How did humans get the necessary B-12 vitamins before vitamins were marketed?

Personally, I don't care whether 100% raw was or was not the diet for humans thousands of years ago, I just care that raw is extremely healthy NOWADAYS and that is my reason for switching to raw just a short time ago.

Why did you switch to raw?

One reason I've written about here: [jonmcgrath.blogspot.com]

For B-12, consider that chimpanzees are mostly vegan as well. They only eat meat in cases of famine. So, that leaves three possibilities for their sources (assuming that their rare bouts of meat-eating isn't the source):

1) organisms in the soil on their food
2) insects on their food eaten unintentially or intentially
3) the possibility that they can produce their own B-12 (read below)

You see, the question begs: if we get our B-12 from animals, where to they get it from? Its produced by bacteria in their intestinal tract. One theory on why we can't make it now is that an unnatural diet has caused our intestinal flora to become damanged or depleted, therefore hindering our ability to produce B-12. One might conclude that returning to a natural diet would restore this ability. If not, then I believe the first two I listed would be our sources in "nature". Heh, I figure most would opt for a supplement though.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2009 03:20PM by eecho.

B-12 if found in all animals. The B-12 comes from bacteria in those animals.

Humans are animals too

Simple and to the point Bryan... Awesome!

I agree, however any living thing can be deficient. If you don't have the bacteria to produce the product, you don't have the product. So there are actually a few complications to consider. I believe we have the potential to regain that simplicity though, by healing.

It's fairly well established that humans and other primates produce their B12 in an area of the colon where the B12 is too low to be absorbed. That's not the case for deer and other "herbivore" species.

B12 is however contained in primate feces, and primates in the wild often consume their own feces in addition to consuming insects and small animals.

In the articles section of this website, Gabriel Cousens has referred to a study showing that human consumption of their own feces can reverse B12 deficiency.[www.rawfoods.com]

Reversing a B12 deficiency is considered the reliable test for whether a food source is capable of supplying sufficient B12. So far, no plant source has been able to do that - for anybody, including vegans and raw food vegans.

It's true that there are 2 possible causes of B12 deficiency: an inability to absorb B12, often requiring B12 injections, and insufficient B12 in the diet.

Check also [www.vegansociety.com].

According to the Dalai Lama, it's always best to not allow a personal philosphy to obstruct our understanding of the truth. That is one of the most important bases in buddhist theory of logic, and I believe it applies well in this circumstance.

In my personal opinion, what is "natural" for the advanced human being is what is "humane". Our bodies are not perfect! We are evolving.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2009 07:43PM by suncloud.

In my post above, I said, "It's true that there are 2 possible causes of B12 deficiency." The 2 causes are (1)an inability to absorb B12, often requiring B12 injections; and (2)insufficient B12 in the diet."

These 2 causes are very well-established, and there is absolutey zero evidence to the contrary. Either cause can result in deficiency, independent of the other. (Malabsorption is a result of poor health, and this is the case in many older meateaters.)

Due to a condition of malabsorption, meateaters often require B12 injections for reversal of deficiency. However, vegan deficiency is most often reversed by consuming B12 supplements or B12-fortified foods. To my knowledge, there are no raw B12-fortified foods. B12-fortified nutritional yeast, soy milk, etc. are not raw foods. Raw food vegans who get sufficient B12 in their diet, usually do so by taking supplements.

Some vegan foods list B12 as a nutrient on their label (like spirulina). This B12 has been shown to be actually a B12 "analog" - a false B12 - that can actually inhibit B12 absorption by attaching to B12 receptor cites.

Hope I got that all correct. Everybody should research this themselves, thoroughly, without biased preconception!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2009 08:14PM by suncloud.

Another way to get vitamin B12 is from fruit that is grown completely organically and eaten right after it's picked.

The microorganisms should have produced enough bacteria and vitamin B12 on it provided it wasn't tampered with in any way. I think this is probably one of the main ways we're supposed to get our vitamin b12 naturally... however maybe it's not possible this way in this day and age unfortunately.

I would say that raw is much more natural a diet than what I just saw on a commercial...........
A large triple meat pizza,breadsticks,and chocolate cake dippers with chocolate sauce,and a 2 liter regular coke.
Good lord.
Have mercy.

Vinny

Vinny, you made me chuckle. Thanks.

SuperInfinity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another way to get vitamin B12 is from fruit that
> is grown completely organically and eaten right
> after it's picked.
>
> The microorganisms should have produced enough
> bacteria and vitamin B12 on it provided it wasn't
> tampered with in any way.

That would be ideal, if it were absolutely true. Although organic fruits (and vegetables) have perhaps more B12 than conventionally grown foods, the amount is still not sufficient to prevent or reverse deficiency. Raw food vegans often consume more organic produce than most people, and still become B12-deficient.

And the amount of B12 in any food is dependent upon the amount of cobalt in the soil where the food is grown (and of course the number of bugs in the food).

Growing organic fruits (many varieties), has been a pasttime and income for me for a couple of decades. Still, after 15 years raw vegan and no supplements, I developed a B12 deficiency that was reversed after about a month of supplementing.

Some of us (like me) learn the hard way, but let's hope we're fortunate enough to have recognizable symptoms while they're still reversible.

Definitely, vegan kids - especially breastfeeding infants whose mom's may be low in B12 - should supplement, because symptoms for kids are more often irreversible than for adults.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2009 03:04AM by suncloud.

Vinny,
"I would say that raw is much more natural a diet than what I just saw on a commercial...........
A large triple meat pizza,breadsticks,and chocolate cake dippers with chocolate sauce,and a 2 liter regular coke.
Good lord.
Have mercy. "
This made my day it was HILLARIOUS! and SO TRUE!
"Good lord have mercy"
Excellent! Thank you for the funny!

roadrunner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vinny,
> "I would say that raw is much more natural a diet
> than what I just saw on a commercial...........
> A large triple meat pizza,breadsticks,and
> chocolate cake dippers with chocolate sauce,and a
> 2 liter regular coke.
> Good lord.
> Have mercy. "
> This made my day it was HILLARIOUS! and SO TRUE!
> "Good lord have mercy"
> Excellent! Thank you for the funny!

I found it funny as well. But many people would actually flip it around and find us funny for baulking at the idea.

I've used the drug analogy before but it's worth using it again because it helped me and it can help them understand. Sure you can have people who look healthy, are fairly thin, feel fine and so on who are on cooked foods. The same could be said for people who are on hard drugs!

Suncloud, thank you for sharing your experience. You might have to supplement a little but I do feel it's because of an inherent loss of vitamin b12 from the fruits or from our own digestion... I'm not saying that organic will solve it either as they're not freshly picked one minute ago. But our ancestors must have gotten their vitamin b12 some how, I'm not sure how.

It's not an "appeal to nature" as the silly people put it, it's an appeal to logic and intelligence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2009 02:16AM by SuperInfinity.

In the Bible it says that humans used to live a thousand years lifespan. Something happened to change that. I have wondered if that change had to do with digestion of cooked food after the discovery of fire ? If that were to be the case maybe B12 used to be naturally manufactured in the colon but a change occurred in human physiology ?

Who knows? Could be. Maybe we'll never know.

What interests me is what we humans will become as we continue to evolve. I prefer to think that the entire human race is continually growing and evolving toward something better as we move on through the ages, lifetimes, planets, dimensions, etc.

Things may seem kind of bleak right now - considering deforestation, nuclear power, contaminated water, global warming, poverty, pollution, etc. (pretty bad stuff!), but maybe it's just a stage we're going through. A learning cycle.

Maybe we'll see better B12 absorption in the children of those who ate very healthy in pregnancy, and fed their kids right from birth. Maybe most people have problems absorbing it because their bodies didn't form right due to poor nutrition in the womb and through infancy and childhood.

You are welcome.
But seriously I wonder what the kind of meal I mentioned does to a persons blood sugar.It was a real commercial.And not the worst I have seen either.

Vinny

Survival in the 21st century is very apt right now. Depends where you live, without electricity, a lot of people will be hungry real quick. Hungry. I would be more able to live on very little now, having been rawish for a few months. I am honest, I used to go for that junk once in a while, too often, ;( For me it was, is a mental thing, an awakening to the possibility of, living as nature intended. Just because everyone ls doing it wrong, doesn't make it right.
Peace