Matt, thanks for your blog.

I was watching the recent clip of Joe Cordell, and while he has a nice youthful body, his face looks every bit his age if not older, and I am pretty sure he has had an eye job. He has a lot of bone loss in his face especially around his chin. His diet looks to be high raw, quasi-vegan.

Luigi, on the other hand, who has stated he follows a mostly cooked macrobiotic diet with some fish, is looking much better. I do not know the age difference. I assume Luigi is in his late 40s.

Maybe the difference is due to Northern vs. Southern European, Luigi has built-in SPF 8 or so compared to Joe.

But still I find it interesting that there is such a huge difference in their facial aging.

Links please...

[www.youtube.com]

Maybe Fontana is younger than I thought. His faculty page states that he graduated from Medical School in 1994. So he might be mid 40s instead of 50.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2015 02:46PM by arugula.

the one leg stand was an interesting test! thanks for the video link

Hi! Glad you like it!

Luigi is 45 years old and doesn't really follow a CR diet or raw food diet. His diet is a Mediterranean diet. He grew up on a farm and had a decent diet for most of his life, but no protection from sun damage. He travels around a lot and gets a lot of sun exposure -- it's pretty evident just by looking..

For anyone that doesn't know, Lugi was based at WUSTL in the US where he studies people on various diets and extreme athletes. He mainly studies people on raw food diets, and people on calorie restriction to look at how these diets differ in their effects on health and how they change a persons "biomarkers" to a phenotype that is typical of people who live a long time or similar to animals that live a long time such as IGF-1 +/-; GHKO mice; or other animals on CR.

Joe has a lot of sun exposure. He's a lawyer and lives in CA, I believe. It doesn't look like he's protected his skin.

Check this longer interview [youtu.be]

Also, I recommend you check out this video: [youtu.be]

David has been doing this for over 20 years and looks great. He also lives here in the UK

-------------------------------------------
My blog: [www.crvitality.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2015 05:07PM by mattscr.

Yeah, I've seen those. I wish the one on David weren't so distorted. But I think David is doing a better job of preserving himself.

Luigi's BMI looks a lot lower than David's or Joe's. He might not self-identify as Cr'd but that's basically what he is, unless is is taking in 4000 kcal/day and riding his bicycle 20 miles/day or whatnot.

Personally I am backing off the CR idea and increasing exercise.

I would rather stick with whole foods, plants and eat as much as I want, as long as I don't chase after protein. Or extra fat, for that matter.

[www.cell.com]

I'm not sure, I could ask him... :p

Sorry, I recorded it on a the DVR a long time ago and uploaded it. David looks pretty good, though. I won't share a picture without his permission.

No matter how many vegetables or fruits someone takes in, you're not going to prevent all the damage caused by the sun... But you will probably lessen the damage a bit. So if you care about staying young-looking, then you'll probably stay very young looking for a long time if you combine a healthy diet with sun protection. If you don't care about how old you look, then it doesn't really matter I guess.

masako mizutani is a great example of a healthy diet + skincare and sun protection. She looks super young... Her bmi is around 17.4, so it low... but she is otherwise a healthy bunny lol

See her and her daughter: [www.facebook.com]

Do what you feel is right!

I simply follow what the science says...

I'm aware of that study. I lowered my protein intake a while before that because the lowering of IGF-1, I believe, partially explains the increase in longevity in CR animals. IGF-1r mutant animals still benefit from CR, however. But lower IGF-1 is certainly part of the equation... especially for its anti-cancer effect.

There's a group of Ecuadorean people that have zero cancer and zero diabetes, but can live however they want. They don't tend to live until extreme ages because they die from accidents and alcohol related deaths (liver damage) unfortunately. But the data is consistent with animal models with that have exceptionally low IGF-1.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2015 05:46PM by mattscr.

Arugula wrote:
Personally I am backing off the CR idea and increasing exercise.

Tai:
Could anyone explain for me what this means, since I have never studied CR? Does it mean that inceasing exercise increases cell turnover and metabolism and since cell replication is finite, aging is increased? Does using the rebounder (mini trampoline) increase metabolism, when it is used more as a lymphatic and not an aerobic exercise?

By the way, Arugula, you notice if someone has had bone loss around their eyes or chin. WHat determines that and doesn't exercise (as in weight bearing exercise) play a role? I once met a long-term vegan (middle aged man) and noticed his lower jaw bones looked atrophied. It frightened me. What makes ones jaws or chin or eye bones lose bone? Does it happen uniformly or in isolated spots?

mattscr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> No matter how many vegetables or fruits someone
> takes in, you're not going to prevent all the
> damage caused by the sun... But you will probably
> lessen the damage a bit.

Damage typically occurs after 2.54 minutes of exposure.

A good diet might allow 10 minutes. Not much more than that.

>So if you care about
> staying young-looking, then you'll probably stay
> very young looking for a long time if you combine
> a healthy diet with sun protection. If you don't
> care about how old you look, then it doesn't
> really matter I guess.

PPD30+ from Europe is the best. They measure UVA
protection overtly there.

Peak sagging occurs around 340 NM and most sunscreens
don't offer a lot at that wavelength because SPF
measures UVB protection only.

> masako mizutani is a great example of a healthy
> diet + skincare and sun protection. She looks
> super young... Her bmi is around 17.4, so it
> low... but she is otherwise a healthy bunny
> lol

They say she looks closer to her age on TV. Her
real challenge will be after menopause. Many women
decline rapidly after that.

But to some extent it's easier for women because they
can do fillers and lifts without as much social
stigma.

I think a lot of Asians can tolerate lower BMIs
than Westerners with no adverse effect.

> See her and her daughter:
> [www.facebook.com]
> 3063154&set=pb.635673153.-2207520000.1424626408.&t
> ype=3&theater

They understand the importance of skin protection.

> Do what you feel is right!
>
> I simply follow what the science says...

I do too, but I am not impressed with the looks of
those who have been obsessively measuring every
gram and every biomarker for the last 15 years
or so. They look like they are aging on schedule with
the only difference being that they are thinner.

They have great biomarkers but they don't look it.

One of them was looking particularly haggard, but I
recently learned that she is HIV positive, which
explains a lot.

> I'm aware of that study. I lowered my protein
> intake a while before that because the lowering of
> IGF-1, I believe, partially explains the increase
> in longevity in CR animals. IGF-1r mutant animals
> still benefit from CR, however. But lower IGF-1 is
> certainly part of the equation... especially for
> its anti-cancer effect.

I lowered mine in 2007. I also lowered fat back then.

But I don't measure my food in grams, I am not afraid
to eat raw salad vegetables due to bacterial contamination,
I am not chasing after the legumes with only the lowest
levels of methionine, I have no worries about getting
enough lycopene or anything like that, and I don't bring
a big cooler with me when I buy produce.

arugula,

can you be a little more precise on the time that causes damage in the sun

seems like one might risk getting enough vit D if worrying too much about skin problems over 3 minutes.

fresh wrote:
"seems like one might risk getting enough vit D if worrying too much about skin problems over 3 minutes."

That's absurd, like we were destined to build housing and live inside all our lives. Not being able to handle the Sun/Light is a sign of weakness and ill health. Put a pale skinned person naked outside at a river and see how absurd and out of place that person looks, completely unnatural...

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Arugula wrote:
> Personally I am backing off the CR idea and
> increasing exercise.
>
> Tai:
> Could anyone explain for me what this means, since
> I have never studied CR? Does it mean that
> inceasing exercise increases cell turnover and
> metabolism and since cell replication is finite,
> aging is increased? Does using the rebounder (mini
> trampoline) increase metabolism, when it is used
> more as a lymphatic and not an aerobic exercise?

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"Acute and chronic exercise can elevate the sanitization system of DNA damage in nucleotide pools and prevent oxidative DNA damage. Regular mild exercise, therefore, may have a beneficial effect on the prevention of cancer."

So it's probably worthwhile to be more active and take in
more calories. It also helps to fight scaropenia and lessen
bone loss.


> By the way, Arugula, you notice if someone has had
> bone loss around their eyes or chin. WHat
> determines that and doesn't exercise (as in weight
> bearing exercise) play a role?

It's a normal part of the aging process. We lose bone
mass everywhere including our faces.

Yes, I believe exercise helps. Chewing one's food and
including crunchy vegetables and nuts/seeds rather
than drinking juices and smoothies might be important.

> I once met a
> long-term vegan (middle aged man) and noticed his
> lower jaw bones looked atrophied. It frightened
> me. What makes ones jaws or chin or eye bones
> lose bone? Does it happen uniformly or in
> isolated spots?

When they measure bone loss, typical locations for
measurement are the spine, femoral neck, and hip.

In this study they found that BMD of the face changes
with age, similar to the axial skeleton

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

I think there is good evidence that a high f+v intake
is protective. One also needs adequate protein, minerals,
and an appropriate balance of minerals.

Weight bearing exercise is also helpful.

I think that holding lifestyle constant, the people who start
out with wide, strong jaws fare best. They have losses, too,
but since their start point is better, their end point at a
given age is also usually better, too.

Some plastic surgeons are doing prejaw implants to cover
up the dents that show up at the sides of the chin.
Also, you want to keep your teeth. If you have to get
one pulled, get an implant to take its place.

The eye sockets get bigger, which is one reason why older
people who just get filler look weird. You need the structure
restored as well as the filler. It's a much bigger problem
than just filling.

They also do under eye implants. But one would still have to
use filler to keep them edges of the implants from showing.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> arugula,
>
> can you be a little more precise on the time that
> causes damage in the sun
>

It's from a paper!
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

> seems like one might risk getting enough vit D if
> worrying too much about skin problems over 3
> minutes.

You can take a pill for that. Nowadays you can even
take a vegan pill for that.

NuNativs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh wrote:
> "seems like one might risk getting enough vit D if
> worrying too much about skin problems over 3
> minutes."
>
> That's absurd, like we were destined to build
> housing and live inside all our lives. Not being
> able to handle the Sun/Light is a sign of weakness
> and ill health. Put a pale skinned person naked
> outside at a river and see how absurd and out of
> place that person looks, completely unnatural...

i don't know what exactly you think is absurd, since you quoted me.

arugula,

scaropenia !!! sounds even SCARier than sarcopenia !!

and i think Tai was confused. your sentence could be interpreted to mean that you were reducing exercise, which is not what you meant, i don't think.

Pills and papers, that's the ticket....Substitute scriptures for papers, you get the idea.

"Seek not the law in your scriptures, for the law is life, whereas the scripture is dead. I tell you truly, Moses received not his laws from God in writing, but through the living word. The law is living word of living God to living prophets for living men. In everything that is life is the law written. You find it in the grass, in the tree, in the river, in the mountain, in the birds of heaven, in the fishes of the sea; but seek it chiefly in yourselves. For I tell you truly, all living things are nearer to God than the scripture which is without life. God so made life and all living things that they might by the everlasting word teach the laws of the true God to man. God wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit. They are in your breath, your blood, your bone; in your flesh, your bowels, your eyes, your ears, and in every little part of your body. They are present in the air, in the water, in the earth, in the plants, in th e sunbeams, in the depths and in the heights. They all speak to you that you may understand the tongue and the will of the living God. But you shut your eyes that you may not see, and you shut your ears that you may not hear. I tell you truly, that the scripture is the work of man, but life and all its hosts are the work of our God. Wherefore do you not listen to the words of God which are written in His works? And wherefore do you study the dead scriptures which are the work of the hands of men?""

NuNativs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh wrote:
> "seems like one might risk getting enough vit D if
> worrying too much about skin problems over 3
> minutes."
>
> That's absurd, like we were destined to build
> housing and live inside all our lives. Not being
> able to handle the Sun/Light is a sign of weakness
> and ill health. Put a pale skinned person naked
> outside at a river and see how absurd and out of
> place that person looks, completely unnatural...

A lot of Westerners are living in areas of high
insolation that are completely unnatural...

My next door neighbor was of a delicate Scottish
extraction. She spent 40 years in Panama. Her neck
sagged down to her chest. Her level of exposure
completely overwhelmed her body's biological
defenses.

I don't want that, thanks. I can enjoy being
outdoors without those consequences.

fresh Wrote:

> scaropenia !!! sounds even SCARier than sarcopenia
> !!

freudian slip.

Fresh wroteL
and i think Tai was confused. your sentence could be interpreted to mean that you were reducing exercise, which is not what you meant, i don't think.

Tai:
I understood she was increasing exercise. I was just intrigued by her and Matt's exchange on the topic and was wondering what the CR view is on exercise and aging. Also, some exercise does not increase metabolism. Look at some of the yogis in India that can slow their hearts down. I wonder what the CR people think of them. BUt I never studied CR, so I don't know.

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fresh wroteL
> and i think Tai was confused. your sentence could
> be interpreted to mean that you were reducing
> exercise, which is not what you meant, i don't
> think.
>
> Tai:
> I understood she was increasing exercise. I was
> just intrigued by her and Matt's exchange on the
> topic and was wondering what the CR view is on
> exercise and aging. Also, some exercise does not
> increase metabolism. Look at some of the yogis in
> India that can slow their hearts down. I wonder
> what the CR people think of them. BUt I never
> studied CR, so I don't know.

oh, ok, sorry. yeah, they think moderate exercise good, too much injurious, from what i understand.

NuNativs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pills and papers, that's the ticket....Substitute
> scriptures for papers, you get the idea.
>
> "Seek not the law in your scriptures, for the law
> is life, whereas the scripture is dead.

I disagree. We are a way for the universe to know itself.
I value biology, chemistry, biochemistry, anatomy,
physiology, photobiology, physics, and mathematics.

I appreciate the efforts of the people are devoting
their lives to making slight improvements for those
who follow them.

I do take B12 and D. B12 because I prefer the direct
bacterial route rather than the indirect flesh of the
host animal route, and D because I don't want the
elective damage from UV radiation.

I take no other pills, though.

arugula wrote:
"My next door neighbor was of a delicate Scottish
extraction. She spent 40 years in Panama. Her neck
sagged down to her chest. Her level of exposure
completely overwhelmed her body's biological
defenses. "

What was her diet like? Did she get regular activity? Did she regularly go nude in WILD waters? What are her belief systems?

Making people scared of the Life giving Sun/Light is irresponsible in my opinion, as everything you see came from and is animated by said Light. It is the closest thing to "God" that WE have. The Earth is simply a piece of Light that has cooled down as evidenced by it's molten core and it's constant orbit around the magnetism of the parent LIGHT.

The schism that was enforced on the Native peoples was simply that, make them cut their hair/antenna, work indoors as slaves, get an "education" so that they can no longer think or feel, but chiefly remove them from the Source of all Life on Earth.

You can't think your way out of a paper bag at that point...

arugula wrote:
"We are a way for the universe to know itself."

Well on that WE can agree. But what is the Universe, is is Light/Sound energy in motion. You cannot "know" Life away from Life/Light, that's an equation you cannot solve. In my opinion, if you want to know "yourself" you MUST come to merge and know the Sun/Light since that is where the Earth and everything on it came from, and it's Sun, and it's Sun, and it's Sun...

>What was her diet like? Did she get regular activity? Did she regularly go nude in WILD waters? What are her belief systems?

She was a Protestant. I am not sure which denomination. It reminds me of the Emo Phillips joke:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

I don't know if she went swimming in the nude. She was far too proper
to discuss such a thing with me.

She was active in youth. When I met her, she was in her 80s and declining
rapidly. She died at 97 so she must have done many things right.


Fish get skin cancer when they are highly exposed, too
[news.sciencemag.org]

The manmade hole in the ozone layer is probably a contributing factor.

arugula wrote:
Fish get skin cancer when they are highly exposed, too
[news.sciencemag.org]

Fish get skin cancer the same as we do, but swimming in all the manmade toxins that then come to the skin/scales surface as skin cancer...The Sun/Light is a poltice. It quickens...

Why do people obsess over looks like it's the definitive factor of how slow or fast one is aging? For example, if you're 100 years old and completely healthy, other than vanity and self-indulgence, what other reason would provoke you to care about every minute detail of your appearance? Sunlight provides many more benefits outside of vitamin D production. I truly cannot believe people let science experiments rule their lives. Science can be very useful, no doubt, but it has its fair share of flaws and limitations. I happen to think intuition and observation are very important as well. Observation as in observing the habits of those who are aging gracefully such as Peter Ragnar, Lou Corona, and David Wolfe. None of those individuals, by the way, are into low-fat - just saying.

Eat a well-planned raw, plant-based diet, consume lots of phytochemicals, exercise, and most importantly, find peace and happiness. This will ensure a long and healthy life.

Radiation
volume 100 D
A review of human carcinogens
[monographs.iarc.fr]

"Epidemiological studies have established a causal association between exposure to solar radiation and all major types of skin cancer."

The IARC has moved UV radiation as a whole (UVA, UVB and UVC) to Group 1. These were all in Group 2 before. (Group 1: The agent is carcinogenic to humans.)

arugula wrote:
"Radiation
volume 100 D
A review of human carcinogens
[monographs.iarc.fr] " blah blah blah

That's because the hu/woman family has removed themselves from nature and weakened themselves by creating and living in an artificial environment. They can no longer handle being in nature, thus the above studies. Do you think the American Indians who did not get skin cancer spend the whole day in their tipees fully clothed?!?

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do people obsess over looks like it's the
> definitive factor of how slow or fast one is
> aging? For example, if you're 100 years old and
> completely healthy, other than vanity and
> self-indulgence, what other reason would provoke
> you to care about every minute detail of your
> appearance? Sunlight provides many more benefits
> outside of vitamin D production. I truly cannot
> believe people let science experiments rule their
> lives. Science can be very useful, no doubt, but
> it has its fair share of flaws and limitations. I
> happen to think intuition and observation are very
> important as well. Observation as in observing the
> habits of those who are aging gracefully such as
> Peter Ragnar, Lou Corona, and David Wolfe. None of
> those individuals, by the way, are into low-fat -
> just saying.
>
> Eat a well-planned raw, plant-based diet, consume
> lots of phytochemicals, exercise, and most
> importantly, find peace and happiness. This will
> ensure a long and healthy life.

well said.

i understand arugula's concern, and i look forward to seeing her china doll skin too!

but you lose a lot of opportunity for fun and enjoyment when you worry about the sun at that level, and resort to hats and sunscreens at the level that it must be required to achieve no damage at all.

To each his or her own. I don't particularly aim for a long life. I do not want the prolonged state of decay. That does not look like fun at all.

Wearing a hat and using sunscreen are habit, it's been decades since I've been doing this. I get a little stressed on those rare occasions when I forget my hat or sunglasses. But that's about it.

When the decay is something you can see, especially from a great distance, it's a bigger deal. At least for many women.

There is a 100-year old Greek Guy in Ikaria named Gregoris Tsahas. He is still very cute, nice strong jaw. I would not mind having his looks and vitality at 100. He never worried about sunscreen but imagine what he might look like if he had? I find the possibilities to be kind of intoxicating.