's going to get really hard to find non-gm soya, as non-gm farmers complain that there's cross pollenisation due to neighbouring farms who use gm soya.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People Make in their Diets:
.......Huh? He's against olive oil but doesn't mind sugar?

...and Salt?
I'm not pointing a finger, but you can tell a persons Diet (and well-being) by the 'look' in their Face. I watched the Video, and feel Dr. John McDougall has some work to do.
I agree with Geo that the Salt-and-Sugar issue is for Transition. A die-hard would never consider using them in any form......WY
P.S. Time to hunker down.

I think it's important to remember that he's a clinician who treats regular SAD patients with diabetes and heart problems, not just weight problems. Salt and sugar are metabolized by the body more quickly and efficiently than rendered oils, to be fair, so suggesting that someone SAD us these as a stop-gap to help adjust to the huge amount of raw produce they will be required to consume is fine, IMO.

We forget how averse other people are to eating the things we eat--their tastebuds literally rebel! I may like a huge baby arugula salad with lemon juice and cucumber, but I am used to those flavors and now find them delightful. Had I been required to eat something like that as a 19-year-old fast food junkie, I'd have fought tooth and nail not to

Don't get me wrong--I use raw salt and less-processed sugar in my diet (and sometimes the evil stuff ). What I was reacting to is that he lumps in olive oil with the other types. We were talking recently about the best fat and I am starting to realize that olive oil is not in its whole form in the same way as is avocado. He (Dr. M) was convincing me of avoiding the oil and then he starts in on salt and sugar (and doesn't seem to stress a RAW salt or sugar!).

Olive oil is monounsaturated so if one is cooking, it is better-suited for heating versus the poly oils. I use it exclusively (although I do have some coconut oil on hand). Since he's not a raw-fooder, I wonder how he makes stirfry. The idea of cooking with no oil is heretical to me!

BW when I cook (stir fry, soup etc) I use water. Seriously. That might not do if you were frying something like pancakes but if I need to cook a thing that gets fried i use parchment paper and bake it in the oven. I think aside from salad dressing I don't really use any oil at all.

A bit of salt's OK in my book, it's just dehydrated sea water. Sugar though, nope. Not unless it's sucanat which is just dehydrated cane sugar juice. Still processed who-knows-how but not refined in any way.

I use Real Salt (have also tried Himalayan and Celtic). I have used Sucanat but it is good for particular things (oatmeal, for ex.). It has a strong flavor and I have found most to taste rather burnt.

I like raw honey. Do NOT like agave. I recently bought a bottle of the raw kind and it tasted very chemically laden.

I also use turbinado sugar (called "raw" sugar but who knows what that means). Tastes good, less processed!

Agave = blech. Doesn't it taste just like corn syrup? So super sweet, it's disgusting.
Succanat does have a specific flavour, that's the taste of the minerals in it. I like it here and there (there's been a small jar in the cupboard for about 2 years, lol).
Most "brown" sugars are just refined white with some molasses added back in. I've had a block of natural sugar cane juice from Costa Rica though, it's cooked down to what looks like an enormous caramel candy brick and you hack piece off as needed.
For oats I soak and puree raisins and/or dates and add that to the cooking water, I add whole raisins too and chunks of apple. The kids love it, it's plenty sweet enough for them that way.
Dates are my go to for sweetener, blended or the soak water. I use in moderation though, trying to minimize food that came from far, far away.

Turbinado isn't the same as the brown sugar, though. Turbinado is slightly processed so that there are crystals and it doesn't taste too strong (which probably means the reduction of mineral context). But it's not totally granulated, nor is it bleached with animal bones

Interesting "produced by extracting the juice from sugar cane, heating it to evaporate water and crystallise the sugar, then spinning in a centrifuge to remove some impurities and further dry the sugar."

I've never seen this one before, I'm going to look it up.
"Muscovado sugar, or "Barbados sugar", is an unrefined, darker natural brown sugar that is produced without spinning in a centrifuge."

Not that I plan on buying up a bunch of sugar but I do sometimes still bake for the school etc. I love offering organic healthy versions of stuff at those bake sales, even if they don't love me for it, lol.

Whoa, look what I found!
[www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 05:50PM by coco.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BW when I cook (stir fry, soup etc) I use water.
> Seriously. That might not do if you were frying
> something like pancakes but if I need to cook a
> thing that gets fried i use parchment paper and
> bake it in the oven. I think aside from salad
> dressing I don't really use any oil at all.


As it happens baking may be just as bad as frying. This time the problem is not so much in oil being cooked, but in the food being cooked in high temperature. In these conditions many foods people usually bake/fry produce acrlylamide. Wikipedia has a good article on it but basically it is a possible carcinogen.

And here's the list of common products and amount of acrylamide they contain: [www.fda.gov]

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2012 05:03PM by chat.

Soy milk is a horrible food stuff but I have eaten it over the years prior to my rawfood teachings, alot of it lol. Look out for Carrageenan as one of the ingredients, it is extracted from seaweed with the use of petrochemical solvents! I am not telling people to not eat soy because it has it's place but it is an acid forming food. So if you want to be alkaline don't eat to much of it. I'm not saying don't eat salt either but for those who have digestive issues, it dilutes your digestine. I have always though that people who have horrible diets but are still around and for the most part no serious health issues are benifiting from the large amounts of salt they eat. I think they are actually preventing some pathogens from taking up house in their guts lol. Nothing that I know of will survive in this kind of enviroment, salty.

I drink soy milk every day. My two fave soymilks are Westsoy Original Organic (sweetened with brown rice syrup and not fortified and Edensoy soy-rice blend(.
According to an article, neither contains carrageenan, so you cannot generalize:


"Varied Ingredients Among Brands
Carrageenan appeared as an ingredient in the Silk, Organic Valley and ZenSoy products, but not in the EdenSoy and WestSoy soy milk products."

[www.ehow.com]

I'm considering incorporating tofu into the diet, possibly only occasionally. The organic version doesn't have anything apart from water, soya beans and nigari.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

rzman10001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Soy milk is a horrible food stuff but I have eaten
> it over the years prior to my rawfood teachings,
> alot of it lol. Look out for Carrageenan as one
> of the ingredients, it is extracted from seaweed
> with the use of petrochemical solvents! I am not
> telling people to not eat soy because it has it's
> place but it is an acid forming food. So if you
> want to be alkaline don't eat to much of it. I'm
> not saying don't eat salt either but for those who
> have digestive issues, it dilutes your digestine.
> I have always though that people who have horrible
> diets but are still around and for the most part
> no serious health issues are benifiting from the
> large amounts of salt they eat. I think they are
> actually preventing some pathogens from taking up
> house in their guts lol. Nothing that I know of
> will survive in this kind of enviroment, salty.


I did not generalize! here is my quote: "Look out for Carrageenan as one of the ingredients" Purley just a PSA in case you did not notice.

<Purley just a PSA in case you did not notice>


??? What is "purley?"

You began by stating that "soymilk is a horrible food." If it doesn't contain carrageenan, would you feel just as strongly about it? I am not too fond of almond milk, to be quite honest. It feels off to me, for some reason. I am not against consuming fat, but it seems too heavy as a beverage. I like that soymilk (the brands I mentioned, at least) is lower in fat and I like the flavor.

A bit off-topic, I'm also a bit afraid of fat (well of extra calories it brings), so when I first made some almond milk I used more water than what is required traditionally (I used 1:6 instead of 1:4 ratio). It stil tasted ok, think. I used it in a smoothie, and it definitely made the smoothie creamier.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

Chat, I have done the same. Thinning it out is a great idea. Some of the recipes call for a 1:3 ratio of nuts to water. That's too thick, IMO! The real issue for me, though, is that if I want to use chia seeds, I just don't want nuts + seeds. Too often raw recipes will double up on the fats. For instance, raw granola and almond milk. Well, if the granola contains nuts and/or seeds in it, that is just too much use of nuts! I am not even talking calories here but simply the overconsumption of the same foods.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> ??? What is "purley?"
>
> You began by stating that "soymilk is a horrible
> food." If it doesn't contain carrageenan, would
> you feel just as strongly about it? I am not too
> fond of almond milk, to be quite honest. It feels
> off to me, for some reason. I am not against
> consuming fat, but it seems too heavy as a
> beverage. I like that soymilk (the brands I
> mentioned, at least) is lower in fat and I like
> the flavor.


I like it to banana, and imo it is still not good just because it does not have carrageenan. Non of it is good but if you enjoy it then go for it. It's too prossesed.

l love some of the stuff that this man has to say (not about the sugar or salt though), and l love the health people who have that classic clear skin like Dr McDougall has got, it shows he practises what he preaches.

l am very against including extracted oils in the diet too. You might enjot adding oils to the vegan diet, but oils may even risk stripping the body if the diet isn't nutritious enough because such a concentrated substance will require good amounts of B vitamins and other nutrients to properly digest the oils, so if you are living on celery and corroits and other store bought vegetables it probably won't be enough so eventually the body will be run down on nutritional reserves. + oils acidify the body and risk overloading the body with fat...especially if vegans are already eating nuts, avocatos and other such high fat items.

Now it's true that all animal products are bad, but studies by good researchers show that certain animal products are worst than others. For example; Dr Campbell showed in `The China Study' that there was a stronger correlation between dairy products and all forms of cancer than between smoking and lung cancer. WOW!!! lt has also been said by Dr Clement that dairy spreads cancer 5 times faster than any meat. lt is the casein (an abundant milk protein in 80% of dairy foods) which is supposed to cause this cancer. And a highly respected doctor called Dr Virginia Livingston (researched for 45 years) said that out of all meats that poultry was the most cancer causing. She scientifically showed that a certain leukemic virus from poultry (cooked and raw) that transfers into the human body that increases chances of leukemia and also mutates cells in every form of cancer known to man.

l especially like how he finally blows the common food mythgs away and talks about not needing a large variety of foods. Hooray! Plant eating animals in nature don't eat a large variety of foods, and neither do we if we eat FRESH foods full of nutrition. lf you are eating shop or farmers market vegetables you probably do need a larger variety, but if you living off freshly grown grasses, weeds, sprouts, algaes and sea weeds then you certainly don't need a large variety, especially if you also meditate. l have a friend who lives off a small handful of lentil sprouts each day and has thrived for years with perfect bloodwork. l have another friend who has lived off 3 or 4 almonds a day for many years and looks 30 years his junior, but the man is highly spiritual and meditates all night and hasn't been to bed in over 10 years. Other people have reportedly lived off grass and weeds [like animals] and seem to do well. The people at HHI live off a simple sprout diet and eat almost the same everyday (Dr Brian Clement, Ann Wigmore and Viktoras Kulvinskas have done so) and they thrive because they eat fresh highly nutritious foods high in electrical frequency...THAT IS THE KEY!!! lf cows can survive on grass, we can survive on maybe 5 or 6 foods.

Good point about vegans too. lt is such a simple diet, but so many folks make it hard by not eating fresh, eating too much fruit, too much fat, too many super foods from packets and no way near enough fresh greens. But if you eat lots of FRESH home grown greens you are 3/4 of the way there.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2012 03:17PM by The Sproutarian Man.