I found this clip this morning while I was looking at the different kinds of greens, like boc choy,collard,argula,mustard,kale etc and I found THIS in the search! There were THREE items in this clip that bother me and the rest I dont eat anyway ,and that was SPINACH raw and CAULIFLOWER/BROCOLLI raw. I eat those 3 raw but after reading this maybe not now.
HOWEVER at the bottom of the clip it says "ripe fruit is friendly and loves to be eaten and have its seeds widely dispersed "
I think what its saying is plants have a natural defense mechanism and thats why some of them shouldnt be eaten raw,but cooking them breaks this down. Ive ate plenty of spinach and cauliflower/brocolli raw and Im still here...

[forums.chef2chef.net]

I think that things eaten in a balanced way, with variety, will neutralize what could be the bad effects which the article spoke about.

I have heard of people who set their thyroid all out of kilter by eating kale in huge quantities day after day after day..in smoothies..

But they ate a LOT , and they ate it for months on end, daily..

From what i understand, if we are moderate and use lots of variety daily ( well, as much as we are able ) we will avoid lots of the problems which repeated,gluttonous, use of foods might bring upon our kidneys, or whatever..

just my thoughts on the subject.. I have wondered if those things were true as i read them.. and i HAVE read in a forum, of a girl who just over did things on a raw diet and actually did make herself quite sick.

alice

Well now this makes the 811 diet make more sense to me now. It just recommends fruit in the day and greens for dinner, not veggies?
Ive never read 811, but romaine and celery doesnt have inhibiters like that,(defence inhibiters)
but tomatoes do, and tomatoes are nightshades, I know if I eat to many tomatoes they bother my throat, so it makes me wonder about the nightshade thing.
Same with peppers, if I eat to many they bother my throat , to better explain it
I have gone temporarily "horse" and kinda hard to swallow, but it wears off fairly soon. But that too may just be an allergy?
This is why I think its best for the individual person to experience for him/her-self different foods as to how one reacts to them.
And for me the best way to do this is after a fast when the body is clean, even just a 24-36 hour fast will work for me, after a fast, the bodys senses
and instincts are most sensative.
I only go "horse" if I over eat tomatoes or peppers and I dont need to over eat.
The last time this happened I litterally ate about 3 large tomatoes because I love raw tomatoes,LOL!
And I went horse for a while.But it wore off fairly soon and I was fine.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2009 05:33PM by roadrunner.

roadrunner,

I am a trained cook and I read the OP thinking, well, you are certainly buttering your own bread there, buddy. Chefs would be out of work if people stopped eating cooked food. That's what we're taught to make in school. So it stands to reason the OP would be against eating these things raw : )

Well yea I forgot about that Tamukha youre right!
Its all about money, everything is.

A trained cook... that must have made the change even harder than normal. Oh well, you've made quite a journey. I think some people such as farmers or brewers can't handle that what they did might make people worse off... it's sad that they cling to it like that, good job on overcoming it.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> roadrunner,
>
> I am a trained cook and I read the OP thinking,
> well, you are certainly buttering your own bread
> there, buddy. Chefs would be out of work if
> people stopped eating cooked food. That's what
> we're taught to make in school. So it stands to
> reason the OP would be against eating these things
> raw : )



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2009 02:03AM by SuperInfinity.

I've heard and read that there are people who say that cooking spinach actually activates the oxalic acid so that it binds with iron, thus preventing absorbtion. I searched the internet and here are a few things I found. Seems the prevailing argument is that raw spinach is the culprit, not the cooked stuff. But, according to raw fooder "experts" cooking denatures so many things that whatever benefits accrue from cooking are laid flat by the harm done.

Here's one against raw spinach. I've excerpted a paragraph from the short article here
[www.articlesbase.com]

Spinach contains oxalic acid, also called oxalates, which combines with the iron and inhibits its absorption. Oxalic acid also binds with calcium, creating calcium oxalate and inhibits the absorption of calcium. If there is not enough calcium in the diet, the oxalic acid will combine with the calcium in the kidneys and form kidney stones. Therefore, eating raw spinach on a regular basis increases the risk of kidney stones.

Cooking spinach breaks down the oxalates and prevents the formation of un-absorbable mineral complexes in the body.

As for the calcium, this says that "if there isn't enough calcium in the diet", right? So, eat a well balanced raw diet and you'll probably get enough calcium. I remember reading in 811 that eating SAD taxes the amount of calcium because of all the acidifying foods in SAD. So, limiting the acidifying raw foods as well, we should be fine with respect to calcium. At least, if these people that I'm referring to know what they're talking about, then, this seems to me to be the case. Eat a high raw alkaline diet and don't worry about this and that nutrient.

Here's one in favor of raw spinach. I'll quote the part from Gabriel Cousens.
[www.rawfoodtalk.com]

I don't think you can have too much so long as it's raw. Here is a quote from Gabriel Cousin's book, Conscious Eating:

Organic oxalic acid, defined as that which occurs in nature in its raw form, can actually be beneficial to the system. Once foods containing oxalic acid are cooked, according to the dean of juice therapy and author of Raw Vegetable Juices, Dr. Norman Walker, the oxalic acid becomes dead and irritating substance to the system. He feels that in its cooked form it binds irreversibly with the calcium and prevents calcium absorption. An excess of cooked oxalic acid may also form oxalic acid crystals in the kidney. In the live organic form of oxalic acid, Dr. Walker claims oxalic acid stones and calcium blockage do not occur because the organic oxalic acid can be metabolized appropriately. according to Dr. Walker, oxalic acid in its raw form is one of the important minerals needed to maintain tone and peristalsis of the bowel.
He also says no to worry about phytates in raw food. The body produces an enzyme called phytase that frees minerals from phytates. This does not work for cooked phytates because it has been denatured and the enzyme no longer fits it well enough to do its job.

There shouldn't be side effects of too much oxalates so long as the food is raw. It's the cooked you need to worry about and then, you could probably get kidney stones and osteoporosis.

Troy.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

there is a great article by viktoria boutenko somewhere regarding rotating greens in the diet. i have searched unsuccessfully, maybe someone else has the link? it was very positive and practical instead of alarmist and negative for a change

Superinfinity wrote


"A trained cook... that must have made the change even harder than normal. Oh well, you've made quite a journey. I think some people such as farmers or brewers can't handle that what they did might make people worse off... it's sad that they cling to it like that, good job on overcoming it. "

I'm so glad that Dr. Campbell made that journey - The China Study.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2009 01:17PM by flipperjan.

I agree. China Study. Great book!

And speaking of which, Dr. Campbell found that although aflatoxin (mentioned in the link) is a carcinogen, it has little to no carcinogenic effect without the consumption of meat protein, which promotes cancer.

I wouldn't be surprised to find a similar correlation for other "toxic" effects of raw vegetables. It will be interesting to see, over the years, how well raw food vegans are able to retain their health. Too bad there aren't more studies that apply only to raw food vegans.

Hi

Here's an article on spinach and the oxalic acid thing. If you're eating spinach in moderation, raw, there should be no cause for concern.

[debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com]