coco Wrote:
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> "God provided sheep to provide wool for clothing and other products. And yes they DO get very uncomfortable if they were never sheared. We are not killing and EATING the sheep, but simply using what they give to us. God made bees to create honey. God made worms to create silk."

> wow, that kind of thinking is so baffling to me. i consider humans to be the caregivers, the stewards of the earth, not the owners. it's only my opinion but i have a hard time believing that G_d/Mother Nature intended sheep, bees and silk worms to exist purely for the pleasure and convenience of humankind, or at all for that matter. they have their own lives to pursue that have nothing to do with us IMO.


---Furthermore, the same applies to plants..., it is why a "fruitaian" thinks that it is cruel to eat a plant, as also plants do feel, and are not here just for a human pleasure and exploitation "given" to a human by "God" to be eaten and consumed. In this regard, eating only a plant's fruit, not its seed, letting it be undestroyed, is a more compassionate way of living...

coco Wrote:
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> "God provided sheep to provide wool for clothing
> and other products. And yes they DO get very
> uncomfortable if they were never sheared. We are
> not killing and EATING the sheep, but simply using
> what they give to us. God made bees to create
> honey. God made worms to create silk."
>
> wow, that kind of thinking is so baffling to me. i
> consider humans to be the caregivers, the stewards
> of the earth, not the owners. it's only my opinion
> but i have a hard time believing that G_d/Mother
> Nature intended sheep, bees and silk worms to
> exist purely for the pleasure and convenience of
> humankind, or at all for that matter. they have
> their own lives to pursue that have nothing to do
> with us IMO.
> a note: silk worms are boiled alive in their
> cocoons to remove the silk strands.


Coco - Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I did not mean that God created those things to provide services for US as humans, and I completely agree that humans were given the charge to care-for the innocent animals on this earth. My comment didn't come out right and I'm glad you clarified it better for me. =) I simply meant that God provided a way for some people to have warm clothing and fabric materials from the wool that is (humanely) sheared from the sheep. I didn't mean that was the ONLY reason they were put on this earth. As long as the sheep are not abused or harmed and the shearing is done properly and at the right time, the wool can be put to good use. (I'm putting aside the discussion of "vegan vs. non-vegan at the moment. *grin*) So I'm glad you clarified that for me in a better way. =)

I also did not know exactly HOW the silk was harvested from the worms and did not know that it required in-humane abuse of the creatures. Had I known that, I would have boycotted silk as well!! Call me ignorant (ok, I'm calling MYSELF that! *LOL*), but I just thought they spun the silk from a substance produced by the worms themselves. I never realized that it was from BOILING the poor little creatures. =*( But I'm glad the other poster provided information for HUMANELY-harvested silk, so that makes me feel better. =)

Thanks for helping me to put into better words what I was trying to say, but it somehow comes out wrong. =(

I also appreciate the very friendly and non-judgemental and balanced opinions by EVERYONE on this subject (and that of the "vegan" definition). This forum is awesome!! =)

*****************************
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
—Thomas Jefferson

wicked. you rock.

justin1 Wrote:
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>
>
> ---Furthermore, the same applies to plants..., it
> is why a "fruitaian" thinks that it is cruel to
> eat a plant, as also plants do feel, and are not
> here just for a human pleasure and exploitation
> "given" to a human by "God" to be eaten and
> consumed. In this regard, eating only a plant's
> fruit, not its seed, letting it be undestroyed, is
> a more compassionate way of living...


If you really felt this way -- about not eating a fruit's seed -- wouldn't you leave the fruit in its natural state then and allow the seed to grow when the environment was right for it. Eating fruit destroys the fruit's seed. I think that sometimes we can take this a bit too far.

Do you use cotton products? As far as I know we destroy the cotton seed when cotton is harvested.

Molli Wrote:
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If you really felt this way -- about not eating a fruit's seed -- wouldn't you leave the fruit in its natural state then and allow the seed to grow when the environment was right for it. Eating fruit destroys the fruit's seed. I think that sometimes we can take this a bit too far. Do you use cotton products? As far as I know we destroy the cotton seed when cotton is harvested.


---yes, I REALLY feel this way, that consuming only the plant's fruit and not destroying plant itself, is a less violent - more compassionate way of living.

justin1 Wrote:
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> Molli Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> If you really felt this way -- about not eating a
> fruit's seed -- wouldn't you leave the fruit in
> its natural state then and allow the seed to grow
> when the environment was right for it. Eating
> fruit destroys the fruit's seed. I think that
> sometimes we can take this a bit too far. Do you
> use cotton products? As far as I know we destroy
> the cotton seed when cotton is harvested.
>
>
> ---yes, I REALLY feel this way, that consuming
> only the plant's fruit and not destroying plant
> itself, is a less violent - more compassionate way
> of living.

I understand what you are saying, But you mentioned about eating the fruit but not destroying the fruit's seed. How do you go about that?