It's not something that I would do. I'm wondering what others think since I saw a picture of someone in this forum riding a horse.

"Veganism is a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose."

HH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not something that I would do.

Why not?

It's not my style to ride on the back of a broken animal, no matter what justifications people create for doing it. I would feel ridiculous. I'd rather walk or run. However, I am open to hearing why people see it as okay and even adopting that stance. I still wouldn't ride a horse, but I'm flexible and therefore able to have my perspective altered on any topic. Do they make vegan saddles? What's the process of breaking a horse so that it can be ridden? How do humans know that horses enjoy this activity? Do horses like having those shoes put on them? These are the types of questions that I'm asking.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's not something that I would do.
>
> Why not?

When I had my horse I was bussed back and forth from prison (high school) where I was forced to spend my days while the horses got to run around outside and eat all day. I would get off the bus at the stable and spend a lot of time grooming the beast before and after riding. I'd say his days were less cruel than mine were.

I have much more sympathy for desperately poor rickshaw runners in third world countries than I do for horses - even neglected ones.


I know a horse trainer and the main requirement is to be strong as an ox. Other than that there needs be no more cruelty involved than in training any other animal. Like so many other animals, horses can make wonderful service companions for people with several types of disabilities. Service animals are important contributors to life on our planet and I think they take their life's work as seriously a humans who take care of animals take their life's work.

Yes, there is plenty vegan riding gear available for that faction of vegans.

You're not answering my questions or doing anything to prove that the treatment of horses isn't cruel. So pulling a rickshaw sucks. This automatically means that a horse's life is okay based on relative terms? It doesn't mean jack. Same goes for your high school comparison. And can you point me to a vendor who provides a full-line of vegan riding products? I used to work on a farm and would like to buy the proprietor a non-leather saddle and whatever else I can get my hands on. Horses are used as service animals? No, miniature horses are used as service animals.

I think that you're automatically trying to paint me as a vegan who cares more for animals than he does for humans. That's a ridiculous caricature that in no way fits me.

HH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're not answering my questions or doing
> anything to prove that the treatment of horses
> isn't cruel. So pulling a rickshaw sucks. This
> automatically means that a horse's life is okay
> based on relative terms? It doesn't mean jack.
> Same goes for your high school comparison.

I was offering my experience and my take. I don't know why that seems to make you angry at me. Maybe you can find someone else to talk with you.

And can
> you point me to a vendor who provides a full-line
> of vegan riding products? I used to work on a farm
> and would like to buy the proprietor a non-leather
> saddle and whatever else I can get my hands on.

There are many. Here's a start but, quite frankly, I'm not going to put up with your attitude beyond this help ...

[www.themodernequestrian.com]



. > Horses are used as service animals? No, miniature
> horses are used as service animals.

No, it is you who is wrong on this point - but as Hellorodney says, "Do your own homework, I'm not your mother."


>
> I think that you're automatically trying to paint
> me as a vegan who cares more for animals than he
> does for humans.


Actually, when I read this it raised my eyebrow as I wasn't thinking about you at all. I was thinking about the militant vegan activists on Youtube.


That's a ridiculous caricature
> that in no way fits me.


Once again, I was not even thinking of you when I responded. I was thinking of the on beyond PETA radicals. Even PETA ok with horseback riding.

In any case, anyone who wants to get their hands on vegan riding gear can. Just because it seems to make you mad that you have to buy stuff you have no wish to, and perhaps disapprove of, it's misplaced aggression to take it out on people like me. IMO.

I asked a straight-forward question: Is horseback-riding vegan? Did you answer that question? No. Instead I got your advocacy for high school students and rickshaw drivers. Thanks. Yeah, I would prefer not to exchange dialogue with you. Bye.


SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You're not answering my questions or doing
> > anything to prove that the treatment of horses
> > isn't cruel. So pulling a rickshaw sucks. This
> > automatically means that a horse's life is okay
> > based on relative terms? It doesn't mean jack.
> > Same goes for your high school comparison.
>
> I was offering my experience and my take. I don't
> know why that seems to make you angry at me. Maybe
> you can find someone else to talk with you.
>
> And can
> > you point me to a vendor who provides a
> full-line
> > of vegan riding products? I used to work on a
> farm
> > and would like to buy the proprietor a
> non-leather
> > saddle and whatever else I can get my hands on.
>
> There are many. Here's a start but, quite frankly,
> I'm not going to put up with your attitude beyond
> this help ...
>
> [www.themodernequestrian.com]
> questrian.httm
>
>
>
> . > Horses are used as service animals? No,
> miniature
> > horses are used as service animals.
>
> No, it is you who is wrong on this point - but as
> Hellorodney says, "Do your own homework, I'm not
> your mother."
>
>
> >
> > I think that you're automatically trying to
> paint
> > me as a vegan who cares more for animals than
> he
> > does for humans.
>
>
> Actually, when I read this it raised my eyebrow as
> I wasn't thinking about you at all. I was thinking
> about the militant vegan activists on Youtube.
>
>
> That's a ridiculous caricature
> > that in no way fits me.
>
>
> Once again, I was not even thinking of you when I
> responded. I was thinking of the on beyond PETA
> radicals. Even PETA ok with horseback riding.
>
> In any case, anyone who wants to get their hands
> on vegan riding gear can. Just because it seems
> to make you mad that you have to buy stuff you
> have no wish to, and perhaps disapprove of, it's
> misplaced aggression to take it out on people like
> me. IMO.

Yikes, HH, that's real normal. Good luck on your quest to find what you don't really want. It's out there and you can find it.


(As an aside to those who are not the frothing OP here) Anyone else noticing that this full moon period seems to have outed all the the emotionally unstable coo coos more than the average full moon period? Yikes.

I don't think horseback riding is a very 'vegan' activity. Typically, vegans try to reduce their reliance on animals and animal exploitation as much as possible. There is absolutely no valid reason in this day and age to ride a horse. I don't doubt that some individual horses and certain individual humans can form very strong bonds, but I don't think that means the horse necessarily wants the human sitting in the middle of it's back for hours on end. I too have fond childhood memories of riding, but looking at it from the horses perspective, I don't think they found it very fun or amusing. There are definitely better activities to do for recreation and fun that do not involve using animals for transportation or recreation.

It's not ethical, and definitely cruel. If I was a horse I wouldn't want nails and metal fittings on my feet, and having to live with them day and night - imagine having to wear shoes 24/7 and never being able to take them off. I also wouldn't want to be carrying people around all day. And who wants to be neutered!

Maybe the picture was accidentally cropped and the person had a wagon hitched to it and they were returning from the farmers market with a wagon full of fruit - good karma for the fruit to balance the bad karma from exploiting the horse.

"Barefoot vs. Shod?
It depends..."



"In summary, many barefoot proponents have taken an extremist view that shoes and nails start the feet on a destructive road, purporting this belief without looking at the overall scientific and physiologic picture. There are advocates of the barefoot movement that claim through their research that applying shoes to the horse is detrimental and therefore all horses need to be barefoot. This research claims that nails placed in a horse's foot are toxic, that the bars in the heels should be removed as they impinge on the circulation and that all horses should be trimmed in the same specified manner. Yet I have never been able to find this research. I have never seen a scientific publication that states nails are toxic when placed in a horse's foot. If we think of the hoof capsule as a cone – one quickly sees the necessity of preserving the bars as they provide stability and allow the hoof capsule to expand which in turn allows the normal physiology of the foot to take place. Finally, if we consider the various breeds of horses, individual foot conformation, structures of the foot, phalangeal alignment, etc, it would appear highly unreasonable to trim all horses in the same manner. As all horses are not created equal, neither are their feet. Shoes have been known to cause lameness and change the hoof capsule; shoes have also been documented to treat lameness and improve the structures of the hoof. So when we decide whether a horse can be kept barefoot (and many can't), considering the variables involved, the answer may be "it depends"."

[www.equipodiatry.com]

Yeah because not wanting your input must make me "emotionally unstable." I've been called crazy by some actual heavy-hitters, myself included. Getting it from an illogical spinster means nothing. Nice try though, toots.

Here's a tip: Rickshaw driving being difficult does not = horseback riding is okay according to vegan ethos. High school being oppressive does not = horseback riding is okay according to vegan ethos. I don't think that you're particularly bright, but I certainly never expected you to deal in such low-level logical fallacies. You bore me. Go wash your bloomers, Mildred.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yikes, HH, that's real normal. Good luck on your
> quest to find what you don't really want. It's out
> there and you can find it.
>
>
> (As an aside to those who are not the frothing OP
> here) Anyone else noticing that this full moon
> period seems to have outed all the the emotionally
> unstable coo coos more than the average full moon
> period? Yikes.

HH, you truly are a bat @#$%& crazy frothing basket case at least half of the time but, nevertheless, overlooking that and your lost in the sauce dimwittedness, I am sure you will find much of the vegan riding gear you profess to be looking for, (and asked me to help you with finding), at the link I provided for you. If you can't find your way out of that dark abyss where you are to making use of that linked site perhaps some other reader will find it useful and I haven't completely wasted my time posting it for you.

LOL.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HH, you truly are a bat @#$%& crazy frothing
> basket case at least half of the time but,
> nevertheless, overlooking that and your lost in
> the sauce dimwittedness, I am sure you will find
> much of the vegan riding gear you profess to be
> looking for, (and asked me to help you with
> finding), at the link I provided for you. If you
> can't find your way out of that dark abyss where
> you are to making use of that linked site perhaps
> some other reader will find it useful and I
> haven't completely wasted my time posting it for
> you.

When I was a kid we had alot of horses. They were always happy to see us and liked being ridden. At one time we kept them on a place where they had about 10 square miles of low mountains they could roam. Whenever we drove out and found them they would come right over to see us, be saddled up, and go riding. A friend of ours had a colt whose mother died. To give him all the bottle feeding he needed they took him into their home, house broke him, and kept him as a house pet for over a year. A super mellow horse! When you went out to catch him he would come right over and open his mouth so the bit could be put right in.

HH,

that was weird. you asked a question, suez responded to none of your questions even though ostensibly she was engaged in a conversation with you.

then she says she was " thinking about the militant vegan activists on Youtube. "

and the

" on beyond PETA radicals. "

trouble focusing i guess.

then she pops off another batshitcrazy knee jerk.

the reason she didn't respond to your issues is because it's not possible to do so since it's coercing the animal and therefore unethical, as the other posters said, and as you implied. well, i'm off to ride my great dane. ta ta toots.

When our horses were up in the mountains with the neighbors horses they formed a herd of about 15. Their lives weren't all that different from wild horses in nature. They had many miles to roam. The only difference was they had some human friends that came up every week or two to play with them for a few hours. They chose to come to us to have some different sort of fun for a few hours. They could have easily run far away.

I took my pic down. sorry to hurt you. Here is apuppy party I hope it makes up

LOL. No one was hurt. You're just a controversial figure.

suvine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I took my pic down. sorry to hurt you. Here is
> apuppy party I hope it makes up
> [s15-us2.ixquick.com]
> =http%3A%2F%2Fts3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DJN.WWs8S
> wunDPrbDV7w8vVXZw%26pid%3D15.1%26H%3D213%26W%3D160
> &sp=9939bde909d1ffdf45afd84b5c78d7a7

Its ok, I love you guys and am here for you all.

I've been vegan a long time and was never totally sure how I felt about horse riding until I tried it a few years back where I was put in a situation on holiday where I had to go from A to B and horseback was the only option.

The horses were being ridden by mostly inexperienced riders and they were out of control and seemed distressed. I felt very sorry for them. After that I decided I never wanted to ride a horse again and was a bit angry at myself because I knew I felt uncomfortable with it for good reason.

I know there are more ethical scenarios, but lets face it- horses have far better things to do than carry us around. Their purpose for living isn't for transport.

Is buying anything generating profits for those who eat meat or use animal products in any form, vegan?


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

In my opinion, riding horses is definitely not vegan, just like riding camels in the desert or riding any other animals, especially when done for fun. Just like killing wild animals for the prize, like a hunting competition. Just like circus. Just like zoos. It's a form of animal exploitation just like any other. I'm totally against it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

I agree. I boycott horse races, highly glamorized here in Australia, there is even a public holiday here to celebrate one. Not me.

brome Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When our horses were up in the mountains with the
> neighbors horses they formed a herd of about 15.
> Their lives weren't all that different from wild
> horses in nature. They had many miles to roam.
> The only difference was they had some human
> friends that came up every week or two to play
> with them for a few hours. They chose to come to
> us to have some different sort of fun for a few
> hours. They could have easily run far away.

Beautiful stories, Brome! Thanks for posting them.

Brome's stories are the huge exception, not the norm. The overwhelming majority of horse owners don't possess mountain acreage for their horses to roam.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> brome Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When our horses were up in the mountains with
> the
> > neighbors horses they formed a herd of about 15.
>
> > Their lives weren't all that different from
> wild
> > horses in nature. They had many miles to roam.
> > The only difference was they had some human
> > friends that came up every week or two to play
> > with them for a few hours. They chose to come
> to
> > us to have some different sort of fun for a few
> > hours. They could have easily run far away.
>
> Beautiful stories, Brome! Thanks for posting
> them.

Kudos to this superb athlete, and his human assistants, for his astounding triumph!!!

[www.youtube.com]

Do I need to go research abuses in the horse-racing industry now, or can I assume that all of us are already well-versed on that topic?

Why the need to crap on ethical vegans? Maybe John Rose is right about you.


SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kudos to this superb athlete, and his human
> assistants, for his astounding triumph!!!
>
> [www.youtube.com]

Suez was running at Belmont yesterday but she came in last. In the words of her jockey she was a "stubborn old critter, an ornery old cuss who couldn't run even if you light a fire under her tail". Her owner said he was giving her away for free but so far no takers.

Wow did you see the triple crown winner today- so pretty! So beautiful.


I love horses. All my life. I even rode in Iceland, France all over Switzerland. In Puerto Rico instead of cars, everyone has a horse tied to their house. They will always be domesticated, very few live in the wild. I had a chance recently to live with two horses, in exchange for partial rent, I would have to take care of, that used to be a celebrity's- but I didnt take the house for other reasons. They are everywhere out here and its what the kids do out in the country, horseback riders all all on our streets and we have tons on our street alone, when I walk I feed them sometimes.

Little girls and horses are kind of hand in hand. Also when you have a farm. Its just part of life.

They say in some book, Germs Guns and Steel that white man took over the world because they had horses, cows, sheep and steel and germs.

But I can say I would never own a horse I could not take care of. I just love them. They are so regal!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2015 12:19AM by suvine.