[rawfoodsos.com]

Thanks for the great article fresh!

I think modern fruit is still a very good food.
The problem is with the way we are eating it.
There is no food more convenient, readily available than fruit.
Another issue is that some folks make it the main food.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2014 05:27PM by CommonSenseRaw.

And some of those folks have been doing that successfully for 30 years.
but dont let reality intrude on your belief system.

"And some of those folks have been doing that successfully for 30 years."

What is "successfully"?

Of course there are wild animals whose main food is fruit but and but they do eat flowers and other things such as bugs, insects.

The problem for us humans is that we eat clean fruits.

well either you've done it and know others who have and you've proved it to yourself, or you have not, and no amount of evidence will convince you, if you have an irrational bias against it.

people making vague negative pronouncements like
"Another issue is that some folks make it the main food"

without any real negative evidence, and with real evidence all around if you care to look is rather tiresome and anti intellectual.

just like in the other thread where clement stated his nonsense prescription of candida, while others healed on fruit.

Do you remember The FruitarianOne on this forum?
And there were many people like him.
Nowhere to be found now.

CommonSenseRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course there are wild animals whose main food
> is fruit but and but they do eat flowers and other
> things such as bugs, insects.
>
> The problem for us humans is that we eat clean
> fruits.


MAIN food does not mean ONLY food, right?

so there's no difference from your above wild animals and humans who eat their MAIN food as fruit plus other foods.

with respect to your clean foods that is maybe only a problem with respect to b12.
big deal.

CommonSenseRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you remember The FruitarianOne on this forum?
> And there were many people like him.
> Nowhere to be found now.


do you have a point to make?
nobody is talking about ONLY fruits except maybe you,
and in that case you should be more clear.

Fresh, why don't you eat nuts?

I used to love pistachios, I mean what could be better, they're begging to be eaten, they open up for you!

and I used to like the taste I guess.
and other nuts and seeds too.

then over time they became less tasty to me ,
coupled with my fresh, raw,
high water content, food as a meal, etc qualifications,
they just don't qualify.

high water content is critical in my experience - low water content opens up a whole host of problems not solved by drinking water.

plus nutrient wise I did not find anything there that was not available in fruits and greens .

but I'm sure you'll find something in there I'm missing that causes me to be "angry" lol.

this is a digression but now that you mention it, I was thinking that TSM said here recently that he had skin problems that were helped by drinking urine.

my thoughts on that are

- nut/seed paste is Highly likely to have caused skin problems but it depends on quantity and state of body, etc
and
- drinking urine could have caused an associated decrease in nut/seed paste intake, which may have been the real cause of the skin improvements, since it's very small chance that urine would heal skin imo.

High water content food is the fundamental nutrition equation.
Simply because our body is about 80 percent water.
It solves every nutrition question.
Seeds and nuts have to be soaked and sprouted to gradually reabsorb water.
It is the single most important rule I use in everything I eat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2014 06:47PM by RawPracticalist.

"- drinking urine could have caused an associated decrease in nut/seed paste intake, which may have been the real cause of the skin improvements, since it's very small chance that urine would heal skin imo."

You always say "imo" but rarely give any evidence to back up those claims and then ignore evidence presented contrary to what you're saying. You expect everyone else to provide substantial evidence (and even then you reject it if disagrees with you) but never provide any of your own.

"but I'm sure you'll find something in there I'm missing that causes me to be "angry" lol."

Now that you bring this up, a huge portion of your posts are in fact either defensive, insults, or sarcasm-based. That says more than you claiming you're "thriving"... "imo".

"low water content opens up a whole host of problems not solved by drinking water."

What host of problems does eating nuts present?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2014 06:50PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "- drinking urine could have caused an associated
> decrease in nut/seed paste intake, which may have
> been the real cause of the skin improvements,
> since it's very small chance that urine would heal
> skin imo."
>
> You always say "imo" but rarely give any evidence
> to back up those claims and then ignore evidence
> presented contrary to what you're saying. You
> expect everyone else to provide substantial
> evidence (and even then you reject it if disagrees
> with you) but never provide any of your own.
>

maybe because you always want studies.

Instead of imo, I would say ime (in my experience)
and in my observations of others food intake/skin issues.

> "but I'm sure you'll find something in there I'm
> missing that causes me to be "angry" lol."
>
> Now that you bring this up, a huge portion of your
> posts are in fact either defensive, insults, or
> sarcasm-based. That says more than you claiming
> you're "thriving"... "imo".

and there it is.

so if any person has a certain percentage of words that you find distasteful, that means they're not thriving. sure. ok.

and if a person continuously makes rubbish claims on the internet, or does not modify ideas based on new data, does that mean they're not "thriving" mentally? could be. could be insufficient fruit intake.


>
> "low water content opens up a whole host of
> problems not solved by drinking water."
>
> What host of problems does eating nuts present?

ime, gum irritation , dehydration, they are rarely or never fresh and raw, they contain antinutrients, overeating...

and by the way, I'm sure you have the mechanism for urine healing skin?
that may be the source of my skepticism - no mechanism other than from pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2014 07:04PM by fresh.

"they are rarely or never fresh and raw"

You can find raw nuts everywhere. Store-bought fruit is not fresh, either. As far as anti-nutrients go... that's what sprouting is for, plus fruits contain anti-nutrients as well.

"ime, gum irritation , dehydration"

Just as you say to powerlifter all the time, your experience does not apply to everyone.

"so if any person has a certain percentage of words that you find distasteful, that means they're not thriving. sure. ok."

You're changing the subject, it was never about me or my opinion of your words, it's about YOUR actions.

"and if a person continuously makes rubbish claims on the internet, or does not modify ideas based on new data, does that mean they're not "thriving" mentally? could be. could be insufficient fruit intake."

Wouldn't know, doesn't apply to me. I use a combination of my own experiences and scientific/anecdotal evidence. I don't ignore evidence if it doesn't agree with my current beliefs, that would be cognitive dissonance.

"maybe because you always want studies."

No, just any type of evidence. For one who makes as many claims as you do, all you ever seem to justify it with is your own experience. Forgive me if I don't blindly accept what you say just because you say it or experienced it.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "they are rarely or never fresh and raw"
>
> You can find raw nuts everywhere.

they are not raw, they are dried in heat generally.


> Store-bought
> fruit is not fresh, either.

fresh enough. not dried.
most nutrient losses are in veggies, not fruit,
although of course some in fruit.

As far as
> anti-nutrients go... that's what sprouting is for,
> plus fruits contain anti-nutrients as well.

fruit? very few anti-nutrients.

good, so that eliminates some of the anti- nutrients in nuts
enjoy your nuts then, don't let me stop you!
other qualities I don't like as I said.
you just seem to look at individual qualities and seek nutrients.
I don't.
we are different and unique.



>
> "ime, gum irritation , dehydration"
>
> Just as you say to powerlifter all the time, your
> experience does not apply to everyone.
>

no doubt


> "so if any person has a certain percentage of
> words that you find distasteful, that means
> they're not thriving. sure. ok."
>
> You're changing the subject, it was never about me
> or my opinion of your words, it's about YOUR
> actions.
>

you are free to characterize me in any way you want to.
it's irrelevant to me.

> "and if a person continuously makes rubbish claims
> on the internet, or does not modify ideas based on
> new data, does that mean they're not "thriving"
> mentally? could be. could be insufficient fruit
> intake."
>
> Wouldn't know, doesn't apply to me. I use a
> combination of my own experiences and
> scientific/anecdotal evidence. I don't ignore
> evidence if it doesn't agree with my current
> beliefs, that would be cognitive dissonance.
>

cool


> "maybe because you always want studies."
>
> No, just any type of evidence. For one who makes
> as many claims as you do, all you ever seem to
> justify it with is your own experience. Forgive me
> if I don't blindly accept what you say just
> because you say it or experienced it.


and that's what we are free to do here, share our experience
and evidence in the way we choose.

what I think is that while we are different in many ways,
we are all very similar, and the experiences we have we can
share and each person can determine if it rings true to them.

you will find that I provide evidence or support for anything
I am asked to, unlike others who avoid when the questions get too difficult.

ok, let's compare my "nuts/seeds cause skin issues in my experience"

(people can then take that little tidbit and experiment on themselves
if they have skin problems - no evidence/study needed.)

with

paraphrasing...."fruit is dubious garbage from the store and can't support a human being and causes acidity."

or "blending kills the life force, blahblah blah"


which ones might you think require a bit more Evidence, eh, genius?


or for that matter, "heated water causes the plants to die"

some guy at HHI told me so.

any evidence of that? any study for that? no?

and TSM wonders why people give him monkey talk?

stop making wild claims and you won't get any monkey talk.
(this is directed at TSM, not you)

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2014 07:57PM by fresh.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> but I'm sure you'll find something in there I'm
> missing that causes me to be "angry" lol.
----
lol, that was a good joke.

[www.youtube.com]

For me personally, fruit is my main (not only) food. I eat as much fruit as I like, and it always feels good. Never any problems. Same with flowers, which I often eat.

My secondary main food is nuts/seeds, and my meals often consist of fruits and nuts/seeds only. I absolutely could not stay raw without nuts/seeds, but I do have to restrict them somewhat. Flowers/fruits/nuts/seeds - all come from the same flowering part of the plant, and feel best to me. Flower power.

Greens are hardest on my digestion and overall energy level, so I eat less greens than fruits/nuts/seeds. I do seem to require some greens, but just not very much. I do better with sea greens than land greens, so I'm fortunate that where I live, fresh harvested seaweeds are often available.

Most often, I follow a treefood seafood flower power diet.

"they are not raw, they are dried in heat generally."

Depends on the source, it's not hard to find quality RAW nuts.

"fruit? very few anti-nutrients."

Like sprouted nuts.

"you just seem to look at individual qualities and seek nutrients.
I don't."

You can eat a lot of high-water foods while also eating nuts. Yes, my food choices are largely influenced by nutrition (phytochemicals, phytohormones, enzymes, vitamins, minerals, etc), I also happen to enjoy the taste of these foods. Eating strictly for taste is a SAD mentality.

"ok, let's compare my "nuts/seeds cause skin issues in my experience""

Maybe you have some type of allergy.

"any evidence of that? any study for that? no?"

Aside from what Brian Clement has reported on blending, which I see no reason for him to lie, especially when he admits to using blended foods at HHI (as a transitional food), you have the experiment where plants fed blended watered died very quickly (fruits and vegetables are mostly water). These are both bits of evidence.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Eating strictly for taste is a SAD mentality.
>

ridiculous.

eating for taste is critical to determine what to eat.
not eating for taste denies the purpose of tastebuds
and causes one to eat improper foods.

we can disagree.

> "ok, let's compare my "nuts/seeds cause skin
> issues in my experience""
>
> Maybe you have some type of allergy.

you're missing the point

>
> "any evidence of that? any study for that? no?"
>
> Aside from what Brian Clement has reported on
> blending, which I see no reason for him to lie,
> especially when he admits to using blended foods
> at HHI (as a transitional food), you have the
> experiment where plants fed blended watered died
> very quickly (fruits and vegetables are mostly
> water). These are both bits of evidence.

and my point, again is that those "bits" are of a character
that requires something more.

once again, you can't see this because you are simply being argumentative.
mental health problems caused by diet?

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For me personally, fruit is my main (not only)
> food. I eat as much fruit as I like, and it
> always feels good. Never any problems. Same with
> flowers, which I often eat.
>
> My secondary main food is nuts/seeds, and my meals
> often consist of fruits and nuts/seeds only. I
> absolutely could not stay raw without nuts/seeds,

right, I used to be the same about avocadoes.

> but I do have to restrict them somewhat.
> Flowers/fruits/nuts/seeds - all come from the same
> flowering part of the plant, and feel best to me.
> Flower power.

nice

>
> Greens are hardest on my digestion and overall
> energy level, so I eat less greens than
> fruits/nuts/seeds. I do seem to require some
> greens, but just not very much. I do better with
> sea greens than land greens, so I'm fortunate that
> where I live, fresh harvested seaweeds are often
> available.
>
> Most often, I follow a treefood seafood flower
> power diet.

I like it!

> Aside from what Brian Clement has reported on
> blending, which I see no reason for him to lie,

as I have said many times, he supports his health niche in any way he can, distorting, not providing evidence, etc.

and you merely believe because of what you think of his character, when he has been shown to be fast and loose with the facts many times, as has wolfe, who you still idolize and when pointed to his illogical statements you consider it "petty".

so I could present you with the same tidbit about heated water from another person like me or dr graham and you would say, where's the evidence.

for me the evidence should stand on its own regardless of the source.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2014 09:01PM by fresh.

"eating for taste is critical to determine what to eat.
not eating for taste denies the purpose of tastebuds
and causes one to eat improper foods."

If that was the case, nobody would enjoy the taste of processed foods as they are improper. Everyone has different tastes but everyone needs nutrition. There are many foods that don't taste well that are very, very good for you. Something not tasting good is in no way an indication that it's not healthy or proper to eat.

"once again, you can't see this because you are simply being argumentative.
mental health problems caused by diet?"

You're blind assumption is incorrect, I'm not being argumentative, there are multiple sources discrediting blending, that's evidence.

"and you merely believe because of what you think of his character, when he has been shown to be fast and loose with the facts many times, as has wolfe, who you still idolize and when pointed to his illogical statements you consider it "petty"".

I think you're just jealous of both Brian Clement and David Wolfe because of their vast knowledge and success and you'd like to falsely think of yourself as someone who is knowledgeable when it comes to health and nutrition and don't like seeing others who are much more intelligent when it comes to these matters. Brian Clement talking about blending doesn't do anything to financially support HHI... he encourages people to eat the HHI diet, that does not mean you have to go to HHI to do so.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For me personally, fruit is my main (not only)
> food. I eat as much fruit as I like, and it
> always feels good. Never any problems. Same with
> flowers, which I often eat.
>
> My secondary main food is nuts/seeds, and my meals
> often consist of fruits and nuts/seeds only. I
> absolutely could not stay raw without nuts/seeds,
> but I do have to restrict them somewhat.
> Flowers/fruits/nuts/seeds - all come from the same
> flowering part of the plant, and feel best to me.
> Flower power.
>
> Greens are hardest on my digestion and overall
> energy level, so I eat less greens than
> fruits/nuts/seeds. I do seem to require some
> greens, but just not very much. I do better with
> sea greens than land greens, so I'm fortunate that
> where I live, fresh harvested seaweeds are often
> available.
>
> Most often, I follow a treefood seafood flower
> power diet.

I would like to get into eating flowers.
Where do you get yours especially in the winter?
Flowers in store are said not to be ok to eat.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If that was the case, nobody would enjoy the taste
> of processed foods as they are improper.

my statement only applies to raw food.

>Everyone
> has different tastes but everyone needs nutrition.
> There are many foods that don't taste well that
> are very, very good for you. Something not tasting
> good is in no way an indication that it's not
> healthy or proper to eat.
>

I am not saying that it doesn't contain nutrients that have some benefit
to the body.
I am saying I think it's important to not eat something that does not taste good.
and to eat those things that taste good.

for me at times that includes various greens and celery and such.

I don't know why you would want to eat something that you find distasteful
but I know many people do it, and disguise their foods in an effort to get nutrients.


>
> I think you're just jealous of both Brian Clement
> and David Wolfe because of their vast knowledge
> and success and you'd like to falsely think of
> yourself as someone who is knowledgeable when it
> comes to health and nutrition and don't like
> seeing others who are much more intelligent when
> it comes to these matters.

you make me laugh sometimes.
have a good day.

"I am saying I think it's important to not eat something that does not taste good.
and to eat those things that taste good."

And different things taste good or bad to different people, but the nutritional profile stays the same. If something is extremely healthy but you do not enjoy the taste, why is it bad to eat it? Do you think the body rejects the nutrition if the taste buds weren't fully satisfied? Tastebuds also adjust.

"but I know many people do it, and disguise their foods in an effort to get nutrients."

So? For example (not my situation, I enjoy the taste of sprouts), if someone wants to eat sprout salads but doesn't like the taste of sprouts too much, why is it bad if someone puts a homemade dressing on it to make it taste better for them? You're alluding towards eating tons of fruit because it may taste better due to the sugar, but that doesn't indicate it's better for you.

"you make me laugh sometimes.
have a good day."

It's just what you show in your posts. Anytime a true guru or a doctor states something you seem to always say something negative or try to discredit them in any way possible... like you have an ill will towards them. Jealousy is the likely culprit. That's not an insult, just saying what it is. Hey fresh, it's okay to admit other people know more than you do, denying it doesn't change anything anyways. Ego will only hold you back.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

ok this is the last one.

by the way, I understand your position and am not saying you're wrong.
I merely believe differently.

> And different things taste good or bad to
> different people, but the nutritional profile
> stays the same. If something is extremely healthy
> but you do not enjoy the taste, why is it bad to
> eat it?

because our body needs/wants different things at different times.


Do you think the body rejects the
> nutrition if the taste buds weren't fully
> satisfied? Tastebuds also adjust.
>

I wouldn't say that. I would say that our senses
help to determine negative aspects of foods due to excessively bitter
or whatever even though it may have nutrients that you would say
are beneficial.

of course our tastebuds also detect high and low quality foods
which is confirmed by brix testing.

if you disguise foods you are going to eat low quality foods like taking avocado and making guac by adding things. nothing "wrong" with it - just doesn't lead to eating highest quality to me.

> "but I know many people do it, and disguise their
> foods in an effort to get nutrients."
>
> So? For example (not my situation, I enjoy the
> taste of sprouts), if someone wants to eat sprout
> salads but doesn't like the taste of sprouts too
> much, why is it bad if someone puts a homemade
> dressing on it to make it taste better for them?


> You're alluding towards eating tons of fruit
> because it may taste better due to the sugar, but
> that doesn't indicate it's better for you.

not really. taste is dynamic over time and people have different preferences
and I'm not necessarily saying eating tons of fruit at all.
I mean, I'm not going to continue eating an avocado if it's of
poor quality just because I think I need a certain amount of fat that day.
I'm not going to eat sprouts because I think sprouts
are good for you. thinking is secondary to me. sensing is primary.

as an example, many people have gotten ill from blending something too bitter or that they wouldn't otherwise chew. same for sprouts with dressing. you're losing a sense input.


> It's just what you show in your posts. Anytime a
> true guru or a doctor states something you seem to
> always say something negative or try to discredit
> them in any way possible...

there's no gurus

you're only focusing on what I say when I challenge a concept
- you wouldn't notice those times I agree with someone
so your impression is biased.

it's not about personalities - merely challenging concepts.

>like you have an ill
> will towards them.

not ill will. I don't like nonsense talk that's accepted uncritically.
and I don't particularly like "gurus" with an attitude like clement.
not a big deal though. I don't lie awake at night plotting.

>Jealousy is the likely culprit.

yes I know you think that and there's nothing I can say to dissuade you from that.
but I have no jealousy.
that's pointless.

> That's not an insult, just saying what it is. Hey
> fresh, it's okay to admit other people know more
> than you do, denying it doesn't change anything
> anyways. Ego will only hold you back.

again, you can believe that if you want.

I can only presume that is something that YOU think about yourself
and are projecting it onto me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2014 11:40PM by fresh.

"as an example, many people have gotten ill from blending something too bitter or that they wouldn't otherwise chew. same for sprouts with dressing. you're losing a sense input."

WHY would someone get sick from eating something that is really nutritious just because they mixed it with other things that are also nutritious to make it taste better? People need to sense all of the food they eat to garner benefit from it? I'm not referring to eating a food that has started to rot.

"not ill will. I don't like nonsense talk that's accepted uncritically.
and I don't particularly like "gurus" with an attitude like clement."

That's the thing, much of these things aren't just "accepted uncritically", you do it with scientific studies. All you need to do is look at the success of HHI to realize that they (in large part due to Clement) know what they are doing. Brian Clement is human, he's not going to be in the greatest, loving mood during all of his lectures, all the time.

"I can only presume that is something that YOU think about yourself
and are projecting it onto me."

What is this, an adult way of saying "I know you are but what am I"?